Using "home" branded microsoft products for business uses..

[SidewinderINC]

Hi All,

Got a few quick questions regarding (very) small business computers.

My girlfriends dad runs his own limited company as a surveyor and needs to upgrade his computer as his current one is pretty slow.
He's spoken to me about it but as I'm pretty out of the loop I said I'd have to look into it.

He has a colleague that has told him a few things that I think are BS (due to the fact his colleague said you NEED an HDMI monitor & cable to run high resolutions) but not 100% sure on which are;

1. MS office 2003 will NOT work with windows 7.

2. if you're using the computer for business purposes, even if it's only 2 people using it, you have to have professional/business software licences for MS stuff.

3. If you want to run a program in "XP mode" you have to have an i3 or i5 processor and >4GB ram.


He's looked on a few dodgy sites relating to building your own spec PC, which I've shooed him away from as he knows nothing about the hardware so was randomly clicking buttons that he thought were right.

ideally I want to get a complete unit from somewhere, with a good warranty and support if I can't get there (Read: get annoyed and refuse to help) to help him out .

Can anyone help me with the above, and possibly help me with getting him a new machine :)

Cheers

Sinc.

[divine]

you NEED an HDMI monitor & cable to run high resolutions

bull****, HDMI is virtually the same as DVI with regards video signal but in a different shaped connector

1. MS office 2003 will NOT work with windows 7.

bull****, i'm running it now

2. if you're using the computer for business purposes, even if it's only 2 people using it, you have to have professional/business software licences for MS stuff.

bull****, the professional versions just tend to come with more features to assist network deployment etc.

3. If you want to run a program in "XP mode" you have to have an i3 or i5 processor and >4GB ram.

sort of right but confused, windows 7 'xp mode' is a virtual machine setup and he'd never need use it, it's aimed at big business who need it for proper legacy stuff that can't run under compatibility mode. You do need a CPU with appropriate virtualization support to use it (Some Core2 usually named vPro, all Corei afaik, can't remember AMDs support). 4GB isn't required but probably sensible if you did need to use it regularly. I don't think he'd ever ever need to touch it.

Simplest solution - an appropriately priced Dell Vostro machine from the Dell Small Business store.

[SidewinderINC]

Well I knew the top one was BS dude :p

Regarding #3
How much software works in compatibility mode? I'll get the info about what he uses, but he does use some pretty old CAD software, and the licence for the newest version is something like £1,000

[divine]

It made the post flow better :D

I've not yet encountered any software at home that even needs compatibility mode, never mind needing to be run inside it's own personal VM. Do you know what CAD software he uses?

I can't imagine it'd be much older than AutoCAD 2004, which I would expect to work ok in 7.

[SidewinderINC]

well the vostro systems seem pretty good for the price - what's dell service like?

I like the fact that they're actually advertised as business machines, and have business service (if it's good)

The other machines I was looking at were MESH, only because I've used their pre-builds and they're solid.

[Burble]

I've had limited success with compatibility mode, it usually does a good job but it isn't perfect.

XP mode is a nice option especially as it's quite seamless - you aren't necessarily aware than you're booting up another OS with the exception of the initial startup time. The integration into 7 is very nice though as you get an icon for the app that'll start the VM and the app.

Building your own machine for business is something I'd never consider. There's a lot to be said for a warranty and tech support phone number. It'll most likely cost more to buy but it'll more than pay for itself with the amount of arsing about you most likely won't have to do.

[divine]

well the vostro systems seem pretty good for the price - what's dell service like?

I like the fact that they're actually advertised as business machines, and have business service (if it's good)

The other machines I was looking at were MESH, only because I've used their pre-builds and they're solid.

As far as I am aware, Dell business support is a totally separate entity to the consumer support, and is much better regarded. However (for obvious reasons) i've not dealt directly with them so that isn't first hand experience. I'm sure there are people here who will have done though.

[Burble]

Dell business support is pretty good. Even with the enterprise kit you'll get a 1st level support guy asking if you're rebooted but once you get past that they're usually quick at getting things sorted.

We've got around 600 Dell workstations and laptops in the company and they don't tend to go wrong very often. When they do go wrong they're nearly always fixed next business day. There have been a few occasions where they've turned up with a knackered spare part but it's far from common.

[SidewinderINC]

Thanks guys, all answers I was hoping for - will get a dell system priced up.

Can't seem to access the Vostro 430 systems though :(

[divine]

It might be worth looking at the workstation machines if he's a heavy CAD user but if it's nothing mad, then a Core i3/i5, 4GB RAM and a basic GeForce GT card should be fine.

My machine at work can happily have 20-25 drawings open before I start wanting more RAM or wishing the Core 2 Duo was a bit beefier.

[SidewinderINC]

the workstation machines start getting pricier!

I suppose I could get him to call up dell customer services and get them to talk through his needs, that sounds easiest :p

[divine]

They'll probably start trying to flog him a £500 nVidia Quadro card though, at the first mention of CAD :p

It's those cards that ramp the workstation price up, even the most basic workstation machine comes with a £125 worth of ATi FirePro.

It's probably overkill for him though really.

[SidewinderINC]

They'll probably start trying to flog him a £500 nVidia Quadro card though, at the first mention of CAD :p

It's those cards that ramp the workstation price up, even the most basic workstation machine comes with a £125 worth of ATi FirePro.

It's probably overkill for him though really.

good point.

[SidewinderINC]

https://idisk.mac.com/sidewinderinc//Public/Screen shot 2011-01-19 at 21.44.46.png

https://idisk.mac.com/sidewinderinc//Public/Screen shot 2011-01-19 at 22.02.01.png


These are two systems I've priced up.

The cheaper of the two doesn't have office (can't remove it from the first one, and it's not required) and doesn't have a few other things that aren't totally necesarry I think :p

[Mark]

The first one looks like better value - but only if you need the features. I don't think you do, which makes the cheaper one (plus monitor) a better option.

[Jingo]

I personally get by just fine on a 1GB Sapphire Radeon card that cost about £60 two years ago - no matter how much visualising or CAD work he will be doing, I'm willing to bet that he has no need for a specialist or 'heavy duty' gfx card.

I imagine the output of his work will be primarily 2D, and even heavy-duty 3D or Vis work would be easy work for most multi-core machines :)

I'm often running Autocad 2011 + PS CS5 + A render system (+ anciliaries i.e. Email / browser / music) at the same and my 2009 built quad-core, 6GB 1333 RAM system happily chomps through it very swiftly :)

Hopefully this might help with an aspect of 'what you might need', and in terms of service/warranty I'm uncertain of what to advise...

...until last week's failed psu, I've not had any problems with my self build, and although most parts have 3-5 year warranties on them, I'm not sure the faffing would suit your friend's situation (or your peace!). I've enjoyed great service from Dell when I dropped a huge book on my laptop my laptop broke - it was collected and returned with new bits within 4 days.

This was under the standard warranty which comes with 1 year but can be extended beyond with various packages at fairly reasonable prices. When you get to the 4+ years stage I'm not sure how much you want to warranty anyhow! :)

Not sure if this helps much but I hope so :)

[Mark]

For a business, I'd never recommend self-build - unless you're a PC hardware business. All due respect to those here who supplied self-build systems to companies (I know of at least two), but the reason is simple - what happens when the machine breaks? Who repairs it? How long does it take? What happens to the business while it's being repaired?

Even for home use I'd suggest Dell unless you know what you're doing and can take the downtime.

[Jingo]

Definately a big point to consider - good post Mark :)

I used my self build for my business with no problems, but as a point Mark mentioned, I was capable of patching up any problems within swift, non-damaging timescale (not that I actually had any issues) and had a sufficient temporary secondary system also.

So although it's definately possible, there's lots of other considerations and it probably wouldn't suit your friend; I think my post was mainly to help with the potential spec of what he might require in that field of work :)

[Toby]

I've had limited success with compatibility mode, it usually does a good job but it isn't perfect.

XP mode is a nice option especially as it's quite seamless - you aren't necessarily aware than you're booting up another OS with the exception of the initial startup time. The integration into 7 is very nice though as you get an icon for the app that'll start the VM and the app.

Whilst the integration is nice if you are indeed using it to support some legacy apps, I personally hated the way they removed half the options compared to Virtual PC.

I removed XP Mode and instead installed Virtual PC 2007 SP1 which works perfectly on Win7. You lose some of the integration but gain more control, including the ability to use it without hardware virtualization support, although performance will obviously be atrocious by comparison.