Help me lose weight please fitness guru types.

[Stan_Lite]

I weighed myself a few weeks ago and, to my horror, I was 17st 2lbs - the heaviest I've ever been. I've been a fat chap for several years now but it hasn't really bothered me until now.

I started off at home by eating better food (and less of it) and doing a bit of walking and it seemed to be working fine. I lost a stone in 3 weeks. Then I went on holiday for a week with my brother and put 4lbs back on due to drinking beer and doing sod all. I wasn't bothered about that as I expected it. I got back and the following day I had to head off out to work (for those who don't know, I work 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off on an oil rig in Egypt). I got to the rig on Sunday and I had dropped 2 of the pounds I'd gained on holiday, so all was well.

I decided it was time to get serious about it so I started watching what I eat and decided to use the limited facilities in the gym on the rig. I started using the treadmill and got a bit of a buzz out of it.

Now we get to the bit where I need advice. I started off doing 1 hour sessions at approx 70-75% (145-150bpm) of my max heart rate (180bpm). I've done this for 3 nights now and when I stood on the scales this morning ... lo and behold, I'd GAINED 3lbs in 3 days :confused:
I've done a bit of looking around on teh interweb and read somewhere that if you start exercising hard after a long spell of no exercise (sounds about right) your muscles can sometimes store fluid to help repair themselves or it may just be natural water retention which will go away on it's own. If anybody has any ideas, I'd appreciate some advice.

I think I've probably started off too enthusiastically and have been thinking I'll have a break tonight and then cut down to 1/2 hour sessions to start with and build up a bit more slowly. What do you guys think?

A few details to help you:

Age - 43 years.
Height - 5'10" = 1.78m
Current weight - 229lbs = 16st 5lbs = 104kgs
Cigarettes - 20 a day

Typical day's eating on the rig
Breakfast (05:30) - bowl of bran flakes with milk (only full fat milk on the rig unfortunately), 1 glass of apple juice and 1 cup black coffee.
Tea break (09:00) - 1 small slice sponge cake and 1 cup black coffee.
Lunch (12:00) - 2 small (or one medium) chicken portion, 1 medium baked spud, salad and a piece of fruit.
Afternoon break (15:00) - 1 piece fruit.
Dinner (18:00) - 1 bowl soup, chunk of bread and more fruit.
After workout (21:00) - 2 pieces fruit.
I normally drink about 2-3 litres of water throughout the day.

If anybody can give me a few pointers, I'd be most grateful.

Also, can anyone recommend me a good heart rate monitor - I don't trust the one on the treadmill on the rig - it seems to jump around a lot. It seems to mainly stay around the level I want it to but occasionally drops down to 110bpm and then jumps up to 212bpm randomly. I'd like to have a monitor I can trust to read accurately.

Thanks in advance for any advice :)

[lostkat]

First of all, STOP WEIGHING YOURSELF :p You achieve absolutely nothing by weighing yourself every few days apart from upset if you happen to be slightly heavier that day. My weight goes up and down like a yoyo from day to day. I would stick to weighing yourself once every 2 weeks at the same time of day, but do it weekly if you don't feel you can wait that long. Also, I would recommend taking measurements of your waist/thigh/bicep etc. as I find this much more reliable than the scales.

Also, you're right on the muscles front. They will retain water initially to help the repair process, but that's not a bad thing and it'll drop off again, so don't worry. I can gain up to 1/2 stone due to water retention, but it falls off again. Just keep drinking your water as that will help. Also, remember that you'll be building muscle which everyone knows is more dense than fat, so even though you're losing fat, your weight loss will be slowed by your muscle mass increasing.

You've done brilliantly so far to lose such a large amount of weight in a very short time. You often lose a lot when you make a shock change to your diet and start exercising for the first time in a while. However, it then slows down to a much more steady level. Healthy weight loss is around 1lb per week and don't forget - the slower you lose it, the slower it goes back on again.

[Pheebs]

Stan - What Kate said!!

Most of my problems stemmed from weighing myself everyday (and eventually every morning/evening). I would write down everything and it was shocking. One day I would be 3lbs lighter... the next day I would be 4lbs up (and I would always make sure it was at the same time of day, using the same scales and after having a wee! lol!)

From the sounds of things you're doing spot on. Eating healthily, exercising where you can and have the determination to do it :) As Kate said too - initially you tend to shed pounds very quickly and then you slow up once your metabolism catches up and it comes off slower!

Keep going as you are, weigh yourself weekly... if not fortnightly... and if you feel like you've had a bad week don't weigh yourself at all... and you'll be fine :)

Good luck Stan Stan the Whiskey Man :) *wubs* xxxx

[Stan_Lite]

Thanks Girls.

I normally weigh myself once a week, I was just curious to see if the three nights working out had made any difference - I won't be doing it again :p

I've made a few half-hearted attempts at losing weight over the past few years but this time I feel much more motivated for some reason - maybe it's the realisation that I'm now a middle-aged man and if I don't do something about it soon, I'll really struggle if I leave it much longer.

Should I be doing my work out 7 days a week or should I be having the odd rest day now and then? I'm not very clued up on this fitness malarkey due to being a couch potato for the last 2 decades :o I think I'll cut down to 30 minutes and build up slowly to 45 minutes over the 3 weeks I have left on the rig as I think I've been a bit ambitious to start with.

[Piggymon]

Haven't got time to post a proper reply but will do this evening :)

[lostkat]

It's important to have rest days and let your muscles repair themselves. I'd start off having 2 days rest per week and see how you go from there.

[Kell_ee001]

It's important to have rest days and let your muscles repair themselves. I'd start off having 2 days rest per week and see how you go from there.

I agree. You can always pick it up when you're home again and not working 12 hour days! :)

[Stan_Lite]

Okay. Plan is to have a rest tonight to give my poor old body a chance to fix itself then go on to 30 minute workouts for a week or so and then build up slowly over the following couple of weeks to 45 minutes. I'll stick to my previous Monday morning weighing in sessions and try to resist the temptation to weigh in between.
I'll try to get some measurements later today and check them regularly too.

Thanks for the help so far. Looking forward to your input Piggy :)

[Matblack]

This is going to sound odd coming from me but;

If you want to lose weight at a good pace but keep it off for a while then you need to build muscle as well as burn fat. I would recomend 3 sessions of weights a week alternating lower and upper body.

Cardio is boring and time consuming, if you want to maximise its effects then you can make a lot of difference by altering intensity during your workout, have a google for HIT (High Intensity Interval Training) 20 minutes will do you a power of good and if you mix that in with your weights you'll be burning fat with newly developed muuscle. I've seen girls in the gym do cardio for an hour a day for a year and not get rid of the fat they were targeting, when coupled with some extra muscle mass the change was fast and visible.

http://bodyforlife.com/exercise/index.asp

Eating wise then cut back on simple carbs and sugars, swap white for brown (rice, bread, pasta) and little little and often.

http://bodyforlife.com/nutrition/index.asp

These are the premises behind a system called Body For Life which is an American system, the book is VERY American and rather ra ra ra but the system works, its not expensive, you don't have to use suplements (although they are advocated in the book and can make for quick meal replacements).

When I was motivated I lost a hell of a lot of weight doing this, I will do it again :)

MB

[Matblack]

With regard to resting between sessions, if you are doing light cardio my experience is that this isn't essential, where it is essential is with weights work as muscles need time to repair before you hit them again. I would suspect your body has taken on water as it has experienced dehydration and it shocked by the new exercise you are throwing at it, it maybe that you'll keep the extra water in reserve but you'll lose fat weight in greater quantities very quickly so don't worry about it.

I need to get back into shape this year and kick start myself, once I get going like you I get very self critical and weigh a little too often, if you are eating right you can ignore fluctuations of up to a few pounds, what you are looking for is a downward trend, its hard not to kick oneself when the scale creeps up but it will happen especially if you start lifting weights so get used to watching the trend over a week not over a few days :)

MB

[Will]

Can't agree more with MB. A good weights session mixed in with some steady state (SS) cardio and HIIT works wonders. By building muscle you increase you MBR (metabolic rate) and just by sitting still you burn more calories. Don'/t worry you won't become a beefcake by doing a simple weights routine - I wish it were that easy!! lol!

[Stan_Lite]

Becoming a beefcake would be a pleasant side effect lol.

Really, I'm looking for the most effective way to shed the excess weight and to increase my fitness level. I've been pretty much sedentary for most of the last 20 years and I need to change my lifestyle to include healthy eating and enough exercise to boost my energy levels - being fat doesn't half make you lethargic and it's not easy breaking out of that vicious circle.

I've never been a big fan of lifting weights but if it's going to help, I'm game to have a bash - at least until I've lost the weight and then I can review the situation if I still don't enjoy it.
There are a few free weights in the gym on the rig - including: some dumbbells of various weights, a standard bar, a curl bar and a bench with leg developer and a barbell catcher thingy. I won't be able to do any exercises which require a spotter while on the rig as the gym is rarely used and I can't really ask anybody to give up what little spare time they have to watch me lift weights.
To be honest, I'm not that keen to start faffing about with weights until I get back and join the gym and get some tuition and advice - it's one thing doing a bit of cardio work but lifting weights is potentially dangerous and I'm a bit concerned in case I do myself some damage. If anybody can suggest some relatively safe exercises to see me through the next 3 weeks or so until I get back, that would be splendid.

Thanks for all the help so far :)

[Matblack]

20 minutes a day of HIIT and moving to complex carbs will get your cardio fitness up to a point where you'll be able to cope with some weight traning when you get back.

MB

[Stan_Lite]

20 minutes a day of HIIT and moving to complex carbs will get your cardio fitness up to a point where you'll be able to cope with some weight traning when you get back.

MB

OK. I had a bit of a Google and the consensus seems to be that for the most effective workout, I should be taking around 50-60% of my calories in the form of complex carbs (e.g. Wholegrain cereal, tatties, rice, pasta, pulses etc). I think my current diet can't be far off that - I'm not eating a lot of meat at the moment.

All I need to do now is a bit of research into HIIT, get myself a plan and get on with it - easy :p

When I get back home, I'll join up at the gym Kelly is a member of down the road and get some advice on weights and get them to give me some personal advice on a diet and exercise plan (I'm assuming most gyms will give free advice once you've signed up).

[Stan_Lite]

Hmmmm. Been looking into HIIT and it reminds me a bit of an exercise we used to do in football training when I was a lad where we would start on one touchline, jog half the width of the pitch and then sprint as fast as we could to the other touchline, turn around and repeat - several times.

Not sure I'm going to be able to do it on the rig. The only two things in the gym are a treadmill and a rowing machine. It would be almost impossible on the treadmill and the rowing machine doesn't seem to be working properly - I couldn't get it to go any great speed - even at the highest resistance. I don't think I'm going to be able to get either of them to max me out for the short bursts required for HIIT :confused:

[Admiral Huddy]

Try and avoid eating empty calories such as sweet stuff like cake!!!, crisps, seweets, chocs and bread.

Subsitute white bread with whole grain but 2 slices a day max.

Rice cakes and bagels make a good snack, Watch the butter though.. replace with low fat spread. I have a bagel with sliced banana just before training.. No butter or spread.

Avoid picking between meals.

Work hard in gym - stick to core strengh exercises, keeping form over weight :)

[Matblack]

OK. I had a bit of a Google and the consensus seems to be that for the most effective workout, I should be taking around 50-60% of my calories in the form of complex carbs (e.g. Wholegrain cereal, tatties, rice, pasta, pulses etc). I think my current diet can't be far off that - I'm not eating a lot of meat at the moment.

All I need to do now is a bit of research into HIIT, get myself a plan and get on with it - easy :p

When I get back home, I'll join up at the gym Kelly is a member of down the road and get some advice on weights and get them to give me some personal advice on a diet and exercise plan (I'm assuming most gyms will give free advice once you've signed up).

I was never impressed with the exercise plans I was given by gym 'coaches' and prefering to use free weights whilst they were advocating machines I discarded them pretty quick.

Nutrition wise doon't over complicate things, I never counted calories when I lost 6 stone, I ate healthly and followed a very very simple rule with regard to food; each meal eat complex carbs, a portion size approximately the volume of your closed fist and a protein portion approximately they size of your palm and as many veggies as you like. Easy! :)

MB

[Stan_Lite]

Try and avoid eating empty calories such as sweet stuff like cake!!!, crisps, seweets, chocs and bread.

Subsitute white bread with whole grain but 2 slices a day max.

Rice cakes and bagels make a good snack, Watch the butter though.. replace with low fat spread. I have a bagel with sliced banana just before training.. No butter or spread.

I pretty much follow that when I at home and it's all good sound advice, I'm sure - but almost impossible to stick to on the rig. I'm restricted to what is available out here - I can hardly nip to the shop for brown bread and bagels :p
I don't eat a lot of sweet stuff anyway and I love rice cakes. And :p about the cake. It's only one tiny bit once a day - about 50 calories worth and it's my little treat - meany :(

Work hard in gym - stick to core strengh exercises, keeping form over weight :)

Can you explain what you mean by "core strength exercises" please, I'm still a noob at this :o

[Stan_Lite]

I was never impressed with the exercise plans I was given by gym 'coaches' and prefering to use free weights whilst they were advocating machines I discarded them pretty quick.

Well, I'm the customer and I need to learn how to use what's available to me on the rig and that's free weights. If they won't help me in the way I want, I'll try somewhere else until I find somewhere that is willing to work with me.

Nutrition wise doon't over complicate things, I never counted calories when I lost 6 stone, I ate healthly and followed a very very simple rule with regard to food; each meal eat complex carbs, a portion size approximately the volume of your closed fist and a protein portion approximately they size of your palm and as many veggies as you like. Easy! :)

MB

Now that's the kind of stuff I need - easy to follow guidelines, no complicated stuff. Basically, big lump of tatties/rice/pasta etc and a small steak/chicken portion etc. and some veggies. That's a massive help Matt, thank you :)

[Matblack]

Well, I'm the customer and I need to learn how to use what's available to me on the rig and that's free weights. If they won't help me in the way I want, I'll try somewhere else until I find somewhere that is willing to work with me.



Now that's the kind of stuff I need - easy to follow guidelines, no complicated stuff. Basically, big lump of tatties/rice/pasta etc and a small steak/chicken portion etc. and some veggies. That's a massive help Matt, thank you :)

Seriously Stan look at the body for life website and spend £10 on the book, yes it talks about using EAS supplements but even if you ignore that and the over the top stuff the program does work, you've probably seen the photos of what I acomplished if not I'll add them later, although they make me a bit sad that I had it and lost it :(

MB

[Mark]

I'd agree with MB about the Body For Life stuff, and much of the advice he's offered I recognise from that programme. I knew about it because it was heavily plugged locally last month. Even thought about having a go but with all the other crap going on in my life I decided against for now. Not going to give up though - just too much change in one go would set me up for failure.

That's another important point - don't try to change everything in one go. Change one thing at a time and get used to it. When it becomes routine, change something else, and so on.

(See, I was reading that thread. :))

[Admiral Huddy]

Core stength exercises work out the whole body, giving you stability and strength throughout.

It sounds "hard-core" but it doesn't have to be like that. In fact , they are an important excercises that are often over looked.

Back extensions, "Good mornings", dorsal rises and shoulder rotations are good places start.. A quick google will give you how they are done. For the more advanced, deadlifts, Cleans and and continental snatches are more traditional core exercises when you are feeling more confident.

[Stan_Lite]

Core stength exercises work out the whole body, giving you stability and strength throughout.

It sounds "hard-core" but it doesn't have to be like that. In fact , they are an important excercises that are often over looked.

Back extensions, "Good mornings", dorsal rises and shoulder rotations are good places start.. A quick google will give you how they are done. For the more advanced, deadlifts, Cleans and and continental snatches are more traditional core exercises when you are feeling more confident.

Thanks dude.

I've been on the Body For Life website like Matt suggested and the principle looks sound enough so I've downloaded the charts and guides etc. and will be starting that on Sunday. I've decided Saturday will be my rest day as that's usually my treat day when I'm at home.

I'm Googling info about the various exercises now and will finish that tomorrow. I'm going to do a bit of cardio tonight, have my rest day tomorrow and then start properly on Sunday with my first weights session - by then I should have all the info I need on the exercises and stretching etc.

I've been on the Argos website and ordered weights, a weight bench and an exercise bike to be delivered next Saturday so it's all there for when I get home. I decided I'd get the stuff I needed for myself rather than join a gym. I've always had an aversion to gyms and it'll probably save me money in the long run. I haven't gone for expensive stuff - cheap and cheerful for now until I see how I get on.

[Piggymon]

Bah everyone has beaten me to it ;D

All sound advice there Stan. I would just add to keep an eye on what you're drinking as well as eating. Drinks ( both soft and alcoholic ) are empty calories and can really hamper your results if you don't take it into account

Here's a good link to show you the correct form for exercises

http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html

[Stan_Lite]

Bah everyone has beaten me to it ;D

All sound advice there Stan. I would just add to keep an eye on what you're drinking as well as eating. Drinks ( both soft and alcoholic ) are empty calories and can really hamper your results if you don't take it into account

Here's a good link to show you the correct form for exercises

http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html

Thanks Piggy. I found that website earlier and bookmarked it, it helped me understand some of the exercises. Another one I'm finding useful is http://www.shapefit.com/exercise.html

I only really drink water and tea through the day so the only drink I have with empty calories is my whisky of an evening - I very rarely drink beer nowadays, unless I'm out at the pub (or beer festivals). Obviously I can't drink whisky on the rig so it's only one glass a night when I'm home. I figure, since I don't drink sugary drinks through the day, I can be excused one whisky of an evening :)

[Piggymon]

Sounds fine to me Mr Stan ! :D

[Stan_Lite]

Sounds fine to me Mr Stan ! :D

:thumbup: :D

That's me pretty much sorted then. I just need to get all my exercises sorted out over the next couple of days and then I'm up and running - literally :D

Anybody have any favourite websites for recipes with the correct combination of carbs and protein etc.?

[Desmo]

Everyone has covered the whole shebang for you Stan, so I'll just add a good luck :)

[Stan_Lite]

Thanks dude. Appreciate the good wishes.

I think I'll do a blog on my Windows Live space just to keep track of things. Once I get it sorted out, I'll post a link on the off chance anybody's interested.

[Kell_ee001]

I've been on the Argos website and ordered weights, a weight bench and an exercise bike to be delivered next Saturday so it's all there for when I get home...

Bye bye living room ;D

[Stan_Lite]

Bye bye living room ;D

:D

Nah, it all folds up so it should all fit in the computer/games room ....... I hope :confused:

I haven't received the confirmation e-mail from Argos yet but they've taken the money so I can only assume the order will go ahead as requested.
If you can get any of it set up, you're more than welcome to use it if you want :)

[Stan_Lite]

OK. Blog has been started. For anybody who is remotely interested, you can find it here: http://bigstan528.spaces.live.com/blog/

Also, I have changed my weigh in day to Saturday instead of Monday. The reason being that Saturday will be my rest day for the purpose of my exercise program so the weigh in on Saturday morning will coincide with the end of my exercise week on Friday evening.

Current weight for the purpose of the start of the programme is 16st 4lbs = 228lbs = 103.5kg.
Target weight has been changed from 200lbs (nice round number I picked when I set up the ticker) to 189lbs = 13st 7lbs. I've settled on 13 1,2 stone as that was the weight I remember feeling most comfortable at. It's not set in stone and may change if I feel comfortable at a higher or lower weight - all depends really.

Edit: That's 49lbs to lose. If I can average 1lb loss a week, that'll be sometime around February next year to hit target weight - we'll see how that pans out.

[Matblack]

OK. Blog has been started. For anybody who is remotely interested, you can find it here: http://bigstan528.spaces.live.com/blog/

Also, I have changed my weigh in day to Saturday instead of Monday. The reason being that Saturday will be my rest day for the purpose of my exercise program so the weigh in on Saturday morning will coincide with the end of my exercise week on Friday evening.

Current weight for the purpose of the start of the programme is 16st 4lbs = 228lbs = 103.5kg.
Target weight has been changed from 200lbs (nice round number I picked when I set up the ticker) to 189lbs = 13st 7lbs. I've settled on 13 1,2 stone as that was the weight I remember feeling most comfortable at. It's not set in stone and may change if I feel comfortable at a higher or lower weight - all depends really.

Edit: That's 49lbs to lose. If I can average 1lb loss a week, that'll be sometime around February next year to hit target weight - we'll see how that pans out.

If you do BfL to the letter you'll drop 2/3rds of that within 2 challenges (6 months) I would have thought :)

MB

[Stan_Lite]

If you do BfL to the letter you'll drop 2/3rds of that within 2 challenges (6 months) I would have thought :)

MB

That would be exceptionally good. If I can get to about 14 stone by the end of the year, I'll work on packing in the smokes. I would do it sooner but I want to get a good load of weight off before I start on another difficult project.

I shouldn't have too much difficulty following it to the letter when I'm home but, as I state in the blog, it's going to be virtually impossible on the rig. I'll just have to follow it as closely as I can. The exercises should be fine but the food side of things will be a problem due to set meal times and choices available. I will obviously comply as closely as I can but I'll have to be creative on occasions.

[Haly]

Good luck with it Stan :)

[Matblack]

Well I'm going to make an effort with you Stan :)

Left the car at home this morning and walked to work, something I've been promising myself I'll start doing for a long time but finally I'm inspired enough to do it, the weather is supposed to be good this week too so U'll not have any excuse to hop in the car.

MB

[Stan_Lite]

Latest update. I was going to lift my post straight from the blog but it is a bit long-winded.

Basically, I did my first weights session last night and enjoyed it. I have my first HIIT session tonight and I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes.

If you want to read the full post, head over to the blog. (http://bigstan528.spaces.live.com/blog/)

Thanks to everybody for their help. Now that I have most of what I need, I think I'll stop posting in this thread and use the main weight-loss thread for progress updates etc. to keep things tidy.

Once again, thank you for your help and your encouragement :)

[Stan_Lite]

Well I'm going to make an effort with you Stan :)

Left the car at home this morning and walked to work, something I've been promising myself I'll start doing for a long time but finally I'm inspired enough to do it, the weather is supposed to be good this week too so U'll not have any excuse to hop in the car.

MB

Didn't see this before I posted.

Good for you Matt. That's what got me started really. I just started doing a bit of walking and being reasonably careful about what I ate. Once I saw that was having an effect, it spurred me on to take it a bit more seriously. Now I'm enjoying myself and finding things out I didn't really have any interest in before - exercise and nutrition were things other people got hung up about until recently.

[Matblack]

Didn't see this before I posted.

Good for you Matt. That's what got me started really. I just started doing a bit of walking and being reasonably careful about what I ate. Once I saw that was having an effect, it spurred me on to take it a bit more seriously. Now I'm enjoying myself and finding things out I didn't really have any interest in before - exercise and nutrition were things other people got hung up about until recently.

Yep its about time I started again, I've done it before and let it slide but that was mosting about vanity, this time its about health. I have to say I've recently started to feel achey and generally rubbish a lot of the time and if this is what it feels like to grow older unfit then maybe 30 minutes a days and watching what I eat isn't such a big price to pay to feel a bit better.

MB

[Stan_Lite]

Yep its about time I started again, I've done it before and let it slide but that was mosting about vanity, this time its about health. I have to say I've recently started to feel achey and generally rubbish a lot of the time and if this is what it feels like to grow older unfit then maybe 30 minutes a days and watching what I eat isn't such a big price to pay to feel a bit better.

MB

That's kinda how I'm looking at things as well. It's really not that much effort and I can assure you, the older you get, the worse it gets. I've been very overweight for so long now I had got used to being sluggish and lethargic. Even the relatively small amount of weight I've lost and the bit of exercise I've been doing has given me the sort of energy I haven't felt in years. It's really spurred me on to make bigger improvements - if I feel this good losing 12 pounds and doing a bit of exercise, how good will I feel after losing 4 stone and doing more exercise and getting stronger? :shocked:

[Matblack]

That's kinda how I'm looking at things as well. It's really not that much effort and I can assure you, the older you get, the worse it gets. I've been very overweight for so long now I had got used to being sluggish and lethargic. Even the relatively small amount of weight I've lost and the bit of exercise I've been doing has given me the sort of energy I haven't felt in years. It's really spurred me on to make bigger improvements - if I feel this good losing 12 pounds and doing a bit of exercise, how good will I feel after losing 4 stone and doing more exercise and getting stronger? :shocked:

It feels great, I remember, however its also a lot harder to maintain when you start to peak and I didn't have the motivation to keep it up, I suspect that I'll be picking a reasonable point this time where I am close to a proper shape for my frame and then 'stick' rather than keep 'twisting'. Last time I gave it all up after I hurt myself lifting, time time I'll need an excape plan, gradually easing down to a way of maintaining once I'm happy with what I have achieved and being willing to let myself not be constantlly breaking new barriers, that way madness lies!

MB

[Stan_Lite]

It feels great, I remember, however its also a lot harder to maintain when you start to peak and I didn't have the motivation to keep it up, I suspect that I'll be picking a reasonable point this time where I am close to a proper shape for my frame and then 'stick' rather than keep 'twisting'. Last time I gave it all up after I hurt myself lifting, time time I'll need an excape plan, gradually easing down to a way of maintaining once I'm happy with what I have achieved and being willing to let myself not be constantlly breaking new barriers, that way madness lies!

MB

I can see that being a problem for me as well. I can envisage getting where I would be happy to be now and having achieved so much, want to go one step further. The risk being that I wouldn't enjoy it and give up completely or end up hurting myself like you did.

I really should start thinking about how I'm going to ease off and maintain like you say.