View Full Version : More parking fines!
LeperousDust
28-04-2009, 18:10
It's not a hidden fact i hate traffic wardens, and they apparently hate me also. The vultures round here have just fined me yet again.
See here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=chambers+street+edinburgh&ie=UTF8&ll=55.948022,-3.189254&spn=0.012135,0.038538&z=15&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=55.9473,-3.190356&panoid=-9qA5cBi_9oE_tc7ZLj4vQ&cbp=12,344.7661469933187,,0,7.706013363028954) for a street view of where i parked, in exactly the same place as the blue car in that view.
Anyway there is a single yellow line outside the court there, which looks like it may have been a double in years gone by, but its definitely faded and only half of it has been renewed. I parked to "unload" for a few mins whilst i pop in and out of Revs where i work just next door. Within basically two minutes i'd been fined for parking in a restricted zone, code 01 i think it is. Now thats all well and great, but there are NO signs up saying when i can and can't park on this single yellow line, and if its a double its clearly illegal.
So i've taken pictures of all of it, and im going to contest it, thing is if i don't pay this fine in 14 days from time of notice it doubles. What do you think my chances are? Pictures i've taken to follow i walked back into revs to use a real camera and taken a million pictures from all angles to contest the two they'll have that are useless most probably, rev's have yet to email me them though...
Not going on the technicalities here but there are about 5 signs saying no parking there. Four on the pole by the City link van and one infront of the pay and display machine.
Dymetrie
28-04-2009, 18:22
There are also two blue cars!
LeperousDust
28-04-2009, 18:29
Right sorry should have been a little more specific, blue saloon, the other blue car is in a parking bay, thats where they start.
The no parking signs, were temporary ones for a festival or something on at the time when the google car was roaming, they're categorically not there now! You'll see when work send me photos :)
just follow the instructions and appeal. They have to put the case on hold pending investigation. Something like 65% of parking appeals are successful, so it's well worth it. Send the form back special or recorded, then make sure you keep the receipt and check it's been received.
Have a look here:
http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/HowToAppealAParkingTicket.html
Usually if you appeal, your 14 days to pay starts from the appeal decision and not the date of the actual offence. In other words, the 14 days is put on hold. That's what happens here, but don't quote me on it being a national thing.
LeperousDust
28-04-2009, 20:44
Yeah tbh that sounds about right after reading around :) Still waiting for work to email me the pictures though...
I got fined today. My fault for not moving it after the weekend but A: sods law my mate texts me at 8:50am to tell me there's no ticket and lo and behold the fine is timed at 9:08am! and B: its £60! For a scooter! It should be done on size so I only pay £3.50! Or cars pay £2000.
LeperousDust
01-05-2009, 16:05
Right, finally got pictures! :p
Here's my letter i've got ready to go:
Mr Alexander Dodd
1f2 25 Warrender Park Road
Edinburgh
EH9 1HJ
Parking Services,
The City of Edinburgh Council,
PO Box 4660,
Worthing,
BN11 9FR
To whom it may concern,
Reference:
Penalty Charge Notice number: EH4821475A
Date of issue: 28/04/2009
Vehicle registration: P359 WUD
Make: Nissan Colour: Green
Location: Chamber Street
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.
On 28/04/2009 my vehicle was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of offence code “01” Parking in a restricted area OS Sheriff Court, by parking attendant E862.
In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. As I was parked on what could be described as a single yellow line (SYL), or a poorly maintained double yellow line (DYL) I’m unsure. In the case it is a SYL there are no contributing signs to state when restrictions are in place. In the case of a DYL only one of the lines has actually been repainted making it wholly ambiguous.
Please find enclosed evidence to this effect, in the form of pictures taken at the time of the offence in question. These show there are no restriction signs near the line depicted in multiple pictures and the quality of the line in the case it could be perceived as a DYL.
For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.
Yours sincerely,
Mr Dodd
Uploading pictures as i type. Also after reading here (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/transport/parking/parking%20in%20edinburgh/on_street_parking/cec_parking_tickets#WhatdoIdoifIfeelthatIhavebeent reatedunfairly) (the Edinburgh council website) it says to dispute a ticket you can only do so in writing and not on the phone, which is fair enough. But just above that it says in writing or email us now i know theres a possibility they won't reply to an email, but as it stands my printer is ballsed the one in uni is black and white unless i want to pay a fortune and i have to post this too. It'll cost me about a fiver to get off the £30 fine which doesn't seem right in itself! Do i chance emailing? Wait a "few" days no reply then send it recorded? Thats what i'm planning to do atm... Thoughts?
How long do you have before the fine doubles? Will the letter get there in time if you do that?
You don't even want to think about giving them the opportunity to claim non-receipt.
Blackstar
01-05-2009, 20:56
You could ask me and i'd print it out on my lovely colour printer but you'd need to come and get it because i cba going out.
SidewinderINC
02-05-2009, 07:59
The no parking signs, were temporary ones for a festival or something on at the time when the google car was roaming, they're categorically not there now! You'll see when work send me photos :)
No parking, Sunday 3rd of August, 7AM-7PM.
LeperousDust
02-05-2009, 13:21
How long do you have before the fine doubles? Will the letter get there in time if you do that?
You don't even want to think about giving them the opportunity to claim non-receipt.
I know i know, i've got Monday 11/05
You could ask me and i'd print it out on my lovely colour printer but you'd need to come and get it because i cba going out.
:D Thats especially kind of you, but there are about 6 massive photos and i really don't want to waste your ink either! I just begrudge paying for something that is actually this clearly wrong, in this case i might as well have put a minimum of £1 in the bloody meter to avoid all this hassle, but that annoys me even more!
No parking, Sunday 3rd of August, 7AM-7PM.
?
I presume he's got that from Google maps?
LeperousDust
02-05-2009, 14:13
Right pictures finally, and these weren't taken almost a year ago by google!
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal01.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal02.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal03.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal04.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal05.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal06.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal07.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal08.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal09.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/Appeal10.jpg
Waiting for someone to point out an obvious sign i've missed everytime i've been there now ;D
don't know if you saw this:
When can I load?
You may load or unload on roads without yellow or red lines at any time, as long as you are not obstructing traffic, footways or driveways. You may also load or unload:
on red lines outwith the prohibited hours (see street signs).
on yellow lines outwith the prohibited hours displayed on street signs or at all times when there are no kerb stripes and signs present.
For example, on Greenways, you may only load or unload on single red lines or in a marked bay outside of restricted times (that is, you can load from 6.30pm to 7.30am Monday to Friday, and 6.30pm to 8.30am Saturday). You may also load or unload in designated loading bays during restricted hours – details of permitted activities and hours for each bay are shown on the adjacent signs. Always check signs for each bay or area before loading or unloading.
Where can I load?
Check signs and road markings for any restrictions.
Click here for an illustrated guide on road markings and signs
Where can’t I load?
You can never load or unload:
on double red lines
where there are double yellow stripes on the kerb
on white zig-zags at a pedestrian crossing
at pathway entrances
across driveways
at kerbs lowered for pedestrian crossings
where your vehicle will cause an obstruction
Where can I load only during certain hours?
You can only load or unload during certain hours:
on single red lines. Most single red lines operate from 7.30 am to 6.30 pm from Monday to Friday and from 8.30 to 6.30 pm Saturdays. Check street signs.
when there are yellow stripes on the kerb: double stripes mean no loading at any time, but single stripes mean no loading or unloading except during certain times (check street signs).
How long can I be in a loading bay or on yellow lines?
You may load for 30 minutes. However, parking attendants will issue a ticket if they do not observe any activity for five minutes. You may not load from the same bay or yellow lines again within an hour.
What do I do if I:
need to load or unload during restricted hours?
will take longer than 30 minutes?
will be away from my car for more than five minutes at a time?
You need to apply for a dispensation.
Can I load from a public parking bay?
Yes, but only if you have bought and display a pay and display voucher.
Not sure if the huge 'keep clear' sign on the road might give you a problem when you appeal. Still worth a shot though as it's up to them to prove you DID commit an offence, not the other way around.
LeperousDust
02-05-2009, 16:32
Nah again thats definitely fine :) The road is about 4/5 car widths wide and the middle is used for parking just right of picture, but people obviously have a habit of overusing that space as the road narrows the big keep clear sign it for that not my parking. You can kinda see what I'm talking about in appeal05. I'm sending them an email of the letter with attached photos anyway, and i'll mention in the email they will receive recorded next day delivery if no reply is received. Seems fair enough :)
LeperousDust
05-05-2009, 22:00
Re-sult! Got a reply today (via email! nice) its on hold pending inquiry, so pretty much sorted without needing to mail it seems :) Well probably shouldn't talk too soon i guess, but it would seem that its been read anyway!
LeperousDust
13-05-2009, 17:44
Bast***s
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/LeperousDust/ParkingAppeal/00683333.pdf
I could quite have easily been loading, which would have taken well over 5 minutes to go from the car down 3 stories to the cellar find a key for the cellar room and put stuff there... We did have a delivery of hired UV stuff recently. I'm wondering if its even worth the hassle, the way they mention challenging at the bottom now sound pretty official.
TO CHALLENGE A PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE
If you want to challenge this Penalty Charge Notice (parking ticket), you should wait for the
Notice to Owner form, which we will send to the registered keeper/owner automatically if
we do not receive payment. This form will give you an opportunity to dispute the ticket
further. This is called making Formal Representations. Please note that if you make
Formal Representations and you are unsuccessful, you must pay the full £60.00 penalty.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1991, there are only six reasons which you can base your case
on. We do not have to cancel parking tickets in other circumstances, although we will
carefully consider every case on its merits.
But then again i don't like them bullying me into paying, in fact it really ****ing pisses me off more than anything. Any ideas guys? Anyone i should ask if its worth the hassle? No point fighting a lost cause and paying twice the amount but i think out of all my 5 parking fines this is the most unfair.... haha :D Good job i can actually still smile about this, t**ts. ;D
But then again i don't like them bullying me into paying
I don't think in this case that they are bullying you into paying. From reading their letter, it's pretty conclusive and your car was observed without any loading/unloading going on for five minutes.
*tip* Don't park where you're not supposed to, it tends to avoid this :)
Agree with Feek. Looks conclusive to me. Unless you have a very good argument why the lack of signs means the order is illegal (and I'll bet that one has been tried before), then you're bang to rights I'm afraid. Time to pay up and move on. :(
LeperousDust
13-05-2009, 18:52
I was pretty much in and out maybe over 5 minutes, but there is a parking attendant IN on of the photos (as in the time i come out see fine go back into revs grab a camera and come back out...), showing i wasn't really around for as long as they suggest. The parking attendants around Edinburgh are fair obviously, but in the tightest way they can possibly be trust me (i got two fines at once basically last year :p). My mate got fined at 5am in the morning for parking on a double yellow line! Now we all know a double yellow line is a no no, but 5am, seriously, outside my flat? Money grabbing ****s
I'm thinking if i get a letter headed from Revolution tonight saying i was loading and show them the photo with their attendant in the photo, and see where that takes me, worst off i pay £60 i guess i'm not exactly taking them to a small claims court or anything, still i'm not really sure if its worth it... It's just in my nature to not take this **** because this fine definitely isn't fair! I've paid the rest where i know i was in the "wrong" parked on baby kittens.
Were you actually loading and unloading? If you were (and I'm asking because you said "unload" - as in figure of speech) then that's the right approach - get the evidence and dispute it.
If you weren't, then you'll be just digging a big hole for yourself and planting a 'perverting the course of justice' sign in it (or whatever the equivalent in the circumstances is). Don't go there - it just isn't worth £30.
Also bear in mind how much defending yourself is going to cost if it comes to that. More than £30? - don't bother, even if it is a matter of principle.
Just my 2p, feel free to do with it as you please. :)
LeperousDust
14-05-2009, 02:11
Were you actually loading and unloading? If you were (and I'm asking because you said "unload" - as in figure of speech) then that's the right approach - get the evidence and dispute it.
If you weren't, then you'll be just digging a big hole for yourself and planting a 'perverting the course of justice' sign in it (or whatever the equivalent in the circumstances is). Don't go there - it just isn't worth £30.
Also bear in mind how much defending yourself is going to cost if it comes to that. More than £30? - don't bother, even if it is a matter of principle.
Just my 2p, feel free to do with it as you please. :)
Been in work, so excuse the late reply, but yes, i was "loading", as in i was seeing a manager for a few minutes, only to do him a favour. I can probably quite easily get a header letter stating i definitely was loading that day from the same manager and revs. As for defending myself the way the word it, its all outside of court, worse case scenario is i lose and i pay £60 which is what annoys me but also makes me think might as well push my luck, an independent adjudicator oversees the altercation if the knock me back again, and i don't know how a headed loading letter can really honestly lose, let alone the fact an attendant is IN a photo!....
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