View Full Version : Broadband provider
I was wondering if anyone has any good or bad experiences with joint phone/BB providers such as TalkTalk which aren't apparently that bad any more (I have my doubts about the source of this).
My BT £11.25/month paperless bill - yet again it's gone up, combined with £18.95 for a 10gb 8mb package seems to be the wrong end of the market. Especially for the housemate.
I'd like to keep a reasonable download limit, at 30gb on-peak at the moment, the only downgrade being to 3gb which wouldn't work, but 10gb-20gb or so would probably be okay.
Would have to be ADSL for various reasons (including it being rented accomodation).
NokkonWud
15-06-2009, 21:51
We left BT and went to Sky, which worked out well for us as we ended up making quite a substantial saving overall and getting a much higher quality provider.
I can have Karoo or Karoo or Karoo...
It sucks and it's expensive :(
O2/Be if you can get the LLU services, end of story.
http://broadband.o2.co.uk/home/packages.jsp
8Mb Unlimited (and you really can abuse it) is £12.23 (£7.34 if you have an O2 mobile)
20Mb Unlimited is £14.68 (£9.79 for mobile customers)
Upload on both is 1.3Mb
Really, quite simply the best ADSL broadband packages going if you can get them.
Wouldn't touch the likes of TalkTalk, Sky, Orange etc. with a 43ft bargepole.
Best thing to do is drop your postcode into SamKnows (http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php), and see what you can get on the LLU front. :)
leowyatt
15-06-2009, 23:53
another vote for O2 here :D
NokkonWud
16-06-2009, 00:16
Wouldn't touch the likes of TalkTalk, Sky, Orange etc. with a 43ft bargepole.
TalkTalk and Orange suck. Sky really isn't bad.
Be wasn't really possible because going that way, the phone line was gonna cost more via BT and Sky refuse to knock anything off their TV package, so things aren't always as cheap as they appear.
Another vote for O2, I've nothing but good things to say about them.
Streeteh
16-06-2009, 01:13
Be (which from what i understand are the same as O2) have been pretty good. They've had DNS issues but OpenDNS solved that instantly, i've never been told off for basically constantly thrashing my line every evening and that's all i ask of a service provider.
TalkTalk and Orange suck. Sky really isn't bad.
You're possibly the first person i've encountered who has said that. Most people seem to have a fairly negative opinion of it. Harshly enforced caps/fups, slow speeds, unstable, awful customer service etc.
Well and truly lumped into my 'awful never ever consider' group of ISPs.
@ Streeteh, O2 use Be's network.
Dymetrie
16-06-2009, 06:12
Yet another vote for Be/O2. Damn good connection, really cheap and I can thrash the hell out of it :D
Probably swapping to O2 myself soon :)
In fact, I just signed up :D
What's their wireless router like? Or should I stick with our current Netgear DG834G?
leowyatt
16-06-2009, 07:52
The O2 Wireless box is good, we have a v2 one and I have to say the signal is excellent, don't have to reboot it that often.
As people have said, once you get it setup, change the DNS to OpenDNS and you'll be fine!
Sky are reasonably good. Their infrastructure is very solid and they're very cash rich (I'm talking about the Infrastructure company here) but their customer facing people are to say the least a waste of space.
They seem to be a bit like NTL - great when things work but a right ball ache when it doesn't.
I placed an order with O2 - £7.34 a month for 8meg - brilliant! There was no point in getting the 20meg package as the line can only sustain 10meg - I remember testing it with a BT friend of mine, we managed to get 11.7 out of it, but for the sake of an extra 2 meg and £3 a month I didn't see the point. 8meg is more than enough and I don't do many big downloads.
At last I'll have broadband at home again! 6 months of paaaaainful 2~3g connections, and a painful ghetto connection leeching off a neighbour (:o).
Briggykins
16-06-2009, 08:50
Does anyone have an opinion on which ISP to go with if you can't get any LLU services or cable? I'll be moving house some time over the summer and will have to give up Be, although I'll be about ten times closer to the exchange so hopefully won't notice much of a speed difference. Fast.co.uk seems to get very good reviews, but I'd also heard Entanet resellers are good.
If you can't get LLU or cable then for it would be a no brainer - Zen. They are without doubt the best ISP I've used. Their tech support staff really know their stuff. If it wasn't for BT giving me a noisy line with stupid SNR I'd most likely still be with Zen.
Zen are a bit more expensive than others but I was happy to pay the extra few quid.
Yeah we used Zen in my old job - really really good, and as you say from a technical point of view very good too.
This is quite interesting, looking at O2, I'm outside their "O2's Broadband network coverage area" but within their "alternative O2 Home Broadband Access package".
Effectively that means it's more expensive and I can't get a static IP which I need.
This is quite interesting, looking at O2, I'm outside their "O2's Broadband network coverage area" but within their "alternative O2 Home Broadband Access package".
Effectively that means it's more expensive and I can't get a static IP which I need.
That's a roundabout way of saying no LLU for Feek, but you can get RADSL so you can have that instead.
I really miss the static IP I had from Zen. Well, I actually had a /29 subnet which made life so much easier! At least my IP address these days is sticky rather than dynamic.
I'll vote for Be/O2 too. In the last 17 hours I've downloaded 40GB usually at around 700KB/s. I've done that several times in the last month. Not even a word out of them. :)
The general rule with the LLU (non-BT) and Cable providers (Be/O2/TalkTalk/Sky/Virgin) is that they treat LLU/Cable as their primary service and concentrate any investment there. Any service they may offer via a BT line suffers as a result and usually comes with more restrictions (FUPs/caps). Such services are best avoided as a result.
Dymetrie
16-06-2009, 09:59
I'll vote for Be/O2 too. In the last 17 hours I've downloaded 40GB usually at around 700MB/s. I've done that several times in the last month. Not even a word out of them. :)
That's a LOT of porn! :shocked:
usually at around 700MB/s.
You sure about that?
700KB/sec. :o
Dunno what made me write M. :o
Wishful thinking I expect :)
This is quite interesting, looking at O2, I'm outside their "O2's Broadband network coverage area" but within their "alternative O2 Home Broadband Access package".
Effectively that means it's more expensive and I can't get a static IP which I need.
It's also not very good, if you can't get the LLU stuff, go elsewhere.
Odd, O2 reckon I can get an 18meg line but I only get 8 at the moment. Unless of course enta are limited with their speed. Will wait and see what happens when I actually get connected.
Enta only do upto 8Mb afaik, O2/Be do up to 20Mb (or 24Mb, I forget, it may have changed)
leowyatt
16-06-2009, 10:36
Well O2 told me we'd get 14meg on our line but 12 is the only stable speed we can get.
The checker only judges on geographical distance, it doesn't account for line quality or how far the line deviates from as the crow flies. Same as anywhere really.
Odd, O2 reckon I can get an 18meg line but I only get 8 at the moment. Unless of course enta are limited with their speed. Will wait and see what happens when I actually get connected.
That means they'll be putting your line to ADSL2+ equipment which is upto 24Mb. Normal ADSL (or RADSL as they call it these days) is upto 8Mb.
Enta only do upto 8Mb afaik, O2/Be do up to 20Mb (or 24Mb, I forget, it may have changed)
24Mb.
Well I'm pretty sure my line quality is good as I always connect at around 7,500+ out of 8. Maybe I will get somewhere near 18 :D
24Mb.
I suspect maybe only Be do the 24Mb services now, O2 only list 20Mb.
http://broadband.o2.co.uk/home/index.jsp
edit - a quick look confirms. Be do 24Mb, O2 do 20Mb.
Well I'm pretty sure my line quality is good as I always connect at around 7,500+ out of 8. Maybe I will get somewhere near 18 :D
This means absolutely nothing I'm afraid. I could get 7 out of 8. I can also get 8 out of 24. At least I do actually get that 8 pretty much all the time now, and it's costing me less. The line checker will be a reasonable guide to what you can expect - maybe a little more, maybe a little less.
Aye, I do appreciate that Mark :)
But I remember a while back that somebody looked at all my other figures and said the SNR and attenuation, etc were all quite good so I'd like to think my line is pretty good :)
As you say though, just have to wait and see.
I suspect maybe only Be do the 24Mb services now, O2 only list 20Mb.
http://broadband.o2.co.uk/home/index.jsp
edit - a quick look confirms. Be do 24Mb, O2 do 20Mb.
Ah yes, I forgot that O2 don't exploit ADSL2+ fully. From what I read I think the modems can sync at upto 24Mbit but they have a maximum of a 20Mbit BRAS profile set.
It makes me so hot hearing you talk all techy Paul.
Bit early to be drinking is it not? :p
NokkonWud
16-06-2009, 12:50
You're possibly the first person i've encountered who has said that. Most people seem to have a fairly negative opinion of it. Harshly enforced caps/fups, slow speeds, unstable, awful customer service etc.
Well and truly lumped into my 'awful never ever consider' group of ISPs.
@ Streeteh, O2 use Be's network.
My speeds are superb, I don't think I see it as unstable because it's so much better than BT and they were shocking. Sky has only gone down twice in almost a year (one of them this morning). The customer service isn't that bad, although their TV section is much better.
As I said before, cost is the most important thing, the deal with Sky made much more financial sense than paying far more money for what is, ultimately, little difference.
Sky is fast, isn't harshly capped (at least I haven't been), I have no problems playing online, easy to reach customer services and is stable.
Go figure.
Bit early to be drinking is it not? :p
I don't care. He's sex-on-1-and-a-half-legs. :cool:
I don't care. He's sex-on-1-and-a-half-legs. :cool:
2 legs come the next of next week I hope!
This thread has certainly made me have look at my own stats though I'm struggling to understand all the nuances.
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3392 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 62.0 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 5.3 db 16.0 db
If I'm understanding this right I'm actually doing quite well with 3392kbps with these stats and I probably live a long way from the exchange with poor copper wire.
Why however is there such a discrepency between downstream and upstream figures? I understand this is quite common but don't really get it.
Karoo are upgrading their network to ADSL2 and according to http://www2.farina1.com/ADSL/default.aspx I would actually get a slower speed from an upgrade to my account; is this right and is there much I could do to improve things?
I wouldn't expect any increase with ADSL2+. Your attenuation is quite high and your SNR quite low. With those figures I'd expect the line to be pretty stable.
To try to improve things you could try using a better filter and connecting to the test socket behind the master socket or in the master socket itself if that isn't available. Make sure that any extensions with telephones in are filtered.
AboveTheSalt
16-06-2009, 13:40
I know that they don't provide a phone service, but whatever you do, I would recommend avoiding BeThere Unlimited.
I transferred to them a while ago; they started off significantly slower than the speed they suggested I would get and the speed has been going down steadily ever since I started using them. When I contact their helpdesk, they say that the problem must be at my end.
Unplug *everything* else, use the test socket and their modem. Send them the stats. If they can't justify them then it's in their court or they are in denial. You might have to bypass the Bulgarian first line support to get a result.
AboveTheSalt
16-06-2009, 14:24
Unplug *everything* else, use the test socket and their modem. Send them the stats. If they can't justify them then it's in their court or they are in denial.That is more or less what Be There have suggested, with the addition that they say that I should plug splitters into every single phone socket in the house, even though it is unused and I should replace the RJ11 to modem & the RJ45 to PC cables.
All of this entirely ignores the fact that my download speed has nearly halved in three months and I certainly haven't changed anything.
You might have to bypass the Bulgarian first line support to get a result.Do you know of a way to achieve this?
See what happens if you say you're not satisfied with that response and wish to escalate. If that doesn't work, threaten to walk. Sounds like you're willing to do that anyway.
Might also want to make contact with someone from the Be Usergroup (use the Be forum) to see if they can suggest anything.
PS - use the supplied modem and RJ45 cables too. Plugging splitters in to empty sockets is pointless, but if you're going for the test socket that will most likely make that a moot point anyway (though that does depend on how your master socket is wired).
All of this entirely ignores the fact that my download speed has nearly halved in three months and I certainly haven't changed anything.
That doesn't necessarily mean that something hasn't begun to fail or degraded. My brother was having problems with his ADSL being slow, turned out he had a < 500Kbit sync rate. He hadn't changed anything but the filter was knackered. I changed it for a filtered face plate and all was good again.
Sorry to sneek into this thread... atm i've got no BT line but SamKnows reports that if i did I could get LLU.. (right now i'm using Virgin but i'm less and less happy with it)
How do I get from no BT line to llu/o2 (there is a socket which the old owner had but I elected for Telewest as it was then) ?
I think you'd have to phone BT to get a line conected first, then contact an ISP for your ADSL afterwards. Obviously this means you'll have to start paying your normal phone line rental (£11-12 per month) on top of any ISP package.
Looks like I've got a date from O2, all things going well, we'll be swapped on the 24th :)
Many thanks for the replies all, looks like we're going to O2 a shot in the near future :)
I believe someone mentioned Zen; they really are the best provider I've ever used having signed up a few years ago when e7even screwed us unfortunately my new housemate took objection to the 20gb limit and wanted to move.
Many thanks for the replies all, looks like we're going to O2 a shot in the near future :)
I believe someone mentioned Zen; they really are the best provider I've ever used having signed up a few years ago when e7even screwed us unfortunately my new housemate took objection to the 20gb limit and wanted to move.
Zen are fantastic, and I'd never have moved ISP from them if their prices were a little more realistic and they didn't have such tight caps.
O2 is cheap, reliable and I've not been capped yet, you won't be disappointed :) (The only thing I will say is consider using OpenDNS rather than O2's DNS servers, they are not the best)
TinkerBell
16-06-2009, 21:09
Very unhelpful post BUT DON'T LEAVE BT :p
I may be slightly biased though :p
NokkonWud
16-06-2009, 21:22
Very unhelpful post BUT DON'T LEAVE BT :p
I may be slightly biased though :p
Worst.ISP.Ever.
You're going to lose that argument. Trust me. ;D
Besides, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I can name at least three ISPs worse than BT - Karoo, Tiscali, and the now defunct AOL.
TinkerBell
16-06-2009, 21:26
They aren't the best, but to say they are the worst is abit OTT :p
My landlord is paying for the phone line rental with BT - I'm just tapping in a broadband order onto it - wouldn't have paid for a phone line otherwise!
Very unhelpful post BUT DON'T LEAVE BT :p
I may be slightly biased though :p
I really can't agree, BT seem to be a little overpriced for BB, and just generally overpriced for a phone line! My main issue with them is that they've been immensly unhelpful when it comes to anything from moving house to enabling broadband. Last time I moved home it took BT wholesale about a month to enable me for BB - moving a cable or something right.
After this I got no ADSL light and had to try two routers including the one from my previous flat where I hadn't left under great circumstances, and drive 30 miles to test the same, and about 5 filters. They also had me taking the phone socket apart over the phone and then said I shouldn't be doing that.
After all that, and having to convince (and pay for petrol) my Dad to drive up (170 mile round trip) for the day a BT engineer came around. Or would have, on the way they stopped at th exchange and phoned to say "yeah, wasn't enabled, all done now" then popped around to check it was working.
Didn't get a dime off of BT for 1-2 months without broadband, loss of money etc... because they couldn't do what they said they had and getting hold of them through the whole mess was a joke. Some said contact BT wholesale, another gave me a number and to give it a try, some said I can't / they won't speak to me.
Arghhh :'(
BTs online system is also a little rubbish, I was charged - rental only... excl calls, £10 in Feb, £18.48 in March, £13.04 in April, and £11.25 in May. No idea what I'm going to be charged this month even though the cut off date was 2 days ago. I admit these prices match what has come out of my account so maybe it's not the online system that is at fault.
The best - and only half decent phone operator I spoke to at BT was an American! Though even he turned out to be talking rubbish but at least pretended to be helpful.
TinkerBell
17-06-2009, 07:17
I didn't say they were a great company for BB, did I?
I can understand some of the things being annoying and partly BT's fault for not working smoothly all the time. But how is it BT's fault that your dad had to drive 170 miles to get to yours for the engineer? That is your fault. Taking apart PART of the socket is so that they know it isn't your internal wiring and if it is and we come out then you will be charged. So it is for your benefit.
Don't want to argue, but imho it's BT's fault because they refused to check it was at their end and said I had to book an engineer to fix it, and be in all day because they couldn't guarantee when he would phone / turn up!
I could have tried to get a day off work either unpaid / as holiday but still feel BT should compensate you if it turns out to be their fault just as if you haven't done all you can they charge you for the call out.
As I say, that's just my opinion though.
On another BT BB subject of course I was meant to get ADSL off them back in 2000 or 2001 just after open reach opened. It was all booked, the other service cancelled - not sure why they said we had to do that but anyway, and when we rang them at about 4:30pm the day the engineer was booked for, to ask where they were they said we weren't in a BB enabled area and he wouldn't be turning up.
Dymetrie
17-06-2009, 19:00
O discordia!
Streeteh
17-06-2009, 19:09
BT tried to bill me £120 to activate my phone line as they claimed it was with another provider, however after doing my own research i found a number i could ring to find out the phone number of my line. When i rang this the automated system started 'welcome to the BT maintenance line'. Found out the number then rang them, no apology, even after 5 attempts to take my money when they shouldn't have.
Do not like.
Currently with O2/Be and got to say that they are the best ADSL provider I have used. I got a very good deal from one of the guys over at the blue place who works for O2, I think we pay £5.00 a month for the upto 20mb service. We usually get around 6 given our distance from the exchange. Support is excellent and free.
Only downside is the O2 Box. If you play any online gaming, it's a bugger because of the firmware on it. It can be an arse to get it into the DMZ. If you have a netgear stick with that.
I've got a dlink thing at the moment I'll likely stick with it for now, it's got LAN ports and I connect via homeplug which is dead smooth. That and the wireless card crashes the computer and the housemate has my dongle (yes I know how that sounds but can't think of another way to put it!).
Means I can only get the 8mb service unless I upgrade to ADSL2 (I think?) but I don't think either of the housemates is likely to hammer it to warrant anything faster. Once the router dies I may get a ADSL2 Draytek if I'm feeling rich :)
Received our O2 box today and having a look around, it seems to do everything I need easily enough so will probably stick with it and use my Netgear at work.
The O2 box came very quickly. Just desperately waiting for the line to be activated! :D
Only downside is the O2 Box. If you play any online gaming, it's a bugger because of the firmware on it. It can be an arse to get it into the DMZ. If you have a netgear stick with that.
What games have you had issues with?
It's never given me any problems at all, never even had to think of poking around with it to play a game online.
leowyatt
18-06-2009, 09:35
I've had no trouble with the O2 box at all, turned the gaming setting on and it's fine.
What games have you had issues with?
It's never given me any problems at all, never even had to think of poking around with it to play a game online.
Anything by THQ that has notoriously poor netcode e.g. Company of Heroes, Dawn of War II. To be fair it is more THQ than the box but I would recommend getting a netgear router
WOOOOOT!!! We're connected.
Up : 1,300
Down : 18,844 :cool:
Nice! Our O2 package has 1.2 up and 9.9 down - which considering I'm paying for an 8 meg connections is pretty cool :D
The box restarted it's connection tonight...and has jumped up to 19,838 :eek:
Reckon I'll break out the Be/O2 box then and see what it'll sync at (compared to my Draytek). My rate is going down - was just under 9Mbps, now 7Mbps.
I guess I'll lose the SNMP monitoring I just enabled on the Draytek. No biggie - had access to that and didn't know for years. :)
I'm starting to get a bit frustrated at UKFSN. Despite the fact that my ADSL modem is connected at 4416kbps, I'm getting barely half that transfer rate. I used to get full whack.
Psymonkee
27-06-2009, 01:09
Similar story here with UKFSN - connection speeds are dropping browsing is becoming horrendous :(
Be/O2 say 30/6/2009 though so fingers crossed...:)
Never had any problems with UKFSN, just that O2 were a far better deal these days at half the price and the unexpected speed increase is just a massive bonus.
My speed jumps about a fair bit, some days it will sync at 5500, others more like 3500, most of the time it's somewhere between 4000-4250.
Reckon I'll break out the Be/O2 box then and see what it'll sync at (compared to my Draytek). My rate is going down - was just under 9Mbps, now 7Mbps.
I guess I'll lose the SNMP monitoring I just enabled on the Draytek. No biggie - had access to that and didn't know for years. :)
Actually, it's VoIP I'll lose - the router acts as my VoIP gateway.
Anyway, just did this, and got an instant 50% speed boost (though to be fair that's comparing against the worst reading I've had from the Draytek - it's only 25% better than the best). I didn't expect that at all. :(
I'm now left to ponder whether I'm prepared to live with the noddy interface that doesn't let me configure things I'd like to (e.g. DHCP binding) and the loss of my secondary VoIP service, go back to the slower but more feature-rich 2800, or break out the plastic again and get a 2820Vn. :/
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