View Full Version : Backwards Compatible PS3
Hi
Am looking to get a PS3, but want to get one of the ones that are backwards compatible, so I can still play the PS2 games that I have. (Will the PS2 singstar mics work with the PS3? I am thinking not?)
Anyway been looking at auctions like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250575861749&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Just missed out on one for £250 :(
One of the auctions states:
"The Playstation is in excellent condition, one thing i should mention is sometimes the discs don't load however this is common with 60gb and original PS3's, I just take them out and put them back in again. All the games are original and work perfectly."
Is this a known problem does anyone know?
Any advice on where to get my hands on one would be brill xx
Thanks :D
BB x
leowyatt
14-02-2010, 21:20
I'd say somewhere like gamestation could be another option
A Place of Light
14-02-2010, 21:36
Wasnt this lack of backwards compatibility due to Sony changing one or more of the chips on the euro (or just BG) models?
Was there a specific reason they did this, or was it just to pee us off?
Was there a specific reason they did this, or was it just to pee us off?
This is what I have heard :(
BB x
Yes - Sony pulled the "Graphics Synthesizer" GPU chip from newer PS3 models - presumably to save on production costs (PS2 games on the PS3 don't make them any more revenue, after all). They also stripped OtherOS (a.k.a. Linux) support from the PS3 slim, presumably for the same reason.
A Place of Light
14-02-2010, 21:45
Yes - Sony pulled the "Graphics Synthesizer" GPU chip from newer PS3 models - presumably to save on production costs (PS2 games on the PS3 don't make them any more revenue, after all). They also stripped OtherOS (a.k.a. Linux) support from the PS3 slim, presumably for the same reason.
TBH I thought they'd pulled that chip from all UK models. I didn't realise that some early revisions made it through and I thought that was why, when they first appeared, the geek squad were all saying that the smart consumer should buy a Jap domestic console.
A Place of Light
14-02-2010, 21:47
This is what I have heard :(
BB x
Lets be honest.
Theyd never admit that was the reason, but it's bloody likely that's just what it was, isn't it? :p
TBH I thought they'd pulled that chip from all UK models. I didn't realise that some early revisions made it through and I thought that was why, when they first appeared, the geek squad were all saying that the smart consumer should buy a Jap domestic console.
That might well be the case. I've only been researching the PS3 a bit as a result of geohot's 'hack'. I don't own one (and neither do I own any PS2 games). :)
Could you not keep your current PS2 Mei?
I'd be a bit loathed to buy second hand considering the 60gb PS3s are getting on a bit now. I'd be suspicious of the auction too if they're already saying it has problems!
If it does have to be a 60gb version though, I'd go somewhere like Gamestation or Game as afaik they both offer a year's warranty on pre-owned consoles.
A Place of Light
14-02-2010, 21:50
geohot's 'hack'
Meh, you lost me
:D
leowyatt
14-02-2010, 21:58
be wary though with the repairs as a friend's 60gb model was sent off for repair and Sony sent him back a "better" PS3 stating the 60gb couldn't be fixed so was replaced.
Pumpkinstew
14-02-2010, 23:38
From what I remember the chip that enabled the PS3 to play PS2 games was removed from European models and replaced with software emulation to keep costs down.
Wiki, as always, seems to know more than me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS3#Original_model
According to that the only PAL model with any PS2 support is the 60GB 'original'.
Could you not keep your current PS2 Mei?
I'd be a bit loathed to buy second hand considering the 60gb PS3s are getting on a bit now. I'd be suspicious of the auction too if they're already saying it has problems!
If it does have to be a 60gb version though, I'd go somewhere like Gamestation or Game as afaik they both offer a year's warranty on pre-owned consoles.
Cool thanks :)
I'd rather just have one console and thought this would be the solution.
Hmm.. I think they are still so popular that I have been in a couple of GS and Game store this weekend to no avail :(
BB x
Yeah they're getting like gold dust now and sounds like Sony are out of refurbs looking at the problems Leo's mate had!
Not sure if you've ever used OcUK's Members Market, but someone's selling one on there at the moment: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18110939
I'd be more inclined to get a second hand PS3 from somewhere like that although I'd still say buying new or at least from somewhere like Gamestation or Game is a safer bet, simply for warranty's sake if the worst comes to the worst in the future.
As awkward as it is, you might be best off to have a PS2 and PS3. Maybe consider getting a slimline PS2 from somewhere like Game? They're about £40 now second hand iirc and still get a warranty etc. Plus you save on space, they're ridiculously tiny! Brilliant little things :D
Not an ideal solution but just trying to come up with a few different ideas for you :)
Streeteh
15-02-2010, 00:52
Scuttlebutt says that software emulation for PS2 titles could be in the works. If true then that means that all PS3s, regardless of model, will be able to play at least some PS2 titles. I'd be very wary of 60GB PS3s, they're more reliable than the 360s of the same era but still unacceptably unreliable. The completely abhorrent levels of 360 failures overshadowed the PS3 failures of that 'era' so not many people seem to realize they're unreliable too.
I'd go for a slim PS3 now and hold on to your PS2 and hope for a backwards compatibility patch. If that doesn't work out then just fork out the £40 for a teeny tiny slim PS2 and hide it behind the TV stand like i do :)
Psymonkee
15-02-2010, 01:30
What PS2 games do you still play? Most peripherals are still compatible iirc (USB connection?) so you can still play singstar ;)
Pumpkinstew
15-02-2010, 12:17
Scuttlebutt says that software emulation for PS2 titles could be in the works.
It's a big opportunity to flog classic PS2 games over the Playstation Network for more than the cost of a disc secondhand, isn't it?
Streeteh
15-02-2010, 12:35
It's a big opportunity to flog classic PS2 games over the Playstation Network for more than the cost of a disc secondhand, isn't it?
That's the rumour. I'd hope they also allow the disk versions to work as i can't see a reason why one would work and the other wouldn't. But then these days i've accepted these companies will do everything they can to pinch a penny from their customer base so i wouldn't be shocked if disks never work again.
They could make the same argument MS made with original Xbox compatibility (ie they commit resource to checking/fixing compatibility and want revenue for that)., but as they actually have a working software emulation out in the wild it would be difficult to swallow.
As you, I wouldn't be surprised if they didnt support discs though.
(side note: disk or disc?)
Pumpkinstew
15-02-2010, 13:55
(side note: disk or disc?)
Floppy Disk because it's short for diskette.
Compact Disc/ Digital Versatile Disc because it's round and flat.
Pumpkinstew
15-02-2010, 14:01
If the PS2 originals aren't supported then I hope they add some additional PSN functions to what they're selling (trophies and online play and whatnot) because otherwise it's just too much like shovelware.
How many people would repurchase Gran Turismo if there was the option for global leaderboards and online play?
Not sure if you've ever used OcUK's Members Market, but someone's selling one on there at the moment: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18110939
I'd be more inclined to get a second hand PS3 from somewhere like that although I'd still say buying new or at least from somewhere like Gamestation or Game is a safer bet, simply for warranty's sake if the worst comes to the worst in the future.
Not an ideal solution but just trying to come up with a few different ideas for you :)
Thanks Haly :)
Yeah I saw that one, but my bro said pretty much the same thing - might aswell get a brand new one. Cheapest offer though with all the games. hmmm
BB x
Thanks Haly :)
Yeah I saw that one, but my bro said pretty much the same thing - might aswell get a brand new one. Cheapest offer though with all the games. hmmm
BB x
Loads of food for thought :D
Good luck with what you decide :)
What PS2 games do you still play? Most peripherals are still compatible iirc (USB connection?) so you can still play singstar ;)
How did you guess? :p lol. So if the mics work and the machine is backwards compatible, the games should work too in the PS3?
Think I might go with the OCUK guy. For less than the auction in my first post I get the games and two blu rays.
*scratches chin*
BB x
Psymonkee
15-02-2010, 20:25
Mic's I think are backward compatible but you'd need to get the all new PS3 singstar :(
But they do a Queen version so YAY! :D
NokkonWud
16-02-2010, 13:21
They took away backwards compatibility because they released another PS2 and it had a real sales surge, so they didn't want to stop that. The fact it's software emulation means they could essentially re-add it at any time, but for some reason they haven't.
I've heard they'll be releasing a large downloadable back catalogue on the PSN, but so far nothing has really shown up. I just hope that if they do, they price them better than Microsoft do on the Xbox360! :o
Streeteh
16-02-2010, 15:32
They took away backwards compatibility because they released another PS2 and it had a real sales surge, so they didn't want to stop that. The fact it's software emulation means they could essentially re-add it at any time, but for some reason they haven't.
That isn't true. They took out hardware required for backwards compatibility to cut costs as the £400+ price tag was resulting in awful sales. The 60GB has a PS2 GPU built in but used software emulation for the CPU, the removal of that GPU in the 40GB and later models in order to cut costs rendered that form of emulation useless. In order to reintroduce PS2 backward compat they would have to completely recode the emulator to also emulate a PS2 GPU as well as the CPU.
An easy task on the PC where there is loads of extra grunt to play with, but seeing as the PS3 GPU is rather lacking in comparison to todays hardware it would have to be far more efficient than the existing free emulators you can find on the PC.
(side note: disk or disc?)
If we're being proper about it, it's "disc" for CDs and other removable media, and disk for hard disks and other non-removable storage.
NokkonWud
17-02-2010, 13:25
That isn't true. They took out hardware required for backwards compatibility to cut costs as the £400+ price tag was resulting in awful sales. The 60GB has a PS2 GPU built in but used software emulation for the CPU, the removal of that GPU in the 40GB and later models in order to cut costs rendered that form of emulation useless. In order to reintroduce PS2 backward compat they would have to completely recode the emulator to also emulate a PS2 GPU as well as the CPU.
An easy task on the PC where there is loads of extra grunt to play with, but seeing as the PS3 GPU is rather lacking in comparison to todays hardware it would have to be far more efficient than the existing free emulators you can find on the PC.
The GPU was modified, but the hardware is still capable of it, yet Sony have seemingly done everything in their power to not push it. Then again, you can't say it's out of sorts this generation for Sony being slow at getting everything ready.
PS2 emulation on PS3's will come, but you just know it's gonna be a paid for service.
I'm going to CEX in Tott Court Rd tonight as apparently they have a couple there.
BB x
Good luck :) And make sure there's some sort of warranty if you go for it!
My bro said that there is apparently if you buy off of them.
BB x
Streeteh
17-02-2010, 15:03
but the hardware is still capable of it
Unless you mean that the hardware is capable with a rewrite of the PS2 emulator then you're wrong. As it stands the hardware in the 40GB units and onwards lack the hardware required to run PS2 games with the PS2 emulator written for the 60GB PS3. A complete rewrite of the emulator would be required to allow for later models to run PS2 games, it isn't a case of 'just holding it back' as you seem to think, they're probably in the process or may have even completed recoding the emulator but the existing one wasn't just removed, it stopped working. Evidence of this can be found in the fact that PS2 games can be launched on 40GB PS3s using a hack, however only menus etc will be usable, as soon as the actual game starts it crashes due to the lack of the Emotion Engine chip in the 60GB PS3.
Also, the GPU wasn't modified, it was outright removed.
60GB:
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4623/ps332.jpg
40GB:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9337/4630965535d0d336b3f.jpg
Notice how the EE chip is completely missing from the bottom left of the PCB.
NokkonWud
17-02-2010, 15:53
I always thought the EU never had an EE chip and that those were in the NTFS models?
As far as I aware that was the case, no EU PS3 ever had the EE chip in it, 60GB included.
edit - in fact, I think those pictures are wrong. What Streeteh has labelled a 40GB is in fact an EU 60GB.
A 40GB looks like:
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BK40GB.jpg
According to this article:
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2009/08/01/putting-ps3-on-a-diet/
Summary seems to be the EU 60GB lost the EE chip but retained the graphics synthesizer, then the 40GB lost the synthesizer too.
Streeteh
17-02-2010, 17:14
Doh! Aye, the EE is in fact the CPU, which was indeed removed from the 60GB EU PS3. But it's not the CPU that i meant had been removed, as i said previously the CPU was emulated by the cell in the PS3. I still maintain that the graphic synthesiser used in the PS2 was previously present in the 60GB PS3 and removed in the 40GB. As a result the half-software emulator for PS2 games in the 60GB no longer worked because the GPU was no longer present.
[EDIT] If you can be bothered, have a look at the one i claimed was a 40gb (which is actually a EU60gb) and look for what i think is the PS2 graphic synthesiser at the middle left of the circuit board (it looks near identical to the GS in the PS2 which is what i've based this assumption on). Then look at divines correct 40gb picture, that chip is missing.
The chip i'm referring to is this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Neweegs.JPG
The above is actually a photo taken of the PS2 GS
Damn it! Just checked the website and they don't seem to have any now - I swear they did at lunchtime! Grr!
BB x
Damn it! Just checked the website and they don't seem to have any now - I swear they did at lunchtime! Grr!
BB x
:(
Yeh the guy in the shop said to get one online. Then another guy said what others have said here: get a ps2 slim and a separate ps3. As the ps2 games - only 85% run ok, others run slower.
Acck! Don't know what to do! Thanks for the offer Lozz :)
BB x
Then another guy said what others have said here: get a ps2 slim and a separate ps3.
Do that :p :)
Streeteh
18-02-2010, 08:47
Way i see it is, if Sony do in fact release software emulated backward compatibility for everyone and you forked out for a 60GB you'd feel a bit cheated. If however you buy a slim PS2 and a slim PS3, you get to play all your games and if they release software BC you just copy the game saves to your PS3 and then sell the PS2.
Way i see it is, if Sony do in fact release software emulated backward compatibility for everyone and you forked out for a 60GB you'd feel a bit cheated. If however you buy a slim PS2 and a slim PS3, you get to play all your games and if they release software BC you just copy the game saves to your PS3 and then sell the PS2.
OK ok I will save my money ;D
Streeteh - I've got to say, that's the only post of yours in this thread that I actually have understood :o
Thank you for your comments though!
BB x
Streeteh
18-02-2010, 10:25
Sorry, i seem to have developed a bad habit of taking threads off topic lately :o
No no! It was all relevant and useful! :) I am just a noob and don't understand all of your technological info ;)
BB x
NokkonWud
18-02-2010, 14:34
Outside of Soap and soap, stuff does go ever BBx's head :p.
I'm gonna go along with the others, PS2 Slim and a PS3 Slim, then you have something to sell later on.
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