View Full Version : Cooking with Jonny69: baking bread.
I really love fresh bread and a couple of events have turned me to baking my own. Firstly my local Sainsburys does really lousy bakery bread. It's dense, tastes undercooked and goes stale really quickly. I recently found out that they bring in par-baked loaves and finish them in-store, which explains that. The second event is my local bakery finally closed, which is a total blow to the high-street and all I'm left with is a chain bakery which does average bread at a premium price.
I've been meaning to start a baking thread for some time because I'd had a whole string of baking disasters and wanted some advice. I know there are keen bakers and breadmaker owners on here and you'd easily be able to point out where I was going wrong. Turns out a bit of trial and error was all it needed so I could learn what was happening and now I'm ready to start a thread on baking that I can kick off with a picture of my first really decent loaf!
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_5473.JPG
It took seven attempts to get it to this stage, which might sound like a lot but getting the right amount of water and yeast, the kneading and proving times and the baking took a bit of trial and error because I'd read so many different ways of making bread. Hopefully I can share the details with you so you can jump in and make a decent loaf straight off. There are just a few tricks here that make it work at home in your home kitchen, with no special equipment.
This recipe will make one 500g basic loaf of white bread in your oven.
Ingredients:
300g strong white bread flour
25g olive oil or butter
1 level teaspoon sugar
1 level teaspoon salt
1 level teaspoon dried yeast
180ml warm water
You need two 25cm bread tins, ideally.
The first thing to do before you do anything else, and this is very important, is to turn the oven on at the highest temperature it will go to. This ensures the oven is fully preheated, but the heat from the oven will warm the kitchen and it'll make the bread rise.
You must use 'strong' flour, which has a high gluten content compared to self raising flour, otherwise it'll come out like a cake. I would stick to a higher quality flour to start with, so avoid the basic supermarket brand and use Hovis dried yeast. There may be no truth in doing that but it eliminates the ingredients being to blame if the bread doesn't come out right and you can concentrate on your method.
Measure the flour into a large mixing bowl. Rub in the butter or olive oil, mix in the sugar, salt and dried yeast. Tip in the warm water and mix everything together with your fingers. You should have quite a sticky dough that sticks to your hands and fingers at this stage.
Now you have to knead the dough. This works the water into the flour and stretches the gluten. It's this stage that determines how springy and stretchy your bread is. If you don't knead it the dough will rise but the bread will have a texture like a sponge cake rather than springy and stretchy. You have a choice how you knead it. If you choose to knead it by hand then you should do it on a smooth surface for a minimum of 10 minutes, 12 is better. My hand mixer has a pair of dough hooks which I thought would be rubbish, but it's a lot easier and you can let it do its work for about 7 minutes.
After kneading, the dough is much smoother in texture, less sticky and it starts to feel rubbery instead. Put it back in the mixing bowl, cover the bowl with clingfilm and leave it on the worktop near the oven for 30-40 minutes. You'll see it rise in this time, increasing between 1.5 and 2 times its original size depending how warm the kitchen is. The clingfilm is important here. It stops the dough drying out and traps heat in the bowl, which dough likes when rising.
Take a 25cm long bread tin, grease it with butter and carefully scoop the risen dough into the tin. Push it into the corners trying not to knock too much of the air out of it. It should fill the tin up to about half way and although scooping the dough into the tin will have knocked it back a bit, we're going to re-rise it to get the volume back up. The kitchen should be nice and warm and humid now, perfect conditions.
Put the other bread tin on top so the dough can rise into it and stand it on the worktop near the oven, as before. Leave it for 45 minutes to an hour and the dough will have risen above the top of the tin. Once it's that big it's ready to bake. If it hasn't risen high enough then just leave it longer; it will rise but if it's not warm enough it may need another half an hour or so.
I've found this second rise is what's needed to stop the bread tasting yeasty. So while you could put it straight in the tin and rise it in one go, I think it tastes better if you do two rises.
Take off the top tin, heavily dust the top of the dough with bread flour and put it in the oven. Bake it at top temperature in the oven for 12 minutes and you'll see the crust will go very dark, turn the oven off completely and let it sit for a further 10 minutes to bake all the way through. Take it out, allow to cool for a few minutes and put it on a wire rack to cool completely. You should have a nice crusty loaf with a soft interior full of bubbles that slices easily like this:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_5475.JPG
Cost:
Flour: 25p
Other ingredients: negligible.
Power: 250W mixing for 10 mins = 0.5p, 3000W oven for 2 hrs = 75p approx.
Total cost: max £1.
Ok bakers, now it's your turn. Tell us about your baking!
Jimmy_Lemon
08-04-2010, 14:38
Looks nice, but sounds easier just to find a new Sainsburys, my local one does lovely fresh bread :)
/me goes off to see if he has any flour
Welcome aboard fella :) (even though it appears you've been around a while :D)
Yeah, the one in Southampton where her folks live does fantastic bread but it's a pathetic offering where I am. Frustrating. I walk to the supermarket though, so I'm reluctant to go driving just for a loaf of bread.
I've not made bread for ages, I should get back into the habit. I must also remember to get my Mum's Irish soda bread recipe - lovely stuff.
And make sure it comes this way as well, of course ;)
Unless it's a secret recipe :(
Jimmy_Lemon
08-04-2010, 18:33
Amazed that is my first post, sure I had 'spoken' before. Anyway had a look for flour, seems I only have some really old manky stuff, I did buy some bread mixes at Christmas which still seems to be in date....a bit of a cheat, but then I am a lazy mofo, so might give that a whirl over the weekend :)
And make sure it comes this way as well, of course ;)
Unless it's a secret recipe :(
It isn't a secret recipe so I'll be sure to post it once I've seen Mum.
I miss eating bread :( Cyprus can't come soon enough! :D
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_5511.JPG
Sunday's loaf. I didn't use any sugar in this loaf and I think I preferred the taste. The crust didn't go as dark but I think that's no problem as it was just as crisp.
Looking good.
I've been making my own bread for a few years now.
I'll throw a few random thoughts your way; I'm by no means an expert but it's good to share :)
I find the supermarkets bread flour more than adequate for daily loaves though these days I tend to use 30% whole flour to 70% white.
To cover the dough while it's raising I use a tea towel thats been run under the hot tap.
I use olive oil for the most part but do enjoy the taste of butter especially for all white bread rolls.
I stopped using sugar years ago and sometimes drop the salt.
Try making a stromboli; rolled dough with pesto / cheese / veg / salami inside easy than you think and absolutely nom.
The thing that surprised me a few years ago when I started (first with pizza bases) is how easy it is. I really recommend everyone has a go.
Cheers for that Boobies :)
I had another go at brown on Sunday evening. I used a bit more water than with white and extra salt because the brown flour can take it. No sugar, again. It came out much better than before and I might add some white flour to it next time and do a sort of half and half.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4260/img5526.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1579/img5527r.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2452/img5529p.jpg
I could do with finding a square tin so my loaves have bigger slices though. Otherwise I've got to slice along the length to get a man-size sandwich :D
LeperousDust
20-04-2010, 16:19
These look ammaaaaazing!
//Wants bread
wow awesome looking.
Have you ever tried making sour dough loafs? I haven't myself but want to try.
Not yet. She keeps buying more flour so it might be a while.
Those loaves look beautiful Jonny!!
I really like the Allinson Seed & Grain flour (http://www.allinsonflour.co.uk/products/seed-and-grain-bread-flour.html) as well as the Oatmill White flour (http://www.allinsonflour.co.uk/products/oatmill-white-bread-flour.html). Adds a lot of texture to the loaf without making it heavy.
The Alinson one is the latest one we've got. It does look very tasty.
Mmmm they all look delish!
Here's a nice semi-granary from a few weeks ago:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_5550.JPG
Home baked brown bread is a bit heavy, I've found, so what I've been doing is using mainly white flour and adding 1/5 brown. Last night's effort:
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1756/img6062g.jpg
Lovely dark crust on it but it keeps the lightness of white bread. It's not as singed as it looks in the picture. I had an outside white balance set on the camera and GIMP overly corrected it :D
I bought some (rather expensive) spelt flour earlier in the week and baked a bigger loaf than normal. It's odd stuff, rough to the touch, holds a lot of water and very stretchy. I made the loaf with 1/5 spelt and the rest normal flour. Baked for a bit longer so it had a nice thick crust. It was nice but I couldn't "tell" it was spelt, if that makes sense. Going to make the next one with a higher quantity of spelt and see how it comes out. No pictures unfortunately, it got eated up very quickly :D
I find using 100% brown flour is too much too so usual do a 50/50 (in the bread maker)
What's special about spelt flour?
Spelt is an ancient relative of wheat. I haven't read up on it properly but it makes a pretty hefty rustic loaf. Something you can get in your hands and go RARRGH about :D Comes in white and brown and I got the white.
I had a go at a plait tonight. Normal dough but rolled into 3 long sausages, then plaited together. Let it re-rise under a damp tea towel and bake as usual...
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3486/img6397u.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2690/img6404h.jpg
I already started it even though it was too hot to hold when I cut it :cool:
I've baked quite a lot of bread now and I know when a loaf is going to be good or not. I can tell by how much it has risen, how fast, how much it popped up in the oven and the weight when it's baked. Tonight is a good one and I couldn't resist a picture:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_6921.JPG
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_6923.JPG
First pic next to half a glass of home brewed blackberry wine. Happy days :cool:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_5511.JPG
This is my kind of loaf.. I don't like too crusty
I really want to have a try at making pitta breads. Any experience there Jonny?
Yes, could have sworn I'd posted about them.
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_6728.JPG
Ingredients (makes 6 very large pitta):
300g strong white bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon instant yeast
1 tablespoon olive oil
200ml warm water
Get the oven on to 250 degrees C. Nice and hot.
Tip all the dry ingredients into a bowl and rub in the olive oil. Add the water to make a sticky dough. Knead this for 10 minutes or use the dough hooks on your hand mixer for a few minutes, as I do. It should come together into a smooth ball, but add a little extra flour if you need to. You're looking to make a dough that's slightly softer than if you were making bread. Put the dough back in the bowl with a damp teatowel over the top and allow it to rise in a warm place for about an hour.
Get a baking tray ready and two pieces of baking paper cut to fit it. The pitta won't be baked on the tray, but the tray will be used for a second prove.
Turn the dough out of the bowl and divide it into six balls. Flour your work surface well with bread flour, drop one of the balls onto it and roll it out into an oval about 5mm thick max. You'll find it pings back to shape and it'll take quite a bit of pulling and rolling and extra flour needed. This is why the dough needs to be quite wet compared to bread. Flour one of the sheets of baking paper and stretch the pitta on. You should be able to get three on it, dust well with flour and cover with a damp teatowel. Then on top of that put the other sheet of baking paper, flour, three more pitta, flour and another damp teatowel. Let that prove for about 30 minutes. The pitta won't rise much, but it lets the dough relax etc.
Bake them on the paper without the tray for about 7-8 minutes, depending how hot your oven gets. They will pop up off the paper and puff up, completely hollow like these:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_6727.JPG
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_6729.JPG
Now cut them open and think about what you can stuff them with. Today I've got chicken, stuffing and home made coleslaw. Nyom nyom nyom :D
SidewinderINC
19-05-2011, 12:19
You can combine this with homebrewing... Once you've started a big brew, about 3 days later carefully (with a sterilised jug) remove the amount of liquid you need for your bread.
This will have yeast in suspension that will do their job and you'll end up with a sweet (insert beverage name) bread :)
Knipples
19-05-2011, 18:45
Marry me Jonny, or at the very least send me some bread! :D
Yes, could have sworn I'd posted about them.
hmm seeing that yes you did! As I have seen it before!
Marry me Jonny, or at the very least send me some bread! :D
Loaves in the post. Will have to spoil the surprise though, there's a ring hidden in one of them so don't swallow it :p :D
I thought I would finally join you Johnny, all your stuff looks so good.
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7609/imageohu.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3750/imagecnf.jpg
Just got the sough dough starter on
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2654/imagersn.jpg
Ingredients
125g organic wholemeal wheat flour (preferably stoneground)
190g slightly warm water
Day 1
Mix the ingredients well, cover with a cotton tea-towel and place in a draught-free, “not cold” spot in your kitchen. Leave undisturbed until the next morning.
Day 2
In the morning, give the mix a good stir and replace the tea-towel.
Tip - Choose a time which is convenient for you and try attend to your starter at the same time each morning.
Day 3 - 6
Each morning check you starter. When you see a little bubbly activity, things are moving.
If you have bubbles, a slightly sour or acid smell and a pleasant yeasty even “grassy” aroma, your starter is “on the way” and you are ready to move on to the next stage, Growth. This is an important stage and as soon as activity is observed as bubbling or slight froth, move to the growth stage.
If your starter is not “on the way”, stir and walk away until the next day.
Tip - Activity is more likely to be evident in summer, but in cold climates be patient. If no activity has happened by day 5, it’s a concern; persevere for another day, but you may have to start again.
Growth
Day 1
Celebrate the arrival of your new life partner!
Add the original Ingredients (125g organic wholemeal wheat flour and 190g slightly warm water) to your starter and stir them in.
Day 2
Next morning, pour off half of your starter. You do not need this half.
Take the remaining half, and refresh it. To refresh your starter add the original* ingredients and stir them in.
Day 3 - 9
Every day for a week, pour off half of you starter and refresh it.
By this time, which may be as long as 2 weeks after you began, your starter will be nicely active and ready to make the first loaf.
Sour dough is next on my list of to-do's with bread. Keep meaning to stick on a starter.
Stan_Lite
29-11-2011, 16:21
Made myself some bread rolls today - first time I've ever made my own bread.
I thought I'd start off simple so i got some Waitrose strong white bread flour and some quick yeast. I basically followed the recipe on the yeast packet and they seem to have turned out quite well.
http://i.imgur.com/23Xvv.jpg
They're a little denser and heavier than I would like but are tasty and certainly edible - I've had two already :D
A couple of lessons learned. At first, the place I was proving them wasn't warm enough and the dough didn't rise properly. Once I'd got it a bit warmer, they increased in size as they should. Secondly, I'll do them in more batches as they squished together - I'd rather they were completely separate.
On the whole, I'm pretty happy with how they turned out for a first attempt. I think I'll make a loaf tomorrow and then, when i get back from work in January, I'll start trying new things like different flours and yeasts etc.
It's quite fun and very satisfying making your own bread.
Stan_Lite
30-11-2011, 18:38
Made some wholemeal bread today.
http://i.imgur.com/BYOME.jpg
Made it with half wholemeal and half white flour as I read that pure wholemeal can tend to be a bit heavy. Pretty much the same recipe as for the rolls yesterday.
It turned out really nice. Quite light - not much heavier than shop bought. Tastes really nice too. I'm really enjoying making my own stuff. I have to go to work on Monday and won't be back until the beginning of January. I'm looking forward to making more stuff and trying new things when I get back :cool:
Stan_Lite
08-01-2012, 13:35
Did you ever have any luck finding a square loaf tin Jonny? I've been searching around but can't seem to find one. I've found plenty of square cake tins but they're all too shallow for making bread.
No, I have a shorter wider one that I inherited, but I haven't seen one in the shops.
LeperousDust
08-01-2012, 20:40
What about amazon Stan?
Stan_Lite
08-01-2012, 21:07
What about amazon Stan?
First place I looked :(
I thought I'd update this thread with last night's loaf which is proving popular on the blue site.
I'm still using a hand mixer to knead the dough with dough hooks, which takes about 5 minutes. I'm doing most of my loaves on a floured tray at the moment, rising once in the bowl, shaping into a loaf, dust with flour, allow to rise again on a floured baking tray uncovered, slash the top a few times and bake at top temperature (250 degrees) for 30-35 minutes. No water or ice added to the oven, just full whack :)
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_7868.JPG
Ingredients are 450g flour, 300ml warm water, 1.5 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp instant yeast.
LeperousDust
19-07-2012, 20:26
Just out of interest what bread knives do you use to cut your loaves? I think my biggest problem is the one I have is ****/old/blunt (delete as appropriate). But I cannot cut home baked bread no matter how long I leave it standing nicely!
SidewinderINC
19-07-2012, 20:54
what is it about it that makes it difficult for you to cut?
LeperousDust
28-07-2012, 01:00
I'll take a video of me cutting my next loaf if I remember. It just generaly doesnt work, mushed bread or a mess, or slices which are great for soup but too big even for me for sandwiches!
leowyatt
28-07-2012, 15:46
Do you have an electric carving knife? I find that works a treat :)
LeperousDust
29-07-2012, 15:35
Haven't caved and bought one, but people keep saying try one! Maayyybbbeee I just don't understand why I should need an electric carving knife! ;D:D
Think it works because it cuts without the pressure that you need to put on a regular knife. It really does work, even malt loaf doesn't squish!
I've just got a good sharp BIG bread knife. No need for a leccy one imo.
Edit: the sawing back and forth action should cut the bread, not pushing down. Maybe I'll video me cutting a slice too ;D
I'm crap at cutting bread straight, but find that homemade bread is loads better than super soft shop bought or breadmaker bread for slicing. I use a sawing action with no pressure like Jonny said and just take it slowly so I don't end up with an uneven wedge. I sometimes turn the loaf as I'm cutting to make sure it's even. I think another key point is to let it cool down before you cut it too. If I start cutting up a loaf which has just come out of the oven, it's a bit of a mess.
We didn't buy the knife, it was a h/w present from years ago, but it works a treat!
My Dad uses an electric carving knife to cut bread when he's cutting lots of slices for sandwiches etc. Works a treat!
leowyatt
05-08-2012, 15:50
Not bad for loaf number. Could do with being a it lighter but am quite pleased :) 1140141
I discovered a cunning way to make sandwich loaves more consistent. I don't like the way they rise really high in the middle and leave you with small slices at the ends. I tried shaping the dough so it was higher at the ends than in the middle but it was a faff. Much easier is to split the dough into two, roll into two balls and plop them in the tin next to each other. The balls rise into each other and the result is this:
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_7990.JPG
http://www.jonny69.co.uk/uploads/cooking/bread/IMG_7989.JPG
I suppose in theory you could try doing that with different combos like three balls in a row, or 8 in a 4x2 pattern, to see what gives you the most consistent shape :p
Interesting idea, I shall try it :D
SidewinderINC
28-08-2012, 09:32
I suppose in theory you could try doing that with different combos like three balls in a row, or 8 in a 4x2 pattern, to see what gives you the most consistent shape :p
You'll end up with bread looking like the early stages of embryo cell division :p
That one looks like boobs in a too tight bra!
That must be why I like it so much :D
That's how they make brioche. Dollop separate balls of dough into the mould to get that bobbley texture on top. It's a bloomin' good idea actually!
That one looks like boobs in a too tight bra!
Hahaha;D
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