Help! Running Water

[Mark]

Hate doing this, but I need urgent advice.

For the last 45 minutes I've been hearing evidence of running water in my kitchen, and I don't know where it's coming from. I live in an upstairs maisonette.

There is no evidence of water where it shouldn't be inside my property. The main stop tap (under my kitchen sink) is off (to be on the safe side). I have checked as much of the pipework before this tap as I can get to (which admittedly isn't much as it disappears into a wall).

I'm not sure if downstairs is occupied. It is currently on the rental market. I've contacted the letting agents already but they didn't seem that interested. I popped open their letterbox and could hear the same sound. I also found an open window and same again.

The only evidence of water I could find is outside at the back of the property. It's decidedly sodden out there, but that often happens (not a good area for drainage). Because of the fact that it's particularly wet around a cover for an outside stop tap, I'll still consider it evidence. I can hear water moving at that tap.

Where do I go next? Serious question. :(

PS - If it does prove to be mine, I'm insured to get it fixed, but I can't find any evidence that it is. Before turning off the stop tap I tried my taps and water flow seemed normal.

[leowyatt]

so with the stop off you can still hear the water?

[Mark]

Yes. I've now checked all internal taps, overflows, the CH loop from my Combi boiler, and anything else I can get at without going into the loft (there's no tank up there).

I've posted here, OcUK, phoned my dad. All stumped to far. Managed to find the phone number for the owners downstairs so I've now contacted them.

Just went and checked and whatever it was has stopped so I've let the owners know that there's a bit less panic now.

[Jonny69]

Where's the stopcock into the building? There will be one at the water meter and probably another one inside the property before it heads off into the pipework. Are you sure the one under the sink is the one that supplies all the plumbing or just the mains water to the sink?

[Treefrog]

An unoccupied property with an open window? Running water that stops after 3/4 hour?
Squatters maybe?

The other possibility that occurs is that the water is off, their tank has sprung a leak and the water level has now fallen below the level of the leak.
Just a couple of possibilities that occurred to me.

[Mark]

These properties have two stopcocks - one outside (around the back), and one inside (under the kitchen sink). My internal stopcock is jammed (not sure how that can be fixed but that's not a problem for today). However, because I have a water softener I just shut the inlet to that off instead which does the same job.

I'm not sure what the plumbing downstairs is like now. I know what it used to be like and a leaking tank would have been a possibility there, but the new owners did a lot of work on the place and may have changed it (I had the same sort of tank before I had CH installed).

Unlikely to be squatters. I see/hear people in there occasionally but maybe the previous tenants have given notice but not moved yet, or maybe its the owners.

Edit - there's someone in there right now. Just heard them go in.

[Treefrog]

Fair enough :)

Have you let them know what you heard?

[Mark]

I went one better and let them in to check my property as well as their own. They're in the trade so should know what they're doing.

They think it's my pipework (the pipe goes through their property on the way up to mine), but they had the tools to turn my main (outside) stopcock off, which they did. Apparently no change. At least I know which stopcock is mine now.

Stumped all around.

[Mark]

Thanks to everyone for advice and/or encouragement.

Think the leak has been found. It's by my main water stopcock in the communal back garden, but not on 'my' side (i.e. turning the tap off doesn't stop it).

That part of the pipework serves another flat besides mine, so counts as part of the shared services. The people who run the site maintenance have agreed that would make it their problem (which means it's covered by the annual maintenance charge). They've called a plumber to at least confirm we're on the right track.

Fingers crossed. One misery down.

PS - After speaking to neighbours it turns out the water supply was briefly turned off at around the time it failed, so that would be the cause.

[Feek]

*phew*

[Mark]

Thames have called and the engineer has agreed with the diagnosis, which means it's a repair at their expense. Now it's just a case of waiting.

[Belmit]

Every time I see this thread I immediately think of native American Indians.

[Jingo]

Every time I see this thread I immediately think of native American Indians.

;D

Those unimaginative names strangely inspired by the first things people see... Good old Chief Running Water, his beautiful wife Falling Leaves, and their lively children Leaping Salmon and Two Dogs Bonking :p


I'm glad you've got to the bottom of things Mark and that it's not going to be costly to you- I didn't envy the situation one bit as water can be so damaging, but must admit to a guilty giggle imagining you rapidly hitting refresh on the threads whilst droplettes splashed on your head! :eek:

[Mark]

I've had the droplets splashing problem too. Fortunately the repair for that is holding (sideways rain is the best test for that and there was plenty of that last weekend).

As for Chief Running Water, there must be some Indian trick that can be done to make the noise go away. It's that that gets on my ****.

[Mark]

There's currently a big hole in my back garden, and a big pump removing the water from said hole. Holy :eek: that's a lot of water. Imagine about 5bar of pressure with nowhere to go but out.

Now the pipe has been exposed, I know the score. The pipe burst wide open and the only thing that was holding the water in was the mud around the pipe, so half the garden is now saturated.

Still, at least it's being fixed. \o/

[Jingo]

No BBQ's at Marks for a while then! ;D

Glad it's getting somewhere closer to sorted now :)

[Mark]

I'm just glad I can't hear running water in my kitchen any more. Of course, it's only natural that I should now want to use the toilet. I've got one flush and lots of bottled water if I get desperate. ;D

[Nutcase]

Woo hoo, naked mud wrestling show at Marks! ;D

[Mark]

Permission granted! ;D

[Mark]

And then there was no leak! It's a bit quiet in my kitchen now. :)

Thanks all for the help/advice/encouragement.

[Mark]

So then, I had a card through the door today saying Thames Water have found a leak in my supply pipe! Deja Vu running wild. :)

If there is a leak, then they would have to have been trespassing on private land to find it (the card implies its in the ssupply pipe, which goes in via the back garden). However, I'll let them off with that one on the grounds that any leak in the supply pipe now would almost certainly be due to their own contractors either causing further damage or not fixing the original problem. Either way they're not going to like it. :)

[Nutcase]

As you say, an "acceptable" tresspass, although they may have just used listening devices on the pipes and narrowed it down to your property.

[Mark]

Or just carded all eight properties fed from the supply pipe that goes around the back. I'll find out Tuesday and I'm certainly hoping that if there is any leak it's the result of the work last time.

[Mark]

Or just carded all eight properties fed from the supply pipe that goes around the back.

This! Except there are actually two supply pipes. One goes down by the garages and serves houses 9-17, and one goes down by my house and does 1-7. Both pipes have covers in the street which is how the engineer found the leak. No trespassing then. :)

It looks like both pipes have rusted out, probably as a result of the back garden turning into a swamp. Will probably have to get the landlord involved with that in the summer. Maybe the drain has collapsed, or maybe it's just old age (the pipes around here are nearly 50 years old and there have been several recent leaks around the site).

I gave the engineer access to the back garden and we traced it to numbers 9 or 11. 5-7 (mine) was repaired last November, and it looks like 1-3 has been done since. I suggested they ought to replace the whole pipe run but no doubt they'll just patch again, which probably means several more years of this, and no doubt that the pipe on my side of the supply tap will eventually suffer the same fate (that will cost me). :(

Still, it's not me, this time. Aaaand relax! :D

[Stan_Lite]

On a related note, the guy from downstairs knocked on the door this morning to complain of water coming through his bathroom ceiling. He'd mentioned it a few months ago but I couldn't see anything then.
I checked a bit more thoroughly this time and the connection from our washing machine hose to the feed pipe was leaking. I've switched off the valve until I get a new hose and given him the details of the letting agents in case he wants to make a claim. He says he's going to let it dry out and see if there's any permanent damage. If there's no permanent damage, he says he won't make a claim. I'm sure the landlady's insurance will cover it anyway if he does.