Al-Qaeda founder attacks OBL

[phykell]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/4736358/Al-Qaeda-founder-launches-fierce-attack-on-Osama-bin-Laden.html

One of al-Qaeda's founding leaders, Dr Fadl, has begun an ideological revolt against Osama bin Laden, blaming him for "every drop" of blood spilt in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sayyid Imam al-Sharif, who goes by the nom de guerre Dr Fadl, helped bin Laden create al-Qaeda and then led an Islamist insurgency in Egypt in the 1990s.

Today, however, he believes the murder of innocent people is both contrary to Islam and a strategic error. "Every drop of blood that was shed or is being shed in Afghanistan and Iraq is the responsibility of bin Laden and Zawahiri and their followers," writes Dr Fadl.

The terrorist attacks on September 11 were both immoral and counterproductive, he writes. "Ramming America has become the shortest road to fame and leadership among the Arabs and Muslims. But what good is it if you destroy one of your enemy's buildings, and he destroys one of your countries? What good is it if you kill one of his people, and he kills a thousand of yours?" asks Dr Fadl. "That, in short, is my evaluation of 9/11."

He is equally unsparing about Muslims who move to the West and then take up terrorism. "If they gave you permission to enter their homes and live with them, and if they gave you security for yourself and your money, and if they gave you the opportunity to work or study, or they granted you political asylum," writes Dr Fadl, then it is "not honourable" to "betray them, through killing and destruction".

[cleanbluesky]

Interesting, perhaps now that G Bush has passed they feel they can take a more reflective view to what they've achieved over the last decade. I found a video of another prominent arab saying that the invasion of Iraq was a fantastic thing, simply because arabs are so poor at instituting democracy. Despite the current flaring of gaza, perhaps the agression has gone out of the Islam vs the West debate

[semi-pro waster]

Interesting article, thanks for the link. That's somewhat heartening to see, particularly when a lot of people criticise Muslims for failing to denounce terrorism, whether it achieves anything is another matter but it is a start.

[cleanbluesky]

Interesting article, thanks for the link. That's somewhat heartening to see, particularly when a lot of people criticise Muslims for failing to denounce terrorism, whether it achieves anything is another matter but it is a start.

Think of the Muslims! Not sure it is really a fine example of a Muslim denouncing terrorism in the way that you're talking about, given that he was actually in Al Qaeda.

[semi-pro waster]

Think of the Muslims! Not sure it is really a fine example of a Muslim denouncing terrorism in the way that you're talking about, given that he was actually in Al Qaeda.

I'd have to disagree. That is, if anything, a better example than most other people denouncing terrorism. Someone who has actually been a member of such an organisation and now realises how futile and backward it is.

[phykell]

Think of the Muslims! Not sure it is really a fine example of a Muslim denouncing terrorism in the way that you're talking about, given that he was actually in Al Qaeda.
What more do you want? Allah himself appearing and condeming OBL? The guy we're talking about, the one who is the subject of the article, is no less than a founding leader of Al-Qaeda!

It seems you want the moon on a stick as far as Muslims being able to offer anything positive.

[Mark]

One thing you can be sure of. Criticism by one of his own will have stung far more than anything any of us (including Bush/Obama) could ever say. The fact that Zawahiri found it necessary to personally issue a 200-page rebuttal tells us much about how it has been received. The most Bush ever got was a tirade of threats issued on some Islamist website or sent to Al Jazeera for broadcast.

[cleanbluesky]

What more do you want? Allah himself appearing and condeming OBL? The guy we're talking about, the one who is the subject of the article, is no less than a founding leader of Al-Qaeda!

I already said its great, although you don't seem to have focussed on that. My comment was against the idea of people who want Muslims to speak out against terrorism. I don't care whether Muslims speak out or not, although many have caled in the past because they believed that 'moderate' Muslims didn't care about terrorism. I don't think the OP is a fine example of a moderate Muslim.

It seems you want the moon on a stick as far as Muslims being able to offer anything positive.

Quitting a organisation that has killed thousands is more mixed than positive. Besides, I already said it was great.

EDIT: I already inferred it was great, but didn't express it directly. I think its great.

[phykell]

I think once the extremist is calling for terrorism to stop it's definitely a step in the right direction. If anything then, it's better that he isn't what you'd call a "moderate" :)

Isn't it a shame that it takes a thread on a forum to make people aware that such an event has happened though? The only reason I know about it is because an American told me about it! How come it isn't on the mainstream news? Has anyone seen it mentioned on TV at all? :confused:

[luke]

yes but the us need someone to blame for there on going occupations etc

[Mark]

Isn't that George W Bush?

[cleanbluesky]

I think once the extremist is calling for terrorism to stop it's definitely a step in the right direction. If anything then, it's better that he isn't what you'd call a "moderate" :)

I don't call them moderates, they're all the same to me unless I know them personally.

Isn't it a shame that it takes a thread on a forum to make people aware that such an event has happened though? The only reason I know about it is because an American told me about it! How come it isn't on the mainstream news? Has anyone seen it mentioned on TV at all? :confused:

It is, although I think in isolation it doesn't mean much but it might help paint a picture of the collective attitude amongst Islamists at the moment. It's not the first time I've heard Muslims much more receptive to the West, although that is something I realised was possible a few years ago after my first visit to a Muslim country. I realised that their perception of us wasn't so much anger and hatred, but a broken respect - they see us as politically and technologically advanced although that 'power' comes with a responsibility to ensure that we bring those around as on as well - rather than bomb them aimlessly.

[AboveTheSalt]

Whilst he criticises the September 11th attacks as both immoral and counter-productive, he appears to have a less than wonderful view of America"Ramming America has become the shortest road to fame and leadership among the Arabs and Muslims. But what good is it if you destroy one of your enemy's buildings, and he destroys one of your countries? What good is it if you kill one of his people, and he kills a thousand of yours?"


Whilst I can see the justification in the case of Afghanistan, I am intrigued to learn that Sayyid Imam al-Sharif has joined the American bandwagon that the invasion of Iraq had something to do with bin Laden, Zawahiri and their followers.


Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know the current whereabouts of Sayyid Imam al-Sharif? I believe that he was in prison in Egypt a year ago although that is perhaps entirely coincidental. There is a long article about him HERE (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/06/02/080602fa_fact_wright?currentPage=all)