View Full Version : Gordon Brown - gone!
Knipples
10-05-2010, 17:41
Stepping down as leader of the labour party. Can't say i'm surprised.
should of done that before the election - they might of got a few more votes that way!
uhoh, that means that they may try and stay in with Labour / Lib pact. The big big problem is relying on the nationals, and they have made it clear they will screw the gov't for their vote :( Interesting times.
Matblack
10-05-2010, 18:25
I refer the honorable gentleman to the post I made earlier :)
http://www.boat-drinks.co.uk/showpost.php?p=349442&postcount=160
MB
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
And I missed the announcement by two minutes. I so wanted to see that - for no other reason than because I wanted to. :)
I refer the honorable gentleman to the post I made earlier :)
http://www.boat-drinks.co.uk/showpost.php?p=349442&postcount=160
MB
I knew someone had said it before, but I couldn't remember who/where. It's going to be an interesting few days.
Blighter
10-05-2010, 20:48
It must have been the talks about the rainbow coalition that did it - after all, there is no brown in a rainbow!
Del Lardo
10-05-2010, 20:50
And I missed the announcement by two minutes. I so wanted to see that - for no other reason than because I wanted to. :)
Jacqui Smith being fired was far far far better ;D
Jacqui Smith being fired was far far far better ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1-hqMcr2z4
Oh God. I've only got my head around what a Hung Parliament is...
More complicated!!!
Anyone have an idiots guide to politics?!
BB x
Matblack
10-05-2010, 21:30
This is a good start on the current situation :)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8427233.stm
MB
Not yet he isn't.
He wants a replacement by September.
Which I imagine will be around the next general election.
I can't see any government working. Be that con/lib lab/lib or con minority.
If a government is not formed I can see this hurting lib and labour.
Lib are in their best position to actually have some say in parliament and some policies implemented. Labour are ailianting people by trying to hang on to power. Which most people see as wrong. I can also see a massive drop in voters as people can't be bothered to vote for this shambles.
Von Smallhausen
10-05-2010, 22:42
A Lib/Lab coalition just about guarantees their decimation at the next election.
semi-pro waster
11-05-2010, 10:51
For a party that supposedly has a lot of power at present as "kingmakers" the Liberal Democrats are in a fairly unenviable position - they either go with the Conservatives whom they disagree on a number of policies with and may well not get the desired voting reforms or the go with Labour in a minority coalition government that doesn't look likely to be popular, they do agree on more policies and they may get closer to their desired voting reforms but it seems unlikely that it would be a particularly strong government as it would always be only a couple of dissenters away from losing any vote.
There's also, of course, the issue that Nick Clegg has intimated that they would throw their weight behind the party that had won the most seats which they do not appear particularly inclined to do given the policy (and possibly other) disagreements. They may still do so but this vacillating does not give the best of impressions.
There's also, of course, the issue that Nick Clegg has intimated that they would throw their weight behind the party that had won the most seats which they do not appear particularly inclined to do given the policy (and possibly other) disagreements. They may still do so but this vacillating does not give the best of impressions.
People keep saying this and I really don't agree, all Clegg ever said was that whoever got the most seats should be allowed first crack at forming a government, which is so far what is happening seeing as constitutionally Labour were the ones who should have been wheeling and dealing first but instead the Conservatives got first go at discussing with the Lib Dems.
I'm really not convinced that what he said (rather than what BBC/Sky report him saying out of context) in any way implies the Lib Dems would support the leading party.
So then, Gordon had to have the final say. It's all over.
GB is no longer PM, and Cameron is off to have his confab with the Queen. You think he'll accept? :)
Looking likely to be a Con-Lib coalition with Nick Clegg as Deputy PM, but that's by no means a done deal.
So then, Gordon had to have the final say. It's all over.
GB is no longer PM, and Cameron is off to have his confab with the Queen. You think he'll accept? :)
Looking likely to be a Con-Lib coalition with Nick Clegg as Deputy PM, but that's by no means a done deal.
My 1st thoughts were he has negotiated well to get the deputy PM role but in reality it is a nothing position and as often been given to folks as an alternative to giving them a proper cabinet post
Matblack
11-05-2010, 20:25
We're screwed
MB
Knipples
11-05-2010, 21:06
For some reason the shots of Gordon, his missus and the boys walking out of Downing Street brought a lump to my throat.
For some reason the shots of Gordon, his missus and the boys walking out of Downing Street brought a lump to my throat.
I cheered. :o
Knipples
11-05-2010, 21:16
I cheered. :o
I didn't mean I wasn't happy to see him go, just we've hardly seen the kids, and thats the only home they've really known due to their age. :)
Yeah but you're a lovely girl, I'm mean cruel boy :p
Sad day, tories in lib dems sold out
Del Lardo
11-05-2010, 22:13
We're screwed
MB
OK, I'll bite ;) I understand that you don't like Cameron but why/what do you think the Conservatives will do that will be any worse than the other two?
On top of that did you really want labour to stay in and double our deficit. However hard the pill is to swallow. The debt is unsustainable as it is, without increasing it. It has to be paid off or at least reduced.
I have a feeling torys are going to be bad news for my lifestyle and more importantly, my job. I shall see what happens, but I think more cuts to education will come with a Tory government than what labour would have done.
OK, I'll bite ;) I understand that you don't like Cameron but why/what do you think the Conservatives will do that will be any worse than the other two?
They are going to cut hard. Infact one of the first quotes coming out this morning was "the cuts start today". However they all have to make cuts regardless. I can see the riots in Greece coming over here.
Personally I'm not looking forward to 10%+ interest rates if that starts looking likely in a few years.
Stan_Lite
12-05-2010, 12:27
Personally I'm not looking forward to 10%+ interest rates if that starts looking likely in a few years.
I remember only too well the last Tory government. Interest rates at 17%, the entire country asset stripped, 4 million on the dole, poll tax riots, traditional industries decimated e.g. coal, steel, shipbuilding etc.
I have seen nothing to make me believe the Tories have changed their spots. If you're not middle class or above, you may as well bend over now and prepare to be reamed.
Personally I'm not looking forward to 10%+ interest rates if that starts looking likely in a few years.
Maybe it will be done differently this time? Maybe there won't be 10%+ interest rates.
I think we'd be just as screwed with Labour and I don't think the LD's could have done anything miraculous unless they could pull cash out of their arses.
Matblack
12-05-2010, 13:08
I remember only too well the last Tory government. Interest rates at 17%, the entire country asset stripped, 4 million on the dole, poll tax riots, traditional industries decimated e.g. coal, steel, shipbuilding etc.
I have seen nothing to make me believe the Tories have changed their spots. If you're not middle class or above, you may as well bend over now and prepare to be reamed.
Are you me? :D
I think the difference is Stan that we remember what a Tory government actually means for people on low to middle incomes.
I agree with some of the sentiments here and I was probably being a bit ott saying we're screwed but, under a Tory government it will be us that are screwed not the upper earners, with some many members of the Tory party including Dave and George coming from families who are amongst the richest in the country, do we really think they have our best interests at heart. Conservatisim is about making the rich richer and the poor poorer, I really believe that.
MB
One of their first changes - increasing the limit needed for a vote of no confidence in the commons.
Conveniently, they've raised it to 55%, just above the 53% of opposition held seats, so now they can only come unstuck if they vote no confidence in themselves, even if every other MP in the commons votes no confidence.
:/
I think the difference is Stan that we remember what a Tory government actually means for people on low to middle incomes.
I can now say the same about Labour and none of us can say anything about the LD's as we don't know.
I don't really go down the line of their personal backgrounds or wealth. Are you telling me that all of the LD's come from backgrounds the same as you and I? Or are most of them multi-millionaires too?
Maybe it will be done differently this time? Maybe there won't be 10%+ interest rates.
I think we'd be just as screwed with Labour and I don't think the LD's could have done anything miraculous unless they could pull cash out of their arses.
Sorry if I wasn't clear but that wasn't directed at the Tories. I was worried in general how they are going to do cuts (& maybe) interest rate rises. Something that would have occur whoever was in power. We can but hope that the rates won't go through the roof.
Are you me? :D
I think the difference is Stan that we remember what a Tory government actually means for people on low to middle incomes.
I agree with some of the sentiments here and I was probably being a bit ott saying we're screwed but, under a Tory government it will be us that are screwed not the upper earners, with some many members of the Tory party including Dave and George coming from families who are amongst the richest in the country, do we really think they have our best interests at heart. Conservatisim is about making the rich richer and the poor poorer, I really believe that.
MB
I'm royaly screwed then as Scottish to boot and first in line for these efficiency ok lets be honest brutal cuts.
Maybe it will be done differently this time? Maybe there won't be 10%+ interest rates.
I think we'd be just as screwed with Labour and I don't think the LD's could have done anything miraculous unless they could pull cash out of their arses.
Agreed.
This is a new era, it might fail, but hang on a sec... it might work.
There is no "one shoe fits all" policy in politics, concessions will have to be made at all times - I genuinely feel that with the LDs involved to the extent they are they may dilute some of the extremes of the Tories. However, I've always been on the fence between Tory and LD, but the combination of both for me is an ideal solution. Give it a chance.
Are you me? :D
I think the difference is Stan that we remember what a Tory government actually means for people on low to middle incomes.
---snip--
Conservatisim is about making the rich richer and the poor poorer, I really believe that.
That makes three of us who are the same person. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that my family income is going to drop. I remember only too well what it was like when the last Tory government was in power and I've dreaded for years that it would happen again. It may sound dramatic but I hardly slept last night, that's how this has affected me.
One of their first changes - increasing the limit needed for a vote of no confidence in the commons.
Conveniently, they've raised it to 55%, just above the 53% of opposition held seats, so now they can only come unstuck if they vote no confidence in themselves, even if every other MP in the commons votes no confidence.
And so it starts. [insert vicious nasty insults here]
Give it a chance.
Sadly we don't have a choice now.
If there was any way I could leave this country, I would now be packing my bags and heading off. Unfortunately it's not an option so I'm stuck here. I love my country but I absolutely detest the Conservative party. I'm not normally a bitter person, I am today.
Del Lardo
12-05-2010, 18:59
That makes three of us who are the same person. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that my family income is going to drop. I remember only too well what it was like when the last Tory government was in power and I've dreaded for years that it would happen again. It may sound dramatic but I hardly slept last night, that's how this has affected me.
There are plenty of us who have been ****ed over by Labour as well. University tuition fees which meant that I left Uni with even more debt, a housing market left to spiral out of control so if you live round here you pay 40% tax yet cannot buy a house, a war that the population didn't want that was badly planned and even more badly implemented, the list goes on.
I pretty sure that my family income is going to drop as well but that's got to happen if we are going to dig ourselves out of the ****ing huge hole that we find ourselves in after 13 years of Labour government. Now I'm not going to say that some/most/all of that stuff wouldn't have happened under a Conservative government but the point is that Labour were in charge which ultimately means that they are responsible.
And so it starts. [insert vicious nasty insults here]
Because Labour didn't change constituency boundaries to help them win more seats did they? Oh wait they did ;)
If there was any way I could leave this country, I would now be packing my bags and heading off. Unfortunately it's not an option so I'm stuck here. I love my country but I absolutely detest the Conservative party. I'm not normally a bitter person, I am today.
Serious question, where would you go? Mainland Europe & America are as ****ed as we are with Australia and NZ not too far behind, Japan's economy is struggling (as it has been for years) and even China is showing worrying signs of overheating. The only place I can think of is Canada and they have a rather strict immigration policy.
Matblack
12-05-2010, 19:01
You know what? I don't mind being worse off to a certain extent, we haven't had too bad a time of it over the past few years really, not a when you compare it to the 70s and 80s, I understand that we've overspent and now the pain will come.
However what really really annoys me is that when the Tories are in then its the lower and middle earners that take the pain and the rich just get richer.
They wanted to raise inheritance tax for multi millionaires and they are talking about phasing in the raising of the tax limit to £10k rather than just doing it and paying for it with some money from the rich. Now the Lib Dems might moderate that but I don't think George Osbourne is going to be slicing up his fortune to benefit us. Tories widen the gap between rich and poor and whether they have the Lib Dems to moderate them, they will still try to do what they always do. It wasn't that long ago that they dropped their plans to dismantle the NHS and make everyone who couldn't pay for health insurance a second class citizen.
If you look at their justifications for not raising NI, who's advice were they bandying around? The CEOs of major retailers, i.e. people with a shed load of cash, do you think they might want to keep their overheads low? Maybe just maybe the Tories want to make the rich richer?
MB
Matblack
12-05-2010, 19:03
Serious question, where would you go? Mainland Europe & America are as ****ed as we are with Australia and NZ not too far behind, Japan's economy is struggling (as it has been for years) and even China is showing worrying signs of overheating. The only place I can think of is Canada and they have a rather strict immigration policy.
And with all that in mind, (global melt down) actually, and many people would probably want to burn me at the stake for this, Brown didn't do a bad job :shocked:
MB
Stan_Lite
12-05-2010, 19:14
You know what? I don't mind being worse off to a certain extent, we haven't had too bad a time of it over the past few years really, not a when you compare it to the 70s and 80s, I understand that we've overspent and now the pain will come.
However what really really annoys me is that when the Tories are in then its the lower and middle earners that take the pain and the rich just get richer.
MB
I'm of the same mind (not surprisingly). I'm one of those people who would be happy to pay an extra penny in income tax - if I thought it was likely to benefit the country and/or those who need it.
I begrudge every penny I hand over to the Tories. They'd take the extra penny and give it to some businessman to buy carbon fibre seats for his yacht.
Del Lardo
12-05-2010, 19:26
And with all that in mind, (global melt down) actually, and many people would probably want to burn me at the stake for this, Brown didn't do a bad job :shocked:
MB
I honestly don't know enough about economics to comment. It does amuse me when people say that the Tories will kill the economy as if they can predict what is going to happen with complicated market forces that lets face it are bloody difficult to predict. It may happen, it may not, but I doubt that very many of the people predicting either way are really qualified to comment.
Matblack
12-05-2010, 19:30
I expect the Tories to do a perfectly respectable job with the economy, as good as any other party, maybe even better.
MB
Del Lardo
12-05-2010, 19:31
I begrudge every penny I hand over to the Tories. They'd take the extra penny and give it to some businessman to buy carbon fibre seats for his yacht.
I'd rather buy a businessman a carbon fibre seat than a single mum a pack of fags to smoke in front of her children :poke: ;)
Del Lardo
12-05-2010, 19:39
I expect the Tories to do a perfectly respectable job with the economy, as good as any other party, maybe even better.
MB
I think I'm getting there now, so your concern is that in order to fix the economy they will screw low/middle earners rather than high earners?
I'd rather buy a businessman a carbon fibre seat than a single mum a pack of fags to smoke in front of her children :poke: ;)
Indeed.
I think I'm getting there now, so your concern is that in order to fix the economy they will screw low/middle earners rather than high earners?
Then again no different to what Labour would have done anyway!
And with all that in mind, (global melt down) actually, and many people would probably want to burn me at the stake for this, Brown didn't do a bad job :shocked:
MB
How?
you do not rise national debts at a time of boom.
Then I would disagree he did a good job with tackling it, but at least that part can be argued.
We should never been in this position in the first place.
I'd rather buy a businessman a carbon fibre seat than a single mum a pack of fags to smoke in front of her children :poke: ;)
I wouldn't lose sleep over that, duty on cigarettes represents one of the most regressive tax policies currently in existence. Albeit there are other arguments for taxing fags etc.
I'm with those concerned about the emphasis of Conservative cuts which I have no doubt will hit the less advantaged hardest. However, given that prior to the election campaign I had expected an outright win for 'call me Dave' I feel that a coalition with the LD, including key positions for Clegg & Cable, is the best outcome I could have hoped for. Now it's a case of seeing how it all plays put in practice :confused:
And with all that in mind, (global melt down) actually, and many people would probably want to burn me at the stake for this, Brown didn't do a bad job :shocked:
Brown certainly didn't do a bad job after the **** hit the fan. Before? He caused a good deal of the problems we've got now. UK economy was doing really well 2002-2006, yet he was still running a budget deficit. WTF? If you don't pay off debts when you're doing well, you're ****ed once the wheels come off - and that's exactly what's happened.
Indeed, GB said this himself in the early years, as well as the later classic 'end to boom and bust'. Then there's the housing bubble, the banking bubble, and so on. Of course, he did 'fix' the NHS, which was desperately needed, so it's far from all bad.
Apparently the gap between rich and poor has widened continuously since the 80s, probably even the 70s. That's both Tory and Labour covered then.
I'm prepared to give the Liberal Conservatives a chance. Indeed, it was the result I'd hoped for. Consensus politics FTW. Undoubtedly it'll hit me in the pocket, but that was to be expected.
I'd rather it hit my back pocket a little and they sort the problems out of the country, than they do sod all and let the country fall apart more.
Stan_Lite
13-05-2010, 04:43
I'd rather it hit my back pocket a little and they sort the problems out of the country, than they do sod all and let the country fall apart more.
On that, at least, we agree. My concern is how the Tories will use any extra they take from me. Hopefully, they'll take some advice from their LibDem buddies.
TinkerBell
13-05-2010, 06:54
I have to 100% agree with Will and Paul. You can't just the tory's yet,when you don't know how it will pan out. This country needs to be sorted out, if it isn't we are going to be in big trouble.
Del Lardo
13-05-2010, 09:26
On that, at least, we agree. My concern is how the Tories will use any extra they take from me. Hopefully, they'll take some advice from their LibDem buddies.
I was never a fan of George Osbourne so I was happy to hear that Vince Cable would be helping out. Funny given all the focus on Camerons education during the election that no-one mentioned that Vince Cable went to Cambridge ;)
volospian
19-05-2010, 13:50
Of course, he did 'fix' the NHS, which was desperately needed, so it's far from all bad.
I worked for the NHS for six years under Labour and I got to see what it was like on the inside...
In my 6 years my experience was this... The move to PCT's was a shambles, cost millions and then had to be restructured at another huge cost, the shared service model brought no tangible benefits and had to be restructured, again at huge cost, NPfIT cost millions, didn't work and had to be rebadged, millions was spent on "lesser" IT projects that nobody used (such as nhsmail) and when I went to see the cardiologist 2 months ago, she filled in a load of paper forms and asked me to hand them to the receptionist on the way out.
Labour wasted most of the money they spent on the NHS, imho
Indeed they did - no denying that - but at least they reversed the systematic under-investment, and that was sorely needed.
Going back the other way again now though. Last year I could get next day appointments at the docs. Last week I had to book a week in advance to see my GP (and actually didn't see my GP, though I don't mind that as I got some better answers).
volospian
20-05-2010, 08:58
My GP won't book you in advance for anything. Even when the GP requests that you return after tests, you have to ring in the morning and wait.
Also, I had some tests a couple of months ago and the GP said to return if the tests were clear, to explore other avenues. I rang up the surgery to ask about the results and was told "the tests are clear, you don't need to come back" by the receptionist. I said "I think I do" and she was like "No, your tests are clear, you don't need to see anybody..." WTF does she know? Some jumped up answerphone telling me that I don't need to see the doctor when the doc herself told me that I did. I had to argue with her, and even then she said "well, you'll have to ring back tomorrow morning at 7:30am....
They seem bloody desperate to stop you seeing a doctor nowadays:angry:
When we moved and I had to change doctors I got told you no longer register with a specific doctor, you register with the surgery and you no longer get an NHS/doctors card (which for many things use to be a valid form of ID :/ )
My surgery has started "promoting" the fact that you can now book appointments 3 weeks in advance, but that is a new thing.
When I moved (0.75 miles) I had to change doctor. I pointed out that I ask for an appointment on average once per 5 years or so, no dice.
New doctor was a complete waste of space. Almost impossible to get appointments, and when I did go in he seemed to be trying to get me in and out within a minute - after waiting over an hour past the appointment time.
So I registered with Em's doctor, who is 25 miles away. No problem getting an appointment, but what they do is book about 10 people in per hour and the first to arrive gets number 1, second 2 etc. and they get seen in that order. He gives as much time as needed, and still doesn't go into the next hour's time.
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