View Full Version : Reducing emissions?
I don't know about you but my car has a trip computer and ever since I bought the car, I've been much more aware about the MPG I'm getting. It even helps me on the motorway when I'm doing 70-odd as you can back off the throttle and still maintain your speed. It also shows how much fule is wasted during strong acceleration. It's definitely changed the way I drive and my pocket (and the environment) is better off for it.
I now believe it would be a positive idea to force car manufacturers to include a trip computer on all cars, and place them in an easily visible position. It would cost only a slight bit more (economies of scale) but I'm sure it would make people change their driving style, slow down and perhaps even save a few lives/injuries and I'm sure it would reduce fuel usage and lower emissions overall.
Wha do you think?
Flibster
28-03-2009, 13:23
I take trips computers with an instant consumption feature as a challenge. :D
Managed to get my mums 1.something litre Punto into single figures last time I drove it.
Unless they ban large engined vehicles and completely enforce the speed limit with no leniency, I can't think of an easy way to reduce emissions.
Other than CVG's being fitted to all cars... but they're expensive and really quite dull.
AboveTheSalt
28-03-2009, 13:29
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I now believe it would be a positive idea to force car manufacturers to include a trip computer on all cars, and place them in an easily visible position.
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What do you think?Agreed. I would like them to turn red when you are doing too low a MPG and green when you are at or above the claimed MPG.
I believe that there has been research into reading the speed limit from some sort of roadside RFID device and having cars warn you if you are speeding - that would be a nice development as well :)
LeperousDust
28-03-2009, 14:21
Agreed. I would like them to turn red when you are doing too low a MPG and green when you are at or above the claimed MPG.
I think this would work pretty well with people actually.
I believe that there has been research into reading the speed limit from some sort of roadside RFID device and having cars warn you if you are speeding - that would be a nice development as well :)
People know they're speeding another constant reminder won't make any difference they'd soon learn to ignore it.
doesn't help me. Got a trip computer and it's averaging 26mpg over the last 8+K :(. It's book is 45mpg. Dread to think what I would do to a sporty car.
Reducing emmisions from cars is pointless anyway. The percent you save is nothing in the world scene, especially for the uk.
Untill we see a drive for a real switch in teh power grids world wide. And windturbines aren't a viable alternative. Not in their current form anyway.
I try and keep my MPG as low as possible most of the time, but sometimes I do try and see if I can keep over 30mpg. In town I'm happy if I get an average of over 22. But it's boring.
AboveTheSalt
28-03-2009, 15:42
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People know they're speeding another constant reminder won't make any difference they'd soon learn to ignore it.Not if you operate the bonnet release ;)
I'd unashamedly say I don't care what my MPG is. I didn't buy the car I did to pootle along in luxury, it's to drive and have fun and I know that costs me more in the long run and I'm perfectly fine with it. :)
I have no idea (and I don't care) what my mpg is either, my car is a transport solution that's all.
You're all young, that's what your problem is :D
Me, I just think of Gordon Brown leering at me as I fill up my car, knowing I'm paying 71% of the price I pay at the pump, directly into the Government's coffers. That's right, fuel duty is going up *again* on April 1st, and it's certainly no joke.
"At the height of soaring pump prices Brown made a promise during Prime Minister's Questions on July 16th 2008 not to raise fuel duty for a year.
He stated: 'In recognition of the problem people face with petrol, we are freezing duty on petrol for the full year.'
Brown broke this promise in December 2008 when he added 2 pence per litre to fuel duty to offset the reduction of VAT to 15% - a move which angered UK hauliers who are able to claim fuel VAT back, but not fuel duty.
He is set to break the promise for a second time on April 1st when fuel duty on unleaded and diesel will rise 1.84 pence per litre. Including the additional 15% VAT on top this will make the rise at the pumps around 2 pence per litre.
The Treasury have said that the only time further changes to fuel duty can take place are at the next Budget – which has been postponed from March until April 22nd, after the duty rise comes in."
I now believe it would be a positive idea to force car manufacturers to include a trip computer on all cars
Apart from maybe a few super budget 'barely even a car' models, I can't think of many cars released even remotely recently that haven't got some kind of trip computer.
AboveTheSalt
28-03-2009, 17:48
You're all young, that's what your problem is :DOnly someone knocking on Heaven's door would consider that to be a problem . . .
Only someone knocking on Heaven's door would consider that to be a problem . . .
I do that everytime I go out on my bike (m/c) :evil:
You're all young, that's what your problem is :D
Me, I just think of Gordon Brown leering at me as I fill up my car, knowing I'm paying 71% of the price I pay at the pump, directly into the Government's coffers. That's right, fuel duty is going up *again* on April 1st, and it's certainly no joke.
"At the height of soaring pump prices Brown made a promise during Prime Minister's Questions on July 16th 2008 not to raise fuel duty for a year.
He stated: 'In recognition of the problem people face with petrol, we are freezing duty on petrol for the full year.'
Brown broke this promise in December 2008 when he added 2 pence per litre to fuel duty to offset the reduction of VAT to 15% - a move which angered UK hauliers who are able to claim fuel VAT back, but not fuel duty.
He is set to break the promise for a second time on April 1st when fuel duty on unleaded and diesel will rise 1.84 pence per litre. Including the additional 15% VAT on top this will make the rise at the pumps around 2 pence per litre.
The Treasury have said that the only time further changes to fuel duty can take place are at the next Budget – which has been postponed from March until April 22nd, after the duty rise comes in."
Yeah but like I said I'm fully aware of the price I pay, but I do get something in return. Fun. I press the accelerator and I go fast, I hang on around the corners and hear the exhaust note echoing behind me. I love it and I'm fully happy to pay a premium for that.
Maybe when I get older I'll have a boring car, and I'll have children to think about, but until then, I'll enjoy myself on the roads whilst I can. :)
I also don't appreciate the lecture from the government about cutting *my* CO2 emissions, when they give the go ahead for new runways. How much extra CO2 is that pumping into Britain's skies? A hell of a lot more CO2 than I could ever compete with that's for sure.
Wrong audience - forum full of boy/girl-racers obviously ;) :D
I'm not a boy racer at all, I just enjoy driving. World of difference. :)
http://www.hypermiling.com/ Some good tips there.
Even without reducing the "fun" aspect there are a few good stretches of road here where I've discovered I can get some impressively low fuel consumption :)
Knipples
28-03-2009, 22:54
I just got back from Alton Towers to Bristol on half a tank!
Was quite chuffed with my ickle car :D
Matblack
28-03-2009, 23:19
I'm trying to reduce my emissions :)
Mb
http://www.hypermiling.com/ Some good tips there.
Even without reducing the "fun" aspect there are a few good stretches of road here where I've discovered I can get some impressively low fuel consumption :)
Since I believe Test Drive Unlimited uses a virtual copy of the island's roads, I wonder if they're the same ones I like to use a touch of the 'lead finger' with* :evil:
* Usually ends with me smacking into the back of something (preferably a cop car) at warp speed. :D
Matblack
28-03-2009, 23:23
farting less doesn't count eh?
MB
I'd like to reduce my emissions but it's near impossible MB.
As for the car, on some of our longer journeys in the 5 I sometimes take a look at the MPG readout and keep it looking good but most of the time it just doesn't enter my head.
I drive a 4,000 pound 5.2L V-8 AWD SUV. I also have a right foot that seems at times to weigh 7 tonnes.
And I do this with it on a regular basis.
ALDqLZM32ec
As it stands right now, I'm probably the furthest thing from trying to reduce emissions. But believe it or not, it IS a concern for me. I'm actually trying to figure out how to turn my Jeep into a hybrid...
What I don't save or reduce on my car/bike emissions I do my bit elsewhere, like turning the central heating down/off, not having baths, turning unnecessary lights off, not leaving my computers on etc... If they want to reduce CO2 though they just need to stop destroying rainforrests, and help the Phytoplankton increase in numbers to help absorb the CO2.
As it stands right now, I'm probably the furthest thing from trying to reduce emissions. But believe it or not, it IS a concern for me. I'm actually trying to figure out how to turn my Jeep into a hybrid...
Something apparently worth keeping an eye out for is the Massive Yet Tiny engine, MYT, if you're prepared to do your own maintenance (with something like 1 moving part that's very infrequently)
AboveTheSalt
30-03-2009, 09:51
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I'm probably the furthest thing from trying to reduce emissions. But believe it or not, it IS a concern for me.
...I do nothing to reduce my emissions and drive a 'kin' tank
BUT
I am concerned about it.
WTF :confused:
It doesn't mean he can't be trying to save things in other aspects of his life.
In all honesty, I'd rather look at my oil temp than the MPG calculator as it's more important to me. My car was made 22 years ago and although it's not the most eco friendly vehicle in the world, I haven't consumed the amount of resources used by buying a brand new one.
However, we recycle all of our cardboard, paper, glass, cans and plastic bottles/containers so I consider that as "doing our bit". I also grow some veg and try and buy fresh food which doesn't have too much packaging attached to it. Not always possible though.
Like Will, I think the governments of this world need to focus slightly less on forcing people to buy (new!) low emission cars and much more on putting a halt to the alarming rate of deforestation which is still taking place worldwide. Everybody KNOWS that rainforest soil is poor in nutrients once the trees are gone and can only sustain a few years of farming before it turns to dust, but we're still bloody well doing it.
I do nothing to reduce my emissions and drive a 'kin' tankBUTI am concerned about it.
WTF :confused:
There's not much I can do about it living in this apartment in the middle of a city. They don't even have recycling bins here.
When I lived in Minnesota I was able to do a lot more. I installed a carbon POSITIVE heating system, I recycled everything I could including using over 50% of my trash for heating fuel, I was looking into making my own electricity by renewable resources and I was even looking into converting to an all electric vehicle.
But considering I can't even lift the bonnet to check my own oil in this apartment complex...
And to be quite honest, I'm not going to sacrifice my one and only fun activity in this world to save a couple pounds a year of CO2 when I see every government official around driving solo in a huge Chevy Suburban SUV when a Clio or equivalent would suffice.
Besides, my Jeep cost me $1,200. I drive 1.2 miles round trip to work and less than a mile round trip to the grocery store. I may only get 14-18mpg out of it, but I'm lucky if I drive it 100 miles a month. So if you can somehow use less than 7 gallons of petrol a MONTH, feel free to come talk to me about how wasteful I am. Even if you ride the tube, I'm still beating you on carbon footprint per month, ok? ;)
AboveTheSalt
30-03-2009, 17:08
<snip>You're American . . . I hadn't realised ;)
You're American . . . I hadn't realised ;)
What's being American got to do with it?
Nevertheless, I think it's very useful knowing how much fuel you're using. You can be on the motorway, with your foot resting too heavily on the pedal, you're not really accelerating, but simply using less pressure doesn't drop your speed necessarily, but it can make a big difference on your fuel. It's quite an eye-opener for me TBH - I've never had a fuel computer before.
LeperousDust
30-03-2009, 19:50
Less pressure doesn't drop your speed? How in gods name do you work this out? Surely thats as simple as an energy in energy out thing. More fuel means faster essentially (or obviously i'd have hoped). Otherwise you're breaking a fundamental law surely :p
I can understand physically moving the pedal off a tiny bit might make you stay at the same speed, but this is just a bit of play in the accelerator surely and tiny movements not actually influencing the engine. If you're literally reducing the amount of fuel being burned, the engine won't be performing the same? You can't just reduce one element of the equation and have the same result?
Well I do try to save some fuel on long runs. I accelerate away from roundabouts slowly and stick to 70 on the motorway. I've always coasted upto lights, its something that my dad did and I always have. Never speed as I really cba scanning all the bridges, layby's etc on a 200 mile journey.
You could say this is negated a bit by zooming up slip roads and burning away from some nasty roundabouts on route. Simple reason being if you pull away calmly you get cut up by morons in the wrong lane. Burn away and then you can let them play silly buggers behind.
Less pressure doesn't drop your speed? How in gods name do you work this out? Surely thats as simple as an energy in energy out thing. More fuel means faster essentially (or obviously i'd have hoped). Otherwise you're breaking a fundamental law surely :p
Nope. It seems that a lot of fuel is wasted by leaving your pedal depressed too much. Perhaps it's just diesel but it seems that you can press the pedal just enough to maintain your speed or press it a little more and still not accelerate though you can see your fuel use increase. There's certainly more to acceleration and overcoming your vehicles inertia than absolute position on the throttle. That's why a human can easily beat a cruise control device for economy if they're both trying to maintain a constant speed.
Incidentally, taking your time seems to get you to your destination quicker as well - at least, that's what it feels like :)
LeperousDust
31-03-2009, 02:08
Nope. It seems that a lot of fuel is wasted by leaving your pedal depressed too much. Perhaps it's just diesel but it seems that you can press the pedal just enough to maintain your speed or press it a little more and still not accelerate though you can see your fuel use increase. There's certainly more to acceleration and overcoming your vehicles inertia than absolute position on the throttle. That's why a human can easily beat a cruise control device for economy if they're both trying to maintain a constant speed.
That must be play in the accelterator, or the inertia of the engine literally pulling more fuel through the engine anyway. If you back off the pedal, you burn less fuel, if you burn less fuel, you spend less energy, if you use less energy you go slower. I can't see how you can work this any other way? Basic physical laws we all abide by (unfortunately) ;D
Your trip computer may be wired to tell the angle of the accelerator (amongst other things) or something, so it "thinks" you're being more efficient. Or the decrease in speed is so slight you don't notice it. There are loads of reasons why you might not notice, but suffice to say i don't think you can trick your car/world/physics into saving fuel ;) Trip computers are still not totally correct, they're all based on calculations really.
Only way to find your real MPG is to brim, measure distance driven, brim again and read at the pump what fuel you put in, then divide. I used to try this when i have money, now i try to just fill the car up as little as possible at the time, having absolutely no money to spare, which generally means i just don't use the car where ever humanly possible, whic works out pretty well for me, and consequently the environment. :D
Incidentally, taking your time seems to get you to your destination quicker as well - at least, that's what it feels like :)
I definately contest that, speeding gets me home MUCH quicker from uni :D :P
That must be play in the accelterator, or the inertia of the engine literally pulling more fuel through the engine anyway. If you back off the pedal, you burn less fuel, if you burn less fuel, you spend less energy, if you use less energy you go slower. I can't see how you can work this any other way? Basic physical laws we all abide by (unfortunately) ;D
It's not play in the accelerator. It's perfectly possible to be heavier on the accelerator than is required without changing speed; and conversely, it's perfectly possible to only use as much throttle as absolutely necessary - that's the challenge for maximising fuel economy. What you're talking about would be an environment with no road friction, no wind or air, and no gradient changes in the road. Unfortunately, maintaining your speed and maximising fuel economy require judicious use of the throttle according to the physical parameters of everything that can affect the vehicle's forward velocity.
Your trip computer may be wired to tell the angle of the accelerator (amongst other things) or something, so it "thinks" you're being more efficient. Or the decrease in speed is so slight you don't notice it. There are loads of reasons why you might not notice, but suffice to say i don't think you can trick your car/world/physics into saving fuel ;) Trip computers are still not totally correct, they're all based on calculations really.
Yep, fair point, but what can't lie is how many miles I get out of the tank relative to how much fuel I have to add to fill it as you go on to say. Almost invariably, I use the same pump as well so I get a good idea.
I used to try this when i have money, now i try to just fill the car up as little as possible at the time, having absolutely no money to spare, which generally means i just don't use the car where ever humanly possible, whic works out pretty well for me, and consequently the environment. :D
Yep, that's the best way - avoid such journeys in the first place! :cool:
I definately contest that, speeding gets me home MUCH quicker from uni :D :P
In absolute terms, yes; but I really do feel like a journey is quicker if I take it easy and relax - nice music, etc. Speeding just makes you more aware of how much time you're taking, if that makes sense? :D
My car has an instantaneous MPG reading and it reckons there is a 5mpg difference between doing 70mph with the throttle open and 70mph with the throttle closed (while maintaining the same speed). I do about 2000 motorway miles a month and so this sort of thing is something you notice!
I have thought about this in the same way as Alex has and I have come to the conclusion that its to do with the AFR. More air means it needs more fuel to maintain the "optimal" air-fuel ratio (14.7 I believe?) but as you dont need any more power it will adjust the timing advance so you end up making about the same power. Shut off the taps slightly and you have less air so you need less fuel but a change in the timing.
Not 100% sure on the timing bit but that makes sense as to how you can develop the same amount of power with a different rate of fuel flow. My MPG readings certainly tally with what phykell is experiencing :)
On the whole speeding thing, I think that depends on your car - mine is more than happy to tick along at 80-90mph and it doesnt feel any different (in terms of sensation of speed, road noise etc) to 70mph. The only real difference is that I am more mindful of police presence and the fact that at 90mph indicated you are generally the fastest thing on the road.
Matblack
31-03-2009, 12:07
I find I drive a lot slower these days, OK I'll give the car the odd poke on A roads but motorway I almost aways accelerate to 70-75mph and bung the cruise on, my car is a lot more fuel efficient at 70-75 than just 10mph faster and I used to find that if I did 90 I was coming up against traffic that didn't want to drive as fast as me and having to slow down then speed up again as I came up behind people in the fast lane. I seems to be a mixture of getting older and also when I started to go on seriously long journeys like going to Pembrokeshire, I didn't have to look out for cameras and I didn't often have to slow down to overtake, just drifted past people in the middle lane. I think cruise has made a big difference to my driving too and although not the most fuel econmic way to drive it has probably made more of an impact than anything else.
MB
Fuel price rise came into force yesterday, never mind the "recession" :/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7975793.stm
I've changed my mind about a fuel computer, how about an animation of Gordon Brown - the more fuel you use, the more Brown smiles and leers at you :evil:
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