kit cars...

[volospian]

Right, I'll give the background to this before I start the topic. I was, as some of you know, working on a scimitar project. The idea was to have a classic tax free car to drive the 15 minutes or so to work each day, plus doing the general workhorse stuff like visiting the tip, picking up ebay bits and so on. I bought a scimitar as it was something I liked and I had a RV8 hanging around that I thought could go in for a bit of V8 soundtrack. I was intending to tidy it up, replace just about everything wearable, retrim, respary and have a nice two door shooting brake.

However, since then my job has changed. I now work from home, which is good, but need to travel to the main offices (Milton Keynes, Alderley Edge or Hemel) and various customer locations (I've recently been working in Bolton, fo example). Now work have furnished me with a nice diesel powered Jaguar XF for this travelling, so I'm happy there, but now the "projet car" becomes something fun for the weekends.

I could "track day" up the scimitar (as I only live afew miles from Donnington) but if I were starting a track day car, I probably wouldn't start with a scimitar... Anyay, as the wife and I are avid walkers and go up to the peaks or so most weekends, I can see myself making much more use of a soft top for those sunny trips to the countryside (all two days a year, it's such a lovely sunny country in which we live...).

I could go for another classic rag top, but I don't really want a rolling resto, or a total nut and bolt rebuild, as both end up with hours of stripping out the old electrics, carpets, seats, drilling out rivets, wrestling with countless rusty bolts, etc. and I'm not in the mood for such a big job. The scim has been a lot of work to get to where it is and I don't really want to start that all over again. However, I do want a project and not a concourse motor that needs nothing done...

So... I'm thinking of a soft top style kit car. That way there is minimal stripping of the donor, just the specific parts you need, the rest goes to the scrappy or on ebay. Then you refurb those parts and bolt them on, with nice shiny new bolts, to a shiny new chassis, etc. I can even get some parts already reconditioned an not need to strip and refurb them at all.

I'm thinking of either an Aristocat XK120 Replica (http://www.autotuneuk.com/aristocat.html). This is quite nice. We saw one at the kit car show this year and we were both (the wife and I) impressed with the company. Plus you can now build one using XJ40 running gear.

The alternative that we have decided upon is a cobra replica of some kind. Boring perhaps, but I already have a RV8 an gearbox in the garage which wouldn't be used in the Xk120 , the wife loves Cobras and I must say I like them myself. The issue here is that there seems to be about a hundred different Cobra makers out there. I have narrowed the options down to Dax, AK and Pilgrim. Anybody have an experience of any of these companies or their cars? any advice on kit car building? Sequences, resources, etc.

I'm intending to try and get to visit a few companies this week (off work all week) so that will help, but I thought I'd start a thread here and let your words of wisdom flood in! :D

[Matblack]

My father and I considered this a long time ago and went to see Pilgrim who are very nice and let us dive their Cobra and Austin Healy 3000 models.

We never went through with it though.

To me Pilgrim's car was a replica and designed to be driven on the road, my gut instinct would be Dax if you want a racer, they make some super 7 style cars including a 4x4 Cosworth and even if you don't want they they do seem more performance orientated.

MB

[FakeSnake]

I loved building my cobra, although I will be honest, an RV8, unless very well tuned is just not quite enough..
My Roadcraft was a very good car, and relatively easy to build. They are now manufactured my Madgwick cars (Pagham)

Personally, I would not have gone for the Pilgrm, its a bit "budget", at the very least AK, Madgwick, and higher up... Dax

The AK Guys (I guess they are still over peterborough way?) were very friendly and very enthusiastic about their car.

If you want something that you can track, nothing less than a Gardener Douglas GD427.. Race proven and blooming epic.

I will be brutally honest though.. dont use the RV8, its just not enough (std) power to make the car actually very quick.. and if its performance you want.. Ford 351 or a Chevy 350.. WAY more tuneable for WAY less money!

The rules have changed since I built my car, I didnt have to conform the the IVA OR the previous SVA. I have the SVA manual you are welcome to have, it will give you lots of guidelines.

[volospian]

I thought I may see you here :)

I went to AK on Monday afternoon. Very impressed with the car and the staff. As you say, very friendly and a good laugh. I ended up being there for a couple of hours, gassing about Le Mans and stuff. I got to go out in Jon's LS9 engined cobra. Jesus that thing is quick.

The only reason for the RV8 is that I already had it in the garage along with a suitable gearbox. I know the RV8 is expensive to tune, but I'm really not after massive power. I'm happy to cruise rather than aim for bragging rights in the HP stakes. Although... I don't know, I may see if I can source a cheap LS1 from somewhere.

[A Place of Light]

I thought I may see you here :)

I went to AK on Monday afternoon. Very impressed with the car and the staff. As you say, very friendly and a good laugh. I ended up being there for a couple of hours, gassing about Le Mans and stuff. I got to go out in Jon's LS9 engined cobra. Jesus that thing is quick.

The only reason for the RV8 is that I already had it in the garage along with a suitable gearbox. I know the RV8 is expensive to tune, but I'm really not after massive power. I'm happy to cruise rather than aim for bragging rights in the HP stakes. Although... I don't know, I may see if I can source a cheap LS1 from somewhere.
The only thing I'd add is that even though you're more than aware of the RV8's limitations, and that the whole project is going to be a toy for yourself, I'd advise you to bear in mind the eventual resale value. Yank powered cars will sell faster and for more money so just because you have the Rover sitting around doing nothing it may still be an overall better plan to pickup something like a cheap LS.
Just my 2c.

[FakeSnake]

I might know of a chevy 5.0 tpi with computer and 6spd box for sale in the near future!
really nice setup as well!
my friend has just bought an LS6 and box for his Dax!

[volospian]

I might know of a chevy 5.0 tpi with computer and 6spd box for sale in the near future!
really nice setup as well!
my friend has just bought an LS6 and box for his Dax!

Hmmm... keep me posted... It sort of depends upon budget at the moment. Can I justify spending more on a new engine/'box when I already have something that wouldprobably do what I need? I appreciate the wisdom of considering the resale value, etc. but I also have to consider my usage. I don't really want a beast of a car, I just want something that looks good and makes the right noises. If it's too powerful the wife won't even get into it, no matter how I drive it and then it will hardly ever get used and I'd end up having to flog it anyway.

She's not good with "fast cars". After a while she stopped going in the Cerbera altogether because the "theatre" scared her too much. It was too easy to hit a damp spot pulling out at a junction and stick the back end out, or spin the wheels, or change down too quickly and get the snap, crackle and pop on the overrun. It made me grin like a fool, but it made the wife hate the car and end up refusing to get into it.

So, my current plan is to use the existing 3.5 V8, tuned to get around 200hp out of it. Then, once she gets used to the whole thing I may swap it out for a 5.0 version from a chimp or griff... There's plenty of those available. That should give me around the 300+ mark in a couple of years.

Mind you, if I found a cheap LS1 and 'box, I could perhaps be persueded as I do agree with the arguments. I know full well that I'll always wish I had 400+ when I'm out in it alone, and it will impact upon the resale value... we'll see. Ak have a 8 to 12 week lead time atm, and as I won't be ordering until after Christmas I have until around my birthday to think about what configuration I actually need the chassis in...:D

[Grandad]

there's no way would I drive anything I had built :p

[volospian]

Well... I have chosen to take the more prudent option and bought myself some american all-alloy 8 cylinder goodness. Not an LS1, but an L33 instead. It's the "truck" engine that goes in the 05-07 Silverado pickups. It's basically an LS1 with a slightly smaller bore but the same stroke to produce a 5.3 litre engine that pushes out around 310hp and 325lb/ft or so as standard.

Parts are pretty much interchangable with the LSx range (apart from intakes as they changed the head design for the LS3 and similar, so I can only use LS1 or LS6 intakes) so I can play with performance parts or forced induction later to leave me plenty of scope for power upgrades.

[FakeSnake]

an excellent choice!

I presume you got the ECU as well? or are you going down the "custom" route?

[volospian]

No, I'll use megasquirt or emerald or something...

[A Place of Light]

Good choice, going down the LS route.

[volospian]

The stock truck inlet manifold won't fit under the bonnet of a Cobra, so I can either fit a silly big scoop, or I can change the inlet manifold to a car version. After a bit of investigation I found someone on the Pistonheads Monaro site that was willing to flog me an LS6 setup (inlet manifold, throttle body, injectors and fuel rails) for £150. As the engine seller wanted extra for the truck inlet I declined his offer and am taking said contact up on his LS6 setup.

The LS6 intake adds around 15hp to a stock LS1, but the truck intake already flows better than a stock LS1 anyway, so I doubt it'll make much real world difference. The general concensus seems to be that I'll sacrifice a little low end torque for a bit more high end HP. Having said that, I've seen dyno runs on an L33 with the LS6 intake and a cam swap (but otherwise stock) putting out over 410hp and over 370lb/ft of torque. I'm only aiming for figures similar to my old Cerbera, so mid 300's hp and early 300's torque, so I should be happy enough.

[volospian]

Well, the Kit was ordered a couple of weeks ago, and the deposit has been paid. Ready date is 26th April.

I've sourced most of the parts I need from donors, including the engine, gearbox, brake servo and master cylinder, handbrake assembly, heater and I'm heading off in a hired van to pick up the front and rear axles/suspension on Friday.

I've gone for the "Gen II" kit which enables me to use any suspension from the Gen 2 IRS XJ series, which includes the XJ40, X300 an X308 cars. I've found a breakers who'll sell me the complete subframes from a 3.2 X308. This gives me a diff with a ratio of 3.27:1. Coupled with the gearbox I'm using this will give a theoretical top speed of around 180mph... and the engine should put out enough power to reach that theoretical limit.... theoretically :)

So, next job is to collect the suspension parts, strip them down, clean them up, rebush, replace anything worn and paint them, ready to attach to the chassis when it turns up...

Well, actually the next job is to sort the garage out so I have room to do all this... :D

[Zirax]

Nice :cool:

I would love to do something like this but I would never get the time.

[volospian]

I did a quick spot of research and double checking yesterday, mainly getting prices for replacement bearings and ball joints, and it's a good job I did. While Jaguar left the rear end of the X308 alone (well, pretty much, at least they didn't change any of the bits I need) they totally redesigned the front end.

The guys at AK just assumed things were the same, or near enough, across the range, which is fair enough assumption as they have probably not had anybody bother using X308 parts yet as they're rarer than XJ40/X300 parts... but they most certainly are not the same. Different wishbones, uprights, bearings.. it's pretty much all changed.

Anyway, I spoke to the scrappy who said it was no bother to swap the front suspension I was intending to buy with a set off an X300, while still buying the X308 rear end for that nice 3.27:1 diff. No difference in price so I'm a happy bunny.

Still, it's a good job I get excited about these things and started sourcing parts before I bought the goods or I'd never have discovered the difference until I had the parts back in my garage!

[Zirax]

Very close call on an expensive mistake there

[volospian]

Yeah. I'm a little annoyed at some of the info available for this build. I don't mean the parts list from AK. They state that you need the parts from a certain set of cars. XJ40 suspension, E34 Steering column, Polo MkII heater, Jag XJS handbrake, Rover 25 brake servo/cylinder and so on. The list is not the issue, the issue is "what if I can't find one?" Some of those parts are now passing into either extinction, or classic vehicles in their own right. People don't scrap XJ40's now, they restore them instead... Same with the "classic" 5 series, XJS and even Polo MkII, to some degree. And because of that, parts are silly expensive (well, the heater and servo wasn't too bad, but...). Nobody wants X300 suspension, but XJ40 parts are twice the price.

From doing this work I've discovered that the X300 front end can be used, the back end of anything up to X308 can be used. The polo MkIII looks to have the same heater unit as the MkII, a whole host of rovers use the same servo and so on...

I'm now trying to source an alternative doner for the steering column. The suggested one comes off the E28, E32 or E34 series Beemers (early 5 and 7 series). These are getting pretty rare and I'm struggling to find one at a sensible price. Surely they have been used on later cars, or there is something similar in length, diameter, fittings and splines from someone else that could be used...

I'm thinking of putting together a compatability list that may help other builders source parts cheaper. I've also discovered that the PAS pump from a Rover 25 has been used and gives a good "weight" to the steering (considering the PAS pump that would have come with my engine would have been designed for a truck) also the alternator from a whole range of Rovers is a nice lightweight, compact 85Amp Bosch unit that will be ample for the Cobra and save some space/weight.

[Zirax]

Its actually pointing that AK need to do a more modern redesign, especially with that part list. In the 90s yeah you could get parts cheaply! I mean early 5 series with the scene tax?? Come on

[volospian]

Yeah, to be fair it's only the steering column that's really hard to get. They do need to consider an alternative though. I have just picked one up for £127 so it's a little more than I wanted to pay, but it's not a bad price.

I now have my axles at home and I'v started stripping them down. As usual I forgot to take pictures of the "before" but I'll take some on the weekend before I do any more. The rear set is stripped down to the component parts, more or less.

The drive shafts are still connected to the hubs at the moment. I'll try and seperate them on the weekend. It may have been slightly easier to try this while it was all still together, but locking the other shaft and the diff nose while trying a hub puller would have been more difficult than holding the shaft in a vice, I think. At least now I can always put the carrier in the vice and whack the end of the shaft with a hammer (or rather a nut on the end of the shaft... I don't want to b0rk the shaft...)

The lower wishbones are siezed into the long support bolts on both sides, so they are soaking in release agent. If that doesn't work I have some de-rust gel to apply and re-soak it all again. They'll come out in the end.

I need some spring compressors to work on the front, but I have removed the calipers and disks. My next big task is to deox the calipers and see what they look like once cleaned up. Oh, and change the diff seals and clean and paint it...

[volospian]

Well, the suspension strip down is proceding slowly. I have dismantled most of the rear sections. I need to remove the hubs from the hub carriers and remove all the bearings, bushes, etc.

The half shafts are removed and need dismantling and cleaning (if required, not sure how far I need to go with these as they are swapped for modified parts from AK).

The diff is removed from its frame and sitting under a table awaiting cleaning and inspection.

One side of the front suspension is partially strippd and the other is still attached to the subframe.

The main piece I am owrking on at the moment are the brake calipers. I have taken one of the front and one of the rear calipers to see how bad they are. Some pics...

Rear caliper, as it was (actually the other caliper as I forgot to take pics of these befoe I chucked them in the Deox-C solution)
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2706.JPG
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2707.JPG

As they are now, awaiting a quick zip over with some solvent before painting...
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2708.JPG
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2709.JPG


Front caliper, as it was (actually the other caliper ... blah, blah)
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2711.JPG
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2713.JPG

As they are now, awaiting a quick zip over with some solvent before painting...
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2712.JPG
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/IMG_2714.JPG

That Deox-C is pretty good stuff. I've had them soaking for a week or so, but it's freezing in the garage and the solution works much better when it's hot. I have occasionally heated it up in an old kettle to give it a boost:D.

I'll give them a few coats of VHT caliper paint (I decided upon standard "aluminium" grey as the suspension parts will all be black, so they will then stand out a bit. I couldn't go with red or whatever... not on a cobra...:p) over the next few days, before baking them off in the oven (while the wife is out, of course:D)

I then need to order a set of seals, bushes, bleed nipples and, if required, pistons (although the two existing ones look OK to me, I'm not sure whether it's worth buying nice shiny new ones anyway, although I think, for the £100 plus that this would cost for a set of 4, that I'll use the existing ones wherever possible) before rebulding them ready to go on the car.

I'll post some more pics once I've painted and re-assembled them. :)

[volospian]

I have some engine pics as well...
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/Eng1.jpg
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/Eng2.jpg
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/Eng3.jpg

Sporting a second hand LS6 intake manifold. Not fitted, just dropped in place to see how it looks (taken at night, so pic is poor...)
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/Eng4.jpg

[volospian]

Kit arrives this Saturday. I must get a blog up and running to start recording the build properly....

[Zirax]

Just caught up with the thread. Crikey that caliper was stuffed. How much time are you giving yourself for the build?

[volospian]

I am aiming to get the car ready for Classic Le Mans in June next year. I have a pot of cash in the bank to throw at this, so the majority of cost is already covered. It's mainly my time and effort that is going to be the issue. The wife has just got a new job and we had already agreed that we would move house once she has sorted her job, so I expect that sometime this autumn/winter we will be moving.

This may impact OTR dates as we may end up selling and renting before we find what we want to buy, so the build may have to go into storage for a while, etc. and then once we have a house there will be things to do that will eat my time.

On the plus side, hopefully we'll end up with a larger garage and the extra space may make some build issues easier to deal with and that may make up for some lost time...

I'll try and post a pic of the finished calipers in a bit. I'm just about to nip out and see if I can fit the last piston. The whole caliper thing was on hold for a while as other bits took priority (such as getting hubs, wishbones, etc. sorted and preparing the garage for delivery).

[volospian]

Calipers as they are now, all shiny and ready to fit.

http://www.volospian.net/cobra/calipers-back.jpg
http://www.volospian.net/cobra/calipers-top.jpg

[Zirax]

Looking good there! I discovered to my cost that time is my main enemy. Loads of projects but just not enough time to get them done :(

[volospian]

I know. I've already had to outsource some of my refurb to the local Jag specialist. I had the rear hubs/carriers stripped, cleaned, painted and rebuilt using all new bearings. They now have a rear crossmember and the drive shaft ends to sort for me. Some of this is due to time, some is because I don't have a press to remove bushes/UJ's cleanly without the use of a large hammer that may damage the parts.

Whatever, they come back clean and ready to fit, so throwing cash at a problem is sometimes an option.

[volospian]

Well, it's here....

http://www.volospian.net/cobra/trailer.jpg

Comes on castors, so it's easy to shift...

http://www.volospian.net/cobra/arrives.jpg

Simon having a close look at the rear of the chassis

http://www.volospian.net/cobra/chassis.jpg