View Full Version : Playing with remote triggers
Matblack
28-04-2009, 21:24
You might have seen my previous thread with the skaters, the general consensus is that direct flash isn't good with skating so I thought I would take my new toys out for their first test. Have a look at the skate thread (http://www.boat-drinks.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11484) and compare the look to these :)
1
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/matblack2/IMG_4008.jpg
2
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/matblack2/IMG_4011.jpg
3
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/matblack2/IMG_4016.jpg
4
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/matblack2/IMG_4020.jpg
http://www.twobeds.com/upload/userfiles/matblack2/IMG_4029.jpg
No they aren't very good but they do give an idea of what can be achieved with off camera lighting, I feel it has the potential to really bring out the best in scenarios and I'm pleased I got the triggers, my first pics as a ghetto Strobist!
MB
Matblack
28-04-2009, 21:50
Remote triggers are a way of removing the flash unit from the top of the camera and placing it somewhere else in the scene, this has certain advantages for the look of the picture, I think it can make things more dramatic but it also requires a flash which can be set manually and triggered remotely.
I used these
http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/product.php?productid=17204&cat=274&page=1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/3250075166_9865e55c9a.jpg
The left hand unit goes on top of the camera in the hot shoe and is triggered by the hot shoe. This sends a signal to the second unit to trigger the flash and bang you have off camera lighting :)
The only problem being that there is a lot of trial and error involved with the power and distance of the flash unit from the subject, I will nail it over time but it will take some work.
I plan to get some diffusers to make the light less harsh from the flash, people used shoot through umbrellas mostly as these don't take up too much space and offer a good diffusion of light, but these things all cost money and I had to buy a manual flash to go with the triggers, umbrellas and stands next month :D
Please don't be afraid to comment on the pictures, I'm interested to know what people think, I post over on TP a bit but I value your opinions :)
MB
I can appreciate the effort, the skill in getting the timing right, and even the reason why direct flash isn't ideal, but I'm not sure what the effect is intended to achieve in this case. In other words, I can appreciate and applaud the 'how?', but I'm struggling to understand the 'why?'
As an aside, how responsive are the remote triggers? Do you have to make allowances for synchronisation between the camera and the flash?
Stan_Lite
28-04-2009, 22:26
I can appreciate the effort, the skill in getting the timing right, and even the reason why direct flash isn't ideal, but I'm not sure what the effect is intended to achieve in this case. In other words, I can appreciate and applaud the 'how?', but I'm struggling to understand the 'why?'
As an aside, how responsive are the remote triggers? Do you have to make allowances for synchronisation between the camera and the flash?
I think the point is that you can light the subject using the flash from a different angle. Using the flash in the normal fashion, one illuminates the subject from the front (i.e. the aspect facing the camera), therefore, the area of the subject in front of the camera is pretty much fully lit. Lighting the subject from different angles allows different shadows and therefore, different effects and increases the range of shots one can achieve. That's how I see it anyway.
I was wondering about synchronisation too - is there any noticeable lag or does the trigger compensate?
I would agree that the flash needs to be diffused - the contrast between the lit aspect of the subject and the unlit aspect is rather dramatic. A softer flash would make a big difference I would think.
Yup - I got the 'why' in the general case. It's the same reason you often see remotes in use when taking shots of people in a studio setting. It's this specific case I'm unsure of. Maybe it is the contrast problem that is confusing the issue for me, or maybe it's just me. :dunno:
Matblack
28-04-2009, 22:36
In all honesty? Because I can, the flash arrived this morning and I was doing youth work tonight so I thought I would take a few shots as an experiment. As for why that sort of lighting I think shot 1 really sums it up. If that shot had been taken with a head on flash it would look flat and boring, the shot itself doesn't need a flash at all but for me it adds impact. These shots were also taken in daylight, the use of off camera flash makes for quite a dramatic under exposed sky whilst the subject is lit nicely :)
There is no doubt that there are situations where off camera lighting can be better employed but this was what I had to work with today and I was interested in what people thought and of course showing off my new toys :)
MB
I think it looks great, it really adds a sort of 'sparkle' to the photos - a sort of realness. I don't know what i'm trying to say, but I like it anyway. MUCH prefer it to the others (although I loved the b&w conversion you did).
You've inspired me to look into this a little more when I've got time. I can see many situations where it would be most useful and create far more interesting shots and shadows/contrast than you'd get with head on flash.
Matblack
28-04-2009, 22:41
I think it looks great, it really adds a sort of 'sparkle' to the photos - a sort of realness. I don't know what i'm trying to say, but I like it anyway. MUCH prefer it to the others (although I loved the b&w conversion you did).
You've inspired me to look into this a little more when I've got time. I can see many situations where it would be most useful and create far more interesting shots and shadows/contrast than you'd get with head on flash.
Thanks Kitten :)
MB
I have to admit that I had a hard time initially spotting the flash in #1. I think I've figured it out now. And yes, I totally agree with Kitten that I much prefer these to the previous set (which I'd missed first time around).
And 'because I can' is as good a reason as any as far as I'm concerned, as is showing off new toys. :)
The third picture down is brilliant. It looks like an album cover. It might not be technically 'right'. (although I wouldn't know!) but it really does look good.
Stan_Lite
28-04-2009, 22:43
I think it does have the potential to boost otherwise ordinary shots with the huge range of potential positions for the flash. I'd really like to see the effect in proper darkness and diffused.
The third picture down is brilliant. It looks like an album cover. It might not be technically 'right'. (although I wouldn't know!) but it really does look good.
I was just thinking how much it looked like an album cover too :D
agreed with Vix on 3. There's a real sense of movement with the subject which I think is enhanced with the detail we can see due to the remote flash.
Once you get the hang of them you can make yourself twice as attractive as you really are. That's why I love mine :D
I think it does have the potential to boost otherwise ordinary shots with the huge range of potential positions for the flash. I'd really like to see the effect in proper darkness and diffused.
A large advantage off camera has is that you don't require darkness to achieve those sorts of effects.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/richyj/scream.jpg
This for example, I think was taken in the evening with curtains open. Dim but not dark.
MB - having been slapped in the face for not seeing the obvious - don't take my post as criticism. It was purely inquisitive.
Stan_Lite
28-04-2009, 22:48
The third picture down is brilliant. It looks like an album cover. It might not be technically 'right'. (although I wouldn't know!) but it really does look good.
agreed with Vix on 3. There's a real sense of movement with the subject which I think is enhanced with the detail we can see due to the remote flash.
Oddly, that is my least favourite of the set. I prefer the last picture - it seems less artificial to my untrained eye.
3 and 4 are good, though sadly seemingly out of focus. They really demonstrate the ability of flash well with the subject well lit with a normally exposed background. Ordinarily that shot would have ended up with a very bright background or a dark skater and been somewhat lifeless.
Matblack
28-04-2009, 22:52
I was wondering about synchronisation too - is there any noticeable lag or does the trigger compensate?
Right, to explain this I really need to make sure everyone who reads it understands what we are talking about and how flash works.
A flash is very different from what we see when a flash goes off, when we see a flash it lingers in our eyes for a few 1/10th of a second but in reality a full on flash lasts not 1/10th of seconds but much much less. A capacitor is like an elastic band under terrific tension until it it cut loose and than it moves/ fires incredibly quickly and incredibly brightly, which means that as long as the shutter is open then when the flash fires it is almost like a second shutter. Imagine a camera in a completely dark room and a subject unlit, open the shutter for a full minute and there will be nothing on the plate; fire a flash during that minute and there will be a single sharp image as if the shutter had only opened for that millisecond when the flash fired.
What we can take from this is that shutter speed isn't too important when using flash. However in the circumstances above when you have ambient light you do need to keep the shutter speed below a certain point (usually 1/200th of a second or slower) modern flash technology does have some special trick for high speed sync but lets leave that out of the equation as cheap off camera flash can't take advantage of it. Because our capacitor is under so much strain when it gets a signal it can cut loose very fast, radio signals travel very fast and the trigger circuits work very quickly so as long as our shutter speed is below 1/200th then there will be time for the flash to fire during the shutters opening :)
So no compensation just the miracle of electro magnetic signals :shocked:
MB
Another use, albeit on a more functional level:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/richyj/DSC_7880_S.jpg
Taking images of bubbles for my others half's final year project and off camera lighting produced much better images for analysis than front lit.
4's good but I just want to shout "pull your pants up" ;)
/dennis leary
Matblack
29-04-2009, 07:20
The third picture down is brilliant. It looks like an album cover. It might not be technically 'right'. (although I wouldn't know!) but it really does look good.
I was just thinking how much it looked like an album cover too :D
http://www.amiright.com/album-covers/images/album-The-Clash-London-Calling.jpg
First one I thought of
Out of focus......check
Off camera lighting ........check
;D
MB
Matblack
29-04-2009, 07:22
Thanks for your comments everyone. Remember this was all about the experiment and the comparison with the previous weeks efforts and not about creating fantastic shots but I am quite pleased with what I got in a way, it shows me what I could be achieving with strobes and that you can do a quick and dirty ghetto setup :)
MB
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