Poor PC performance? [Archive]

killerkebab

27-09-2006, 22:18

I have posted the same thread in OcUK, but I feel I could do with some (ok, many) more opinions. I recently bought this new PC:

E6600
X1800XT
2GB Corsair DDR2 PC6400 (C4)
Abit AB9
2x 150 Raptors

I ran a couple benchmarks on default settings in 3DMark06 and 1M SuperPi:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/Test01.jpg

1M SuperPi got me 28 seconds.

According to some this is very poor, but I don't have a clue what to attempt nor where I may have gone wrong... any ideas?
If it helps, I set it up all myself so I probably installed it all wrong, but I just don't know :(

Matblack

27-09-2006, 22:22

Its because its not in my house, if you let me look after it, it will run faster :)

MB

Mark

27-09-2006, 23:38

Is that CPU running at stock? With good quality coolers, and if you're into overclocking it's nuts off, then you should be able to get a decent overclock on those.

I believe Bijstan has an OC'ed E6600, or at least one of the Core 2 Duo range, so should be able to give you an idea what's possible.

Stan_Lite

28-09-2006, 08:44

I do indeed have an E6600 at home (which I've "overclocked the nuts off" :D ).

That 3DMark score looks quite low for that setup and the Superpi is definitely too slow - my E6600 did around 20 seconds at stock with dodgy RAM (under 14 seconds overclocked to 3.5 with the same dodgy RAM).

Not sure what the problem could be without having access. Can you get CPU-Z screenshots (CPU and RAM pages)? Have you tried stress testing with Prime or OCCT or similar? Is it stable?
Photos of the screen with bios settings may help too.

Could be a dodgy chip or motherboard.

Must confess to struggling a little bit at the moment :undecided:

Stan :)

Edit: Having looked at the 3DMark page, there seems to be something strange with the reported speed for the CPU. CPU-Z screenshots for both cores would be helpful to see what speed they're running at. Also, the pics of the bios screens (especially CPU settings would be very helpful).
I've never had an ABIT board before so I'm not particularly "au fait" with the bios but I should be able to see something in it.

See how I managed to insert some Frogspeak in there? Bijstan, at the forefront of multiculturalism :D

Admiral Huddy

28-09-2006, 10:37

Are you sure the memory speeds and frequencies are setup correctly and are on optimal settings?

killerkebab

28-09-2006, 21:28

CPUZ - CPU Page (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/CPUZ1.png)
CPUZ - RAM Page (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/CPUZ2.png)
CPUZ - First slot RAM Page (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/CPUZ3.png)
CPUZ - Second slot RAM Page (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/CPUZ4.png)

There we go for the CPU-Z screenshots (after I googled to find out exactly what CPU-Z is - I am the noob at this stuff). However I do confess to having no idea how to get BIOS screenshots. I can get into my PCs BIOS, but how do I get screenshots of it?

Are you sure the memory speeds and frequencies are setup correctly and are on optimal settings?

The thing is, I don't have a clue what 'optimal settings' are. I bought the parts after having read the specs on the box, and sort of assumed that they would run as it says on the box. Now someone is saying the CPU speed is wrong and possibly the RAM. I am confused...

Mark

28-09-2006, 21:37

However I do confess to having no idea how to get BIOS screenshots. I can get into my PCs BIOS, but how do I get screenshots of it?
Got digital camera? If so, you have an answer (yes, it really is that primitive). :)

Straight away I can see that you're only running at 1.8GHz, and not the CPU's rated 2.4GHz, so that accounts for some (probably most) of the problem.

Looks like you need to hunt around your BIOS for FSB speed. It's set at 200 MHz when it appears it should be 266.

Stan_Lite

28-09-2006, 21:38

There we have the problem. Your motherboard has somehow decided to run your CPU at 200x9 instead of 267x9 so it's only running at 1800 MHz instead of 2400 MHz.

If you know how, change the HTT of your CPU from 200 to 267 to get it running at stock. Better check that your memory is on auto as I see it's running a 1:2 divider to reach it's stock frequency of 400MHz.

If you don't know how to change this stuff post bios pics. You won't be able to get a screenshot so you'll need to take a photo of the screen.

Stan :)

killerkebab

28-09-2006, 21:41

I can't do this tonight but I will get BIOS pictures tomorrow night. Before I leave, however - I found a utility on my Abit disk called 'uGuru', and queried the fans on the PC. Is this data something to worry about?

uGuru pic (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/GURU1.png)

Mark

28-09-2006, 21:44

Yeah, if that reading's right, and you're running at idle, that CPU temp is far too high. Wouldn't worry about the other two warnings as the software appears to be set to warn at any temperature above 0C. :)

Stan_Lite

28-09-2006, 21:52

killerkebab

29-09-2006, 02:49

As CI says, CPU temp is much too high for idle (especially underclocked). Try a different monitoring programme like speedfan (http://www.majorgeeks.com/download337.html)or something, if the temperature is the same, check that your heatsink is seated properly and that the thermal paste is applied properly.

Stan :)

Well for thermal paste, it was the paste which was already applied to the stock heatsink. As for the stock heatsink, I had a HUGE amount of trouble fixing it to the board with the old push until it clips and rotate clockwise. I did as it said and one or more of the clips would feel loose. After an hour I finally thought it was right... according to all this it would appear I am wrong, I guess...

Stan_Lite

29-09-2006, 04:43

I find the new Intel stock heatsinks a pain to fit. I had a hell of a job with my PentiumD 805. Might be worth looking at an aftermarket cooler like the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro or something like that. The Freezer 7 is a doddle to fit and a really effective cooler to boot.

Stan :)

killerkebab

29-09-2006, 15:53

Thank you Stan, I've ordered a Freezer 7 and some arctic silver paste in case I need some more. I don't know when I'll have it by, but since I obviously screwed the installation up the first time around, is it all right if I call you when the time comes to set this new cooler up so I don't make a total mess of it?

I am assuming the reason the CPU is running slowly is because the motherboard is automatically throttling it as it is overheating - either that or the motherboard is on factory settings and it is too dangerous to set it up to 1066 FSB lest I bring the CPU up to 70C or more?

Stan_Lite

29-09-2006, 17:16

Hey, NP dude. Anything I can do to help.

I doubt that the mobo would automatically throttle the CPU frquency but as I said, I've never used an Abit board before so it is possible that such a feature is built in.

You are welcome to call me anytime but I'm on the rig in Egypt at the moment and won't be home until next Friday night. If you can wait until the weekend then I would be happy to help in any way I could. I could do a bit of research on the Abit board and bios in the meantime.

If you didn't live at the opposite end of the country, I'd come and help in person :D

Stan :)

killerkebab

30-09-2006, 14:31

Update for you guys - I have yet to recieve my Freezer 7 and new thermal paste, but I've tried refitting the stock heatsink and fan as far as it will go, making sure I push all the fasteners in as far as they will go and doing my damndest to make sure that the fan will not budge by even a millimetre. Thanks to my brute force, idle temps are down to 44C. Bear in mind this is the coldest I've ever had a CPU, my old Athlon XPs used to (and still do) run at anything ranging from 55C to 75C, but it will probably sound obscene to you.

I have taken a couple pictures of the BIOS on the 'uGuru' part of the BIOS which appears to be where CPU freqs are set:

Picture1 - Main screen (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/BIOS1.jpg)
Picture2 - uGuru setup (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/BIOS2.jpg)

Note: The BIOS says 'user define' but I never defined anything. I can change that 'user define' to a setting called '2399 - 272', if I remember right which sets the CPU to the speed it is meant to be at, more or less. Thing is, will the cooling I have suffice?

I have no doubt the HSF is put in properly - my only doubt lies with thermal paste. On my old processors I had to paste them myself, this one appears to have a small layer already on the HSF, so I didn't dare add some more Arctic Silver 5 I had lying around (it is a year old but the syringe hasn't been opened since). Any ideas or should I wait until I get this new cooler before I get ahead of myself?

Stan_Lite

30-09-2006, 15:04

That temperature is much better but still higher than it should be - mine is about 32 degrees at stock speeds. The thermal goo on the stock heatsinks is usually good but if you've had to fiddle about with it, it may not be covering properly. Some people say that AS5 is ok to use for years but I prefer not to - I find it goes thick and gooey after a while and doesn't spread properly. If you have new stuff coming, I would just wait for that.

In the CPU operating speed section try changing to the auto or default (2399 - 272). Your CPU temperature should (in theory) stay pretty much the same as you're not increasing the voltage at all. keep an eye on the temperature for a while and see what happens.

When you get the Arctic 7 and the new goo, check the temps again and if they are lower, you can try stressing the system for a bit to see what happens to the temperature under load. A good stress testing tool is

Let us know how you get on.

Stan :)

killerkebab

30-09-2006, 15:43

Right, changed the frequencies and ran the tests again (although you failed to say what the stress testing tool was :P)

3dMark test 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/KillerKebab/My%20pictures/test02.jpg)

Also ran 1M SuperPI and got a score of 20 seconds. Checked CPU temperatures after running the tests and its sitting at 52C for now. Anything else I can do?

I notice CPU-Z says my RAM runs at CAS5, but individual sticks at CAS4? Is there something wrong with my setup or is this normal?

Stan_Lite

30-09-2006, 16:11

Oops :embarassed:

Orthos (http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/orthos_exe_20060420.cab)

According to the specifications, your RAM should run at 4-4-4-12. You can set the timings manually (probably in the "advanced chipset features" section of the bios) - you should also be able to set the frequency in there also (not sure what it would be called on your board). This may be set as a ratio (i.e. 1:1 would be a frequency of 272 which you double to give 544. You want to get it to around 800 if possible (if there is a 2:3 ratio setting, this would give you a RAM frequency of 816 which that Corsair should be able to handle no problem at the tighter timings).

I wouldn't run the stress test until you get your idle temp down a bit - if you run orthos as it is, you're likely to get a load temp of around 70 degrees, which isn't deadly but there is no point overheating the thing unnecessarily.

Edit: Your superpi time looks about right now and the CPU score in 3DMark looks much better.

Stan :)

killerkebab

01-10-2006, 21:13

Right I've just had the biggest scare of my life. I thought I watched myself destroy my RAID setup in a flash. Here's what went down.
I went into the 'uGuru' part of the BIOS - it reported RAM speed at 408MHz, which sounded fine to me. Next step, RAM timings. Advanced chipset menu, set timings to 4, 4, 4, and 12. Saved CMOS and exit, computer rebooted - BEEEEEEEP, BEEEEEEEP, BEEEEEEEP.

Obviously it doesn't like my timings, I thought.

So I set about resetting CMOS. Unfortunately this god damned Abit board has the CMOS jumper underneath all of my HDD wires, so I removed them all, reset CMOS, and all sounded good.

I had forgotten to memorise which drive was connected to SATA 8, and which drive was connected to SATA 9 (the RAID ports).

Oh ****.

I tried to set them up from memory. Plugged them in, booted PC. Put the CMOS settings back to what they used to be - i.e: USB keyboard support from BIOS, etc.

Tried to boot...
HARD DISK BOOT FAILURE PLEASE INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER

Oh ****.
So I swap the SATA ports around...
HARD DISK BOOT FAILURE PLEASE INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER

Oh ****, oh ****.
To cut a long story short, it turned out that the SATA power cable was only half into one of the drives, and then I noticed that no matter which way the SATA cables are plugged in, the RAID controller seems to be able to make sense of the drives and the array. Hurrah!

No idea why it won't boot at 4-4-4-12 though :(

Mark

01-10-2006, 21:49

Most RAID arrays worth anything store some data on the disks so they can tell which disk is which. :)

Stan_Lite

02-10-2006, 05:38

Oddly enough, my RAM won't accept 4-4-4-12 either (Geil) or any manually set parameters. It works fine on auto but as soon as I change anything manually - it goes tits up.
I've even tried setting it up manually exactly the same as the auto settings (5-5-5-15 etc.) but it still won't have it :huh:

I ran memtest which showed errors on the first pass but never showed anything again (I have tested it several times now). I will have to try some different RAM when I get back and see if it's a problem with the RAM or with the mobo.

'fraid I can't help you with that at the moment. If I suss something out, I'll let you know.

If it works on auto then that'll be fine for now - DDR2 RAM performance is less dependent on timings than DDR1 was/is.

Glad you got your RAID sorted, that must have had your sphincter twitching.

Stan :)

killerkebab

03-10-2006, 17:10

Arctic Freezer 7 and some Silver 5 paste have just arrived. Quick question before I attempt the switch: Is the slim layer of paste on the bottom of the Freezer7 enough, or should I add some more from the tube of AS5 I ordered? How much is enough? How can I spread the paste if need be? Do I apply the paste onto the cooler or onto the CPU?

Sorry for all these questions guys, I'm nearly there, promise :)

Daz

03-10-2006, 17:12

Have a read here (http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.html) :)

Stan_Lite

03-10-2006, 17:19

If the goo is already applied to the heatsink, that should do fine (I didn't know the Arctic 7 came with goo applied - you could have saved yourself a few quid).

Make sure you get all of the old paste off the CPU before you stick it all together. If the paste is too thick or uneven, you won't get good heat distribution.
Wiping it off thoroughly with a tissue would do but it's better if you use some solvent (Isopropyl alcohol from the chemist does nicely - the purer the better).

If you want, you can take the pre-applied stuff off the heatsink and apply the AS5 but, TBH you probably wouldn't notice more than a degree or so of difference - it's usually pretty good and evenly applied.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like :)

Stan :)

Stan_Lite

03-10-2006, 17:21

Have a read here (http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.html) :)

This works but I find I get slightly better results by spreading the goo evenly with a plastic (credit type) card (using the same quantities).

Stan :)

killerkebab

05-10-2006, 21:01

Stan_Lite

09-10-2006, 17:57

Well friends, I got the Isopropyl and gave my CPU a quick wipe and used the goo already on my heatsink as per Stan's instructions. I then installed the AF7.

Started the PC up and... 28-32C on idle :D

I have got to thank you guys, I would never have been able to do it on my own and you have all just saved my system. If there's ever anything I can do for you, let me know and I'll do it.
I already owe you all a pint of whatever drink you like :)

Glad to have helped dude, hope everything goes all right from now :)

You do realise that you've just offered to buy a pint of whatever I want to the guy who had a pint of whisky at the London meet ;D

Stan :)