View Full Version : Theres liberal and theres taking the piss
Matblack
05-12-2006, 15:35
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6209626.stm
Two and a half years for manslaughter? Sounded more like murder to me but even so two and a half years is a piss take
MB
*shakes head in disbelief*
:(
I read that earlier. It is disgusting :/
The other day I was reading about a school a few miles from where I grew up (Piggy's school in fact :D) that got burned down by some kids, the kids got 6 years for it which I thought was a bit harsh considering no one got hurt as the buildings were empty, and the area got a nice, brand new school out of it. I said to my Mum on the phone how you get less than that for rape. Seems you get less than that for killing someone too :(
Man-slaughter?! What? That's such a sad and anger filling report. I'm disgusted. :angry:
leowyatt
05-12-2006, 15:43
I'm just lost for words :(
Does that mean he'd be eligible for parole after 15 months? Sickening.
Admiral Huddy
05-12-2006, 15:53
it's more sickening to think there are people defending them :(
it's more sickening to think there are people defending them :(
although in this case, i agree with you - everyone's entitled to defence. no-one says that these lawyers want to do it when the person they're defending is so obviously guilty, but if you were falsely accused of something equal to this, wouldn't you want defence?
having said that, this kid should've got a life sentence. clearly not manslaughter, and it's just an indication that there's something very very wrong going on in this trial. i wouldn't want to be the person who has to tell that guys kids' that he's dead, and the guy who did it practically got away with it.
I read that earlier. It is disgusting :/
The other day I was reading about a school a few miles from where I grew up (Piggy's school in fact :D) that got burned down by some kids, the kids got 6 years for it which I thought was a bit harsh considering no one got hurt as the buildings were empty, and the area got a nice, brand new school out of it. I said to my Mum on the phone how you get less than that for rape. Seems you get less than that for killing someone too :(
That'd be Kai's school.
Harsh sentence but it was a bit more troublesome than just burning down a random building. Kai was off for 4 months because of it and luckily is only 14 so none of his exam work was destroyed like some of the older kids' was. Plus of course the kids weren't given anywhere else for schooling for several months which meant with both parents working as in my case Kai was left unattended during the hours I was in work. No problem for me as he's a good lad but some other kids got up to right mischief.
That'd be Kai's school.
Harsh sentence but it was a bit more troublesome than just burning down a random building. Kai was off for 4 months because of it and luckily is only 14 so none of his exam work was destroyed like some of the older kids' was. Plus of course the kids weren't given anywhere else for schooling for several months which meant with both parents working as in my case Kai was left unattended during the hours I was in work. No problem for me as he's a good lad but some other kids got up to right mischief.
Fair enough, I thought they'd provided other work elsewhere, only going from what the local paper was saying back then. 6 years still seems excessive imo though in comparison to other sentences.
Fair enough, I thought they'd provided other work elsewhere, only going from what the local paper was saying back then. 6 years still seems excessive imo though in comparison to other sentences.
Oh the sentence is bloody ridiculous alright!
No, the school still hasn't been built and the kids are still being taught in mobile buildings. School won't be finished for a year. Kai was left 4 months without placement.
Oh the sentence is bloody ridiculous alright!
No, the school still hasn't been built and the kids are still being taught in mobile buildings. School won't be finished for a year. Kai was left 4 months without placement.
Erk I thought it had been :( Then I apologise. Not been round that area in a while so didn't realise.
Mobile buildings suck, especially in Winter. Had most of my college lessons in them and they get bloody cold.
I am seriously e-mailing my MP if that will do any good, I suggest you guys do the same.
It is totally shocking. They killer could well be free depending on how much time he has spent on remand. This to me is a clear case of manslaughter though, it wasn't premeditated that the boy was going to kill the guy.
Having said that, manslaughter carries 2 - 10 years, so the judge has given the lightest and most insulting sentence possible. The killer should at least have been given 10 years as that means if he plead guilty, he would be eligable for parole in 5 years.
Erk I thought it had been :( Then I apologise. Not been round that area in a while so didn't realise.
Mobile buildings suck, especially in Winter. Had most of my college lessons in them and they get bloody cold.
Don't be silly apologising! :D
I'm wondering with such a steep sentence if those kids had been up for similar offences before. Can't imagine that that sentence would have been passed on a one off.
Matblack
05-12-2006, 16:42
I am seriously e-mailing my MP if that will do any good, I suggest you guys do the same.
It is totally shocking. They killer could well be free depending on how much time he has spent on remand. This to me is a clear case of manslaughter though, it wasn't premeditated that the boy was going to kill the guy.
Having said that, manslaughter carries 2 - 10 years, so the judge has given the lightest and most insulting sentence possible. The killer should at least have been given 10 years as that means if he plead guilty, he would be eligable for parole in 5 years.
Good idea
FOR THE ATTENTION OF:
Ann Widdecombe MP
Maidstone and the Weald
Tuesday 5 December 2006
Matt Bannister
1 Scott St
Maidstone
Kent
ME14 2TA
matblack@blueyonder.co.uk
01622 750431 http://www.writetothem.com/images/tiny.gif Dear Ms Widdecombe,
I am writing to you to express my absolute disgust at a sentence recently handed down by Cardiff Crown Court. Although I understand this is not you constituency I am sure you will be as disturbed as I am that a sentence as low as two and a half years can be awarded by a UK court for a clear case of man slaughter, with evidence backed up by CCTV footage.
A full account of the article can be found on the BBC website here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6209626.stm, the victim being one Paul Barnes, 30, from Tremorfa who at the time of being attacked was defending his own property from a gang of vandals.
I would appreciate it if you would consider raising this in parliament as a matter of urgency, I feel strongly that unless street gangs are shown that there are consequences to their actions that they will run roughshod over anyone brave enough to ask them to desist in acts of vandalism.
I appreciate your time is precious and I thank you in advance for any action you can take to raise this issue.
Yours sincerely,
Matt Bannister
Very unusual for something to make me do that, in fact its the first time. If anyone else wants to do it then its easy using http://www.writetothem.com/ :)
MB
Paul Flynn duely mailed.
Matt, you may want to re-read that statement. There is an error in there. You have you instead of your.
Tony Baldry (Cons. Banbury) mailed too.
Lol, Disgusted of BD writes......
Good on you guys. Im all up for trying to see what makes street gangs do what they do without prejudice, but by saying to them "carry on, we don't know what to do with you" is wrong.
Wow, talk about prompt:
The sentence does seem to be a light one. The matter
is one for the family own MP who I believe is Alun
Michael. I will have a word with him. It might be
better if you dropped a line to him.
Best wishes,
Paul Flynn
Paul Flynn MP House of Commons London SW1A OAA
NEWPORT NEWS: Constituents, please contact me to receive my regular
e-newsletter of news you cannot read anywhere else.
Wow - nice one Mark. So you going to write to the other MP?
Man-slaughter?! What? That's such a sad and anger filling report. I'm disgusted. :angry:
By strict legal definitions it is Manslaughter.
Murder is pre-meditated, i.e. they had deliberately set out to kill him.
In this case he was, for want of a much more appropriate phrase, collateral damage, and that makes it Manslaughter.
edit: Slightly altered variant of Matt's message sent to my own MP.
I knew / know what manslaughter is, but this borders on it IMO. He actively went to hit him, and then proceeded to taunt him once he was down. It's not the sort of person I want to come out of prison in 2 years time tbh.
Von Smallhausen
06-12-2006, 00:44
By strict legal definitions it is Manslaughter.
Murder is pre-meditated, i.e. they had deliberately set out to kill him.
In this case he was, for want of a much more appropriate phrase, collateral damage, and that makes it Manslaughter.
Murder by law does not have to be pre-meditated in terms of killing but any prosecutor must be satisfied of an intent to kill or cause GBH. The intent to kill is not an absolute must for a Murder conviction as an intent to cause GBH is sufficient.
Reading the link ......
Witnesses described how 6ft tall Chambers then punched 5ft 1ins tall Mr Barnes. He fell to the pavement, his head hitting with "a hollow noise"
There is the assault, he has hit his head as a result and that could be argued as GBH.
The court heard Chambers shouted: "Get up and have some more. Get up you pussy. I knocked him clean out."
Not only has he assaulted him, caused him to hit his head and spark him and his life, out, he wants him to have some more.
I think the intent is there .......
Murder .. Manslaughter ... I would say that, legally, the definition of Murder has been satisfied, but wheeling and dealing, my client is sorry and a guilty plea for a reduction seems to be the case.
While I could be argued to be slightly biased, I have to ask is the life of a good man worth 2 and a half years ? Is that what is meant by justice ?
I don't give a **** what bullsh*t the brief spun in the court, but that sentence is an absolute affrontery to justice and no deterrent in the slightest to try to curtail such thuggery which is rife amongst young wannabes'.
What should have happened is slamming the bastard with a minimum 10 year sentence to give him plenty of time to think and give the public a break from him as he is clearly a danger to them.
Only one person has benefitted from this and that is the lad convicted because sure as **** the justice system and more importantly the victim and his family have not.
It must be tough in your job Von to see this sort of thing happen (i.e. convictions being toned down) - especially with effort you put into it.
Von Smallhausen
06-12-2006, 10:40
It is one of the things that drags you down sometimes Will I must say.
I have seen legal briefs' spin a load of bull in court about how much their client is remorseful and is off the drugs and engaging in community activities ....... while I am thinking if I said that in the box I would be committing perjury. Often, that load is swallowed by the bench or the judge and a crap sentence is given out and the accused walks out of court with two fingers up, literally.
It's a game though .... you win some and you lose some.
Don't get me wrong, people who turn away from the crime and drugs I will support and help, and have done before.
Don't get me wrong, people who turn away from the crime and drugs I will support and help, and have done before.
As we all should. If they are making an active effort to improve themselves and give back the community you can't really hold that against them if they are genuinely trying to reform themselves.
Don't get me wrong, people who turn away from the crime and drugs I will support and help, and have done before.
Trying to balance the needs of justice with this are always challenging. You get the hardliners who always see the crime in black and white, who claim that any crime should result in permanent lockup without ever stopping to ask why the crime was commited in the first place. The newspapers do nothing to help on this front; and yet you can't just be liberal wishy-washy and allow people to get away with crimes because they came from a bad background or what have you. If they commit a crime, they should be punished but alongside that they need helped too; otherwise they end up in the same old spiral.
When leaving prison after however long, they're out of touch with the world. They've got no job, few firms are interested in taking on ex-cons, more often than not the only ones to accept them as a human being are the bad crowd. Any wonder re-offending rates are so high?
Von Smallhausen
06-12-2006, 11:58
A fair comment Garp, re-offending rates are high and there are underlying reasons for that.
It isn't impossible to get off that road though. You need not look any further than our malc for that. Not only has he changed the way he was and the life he led, he is giving that experience back to people to try to stop them re-offending. I said before, what that man has to offer cannot be bought.
I am no goody two shoes though. I have said before I could easily hae turned to crime when I left school as there were few jobs and one lad I kicked around with went on to serve about 7 years for conspiracy to supply class A drugs and other offences. I often think could that have been me ?
Von Smallhausen
06-12-2006, 16:23
Unfortunately, I can't contact my MP about it as I cannot get involved in politics officially. I can sound off here but I can't write a letter to my MP.
It may sound daft but it's in the print when you join. :(
It's the same for soldiers and the like if I'm not mistaken?
It's understandable - but boy must that suck.
Are you allowed to vote?
Reasonably quick response (2 days)
Dear Mr Graydon,
Thank you very much for your email of the 5th December.
I share your concern over this case and I am today writing to the Secretary of State and I will of course come back to you as soon as I have received his response.
Yours sincerely,
Nicholas Soames
Matblack
07-12-2006, 17:05
Nothing from Widders but shes probably on some reality TV program somewhere, unless old harridan
MB
Mine's not replied.
He's usually not bad at replying so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sod all from Baldry too. :(
I think my MP's replied by post as my Mum said I've got a letter from the House of Commons waiting for me back home.
Haven't heard back from Tessa Jowel yet...
Von Smallhausen
18-12-2006, 14:02
It's understandable - but boy must that suck.
Are you allowed to vote?
Late reply.
Yes, I am allowed to vote but can't display vote posters or anything.
We can't be seen to be affiliated to a particular government as we are servants of the Crown.
The fact this government has politicised the police and the Civil Service is another matter.:D
Forgot to say, my MP replied via letter to say he was disgusted by it and would be contacting people higher up regarding the matter.
I had a letter off Baldry saying he may or may not agree and he'd leave it up to the local MP to do something.
Useless ****.
Matblack
20-12-2006, 13:56
Still nothing of Widders, ****ing old troll
MB
I received a standard reply saying that 'your letter has been received and will be replied to shortly', just like the one I got when I wrote to him about firearm legislations a couple of years ago. I got no real reply to that either :(
Good job I didn't vote for the arsehole.
Tessa Jowell has passed on my concerns to the Home Secretary. In the mean time should I have any other questions or issues she would be happy to hear from me.
We shall have to wait and see what happens! Maybe we'll make the internet! :D
My MP's written back to me with a response from Lord Goldsmith.
Lord Goldsmith decided that 2 and a half years was fine and he's not referring it to the court of Appeal :undecided:
I'm pleased by my MP's attitude though, that he didn't like it and he actually listened to a constitutent :D
I now get Spam from Baldry.
Well, one email. But I didn't ask for it.
I got a letter from John Reid! He told me all about the plan of clamping down on petty crimes etc... How this is a petty crime I don't know. I'll see if I can scan the letter in later.
Von Smallhausen
21-02-2007, 21:32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6383199.stm
I have locked this man up before and I was also involved in this job, which was appalling. The bastard smirked when being led away to start a life term that will be a minimum of 19 years. I hope he does not get released ever.
Matblack
22-02-2007, 10:01
Amazing, what do you have to do to earn life imprisionment in this country? Second case of attempted murder, two cracks at killing her and then acting like a ****er in court and 19 years, to me thats a LIFE sentance no doubt at about it lock the guy up for life, if he gets out I have little doubt he would use violence again to possibly kill or main someone else. What is this countries legal system coming to?
MB
Von Smallhausen
22-02-2007, 19:47
^^
Sickening isn't it.
I will be very suprised if the Crown do not appeal against that minimum tariff. Although it is unlikely he will be released at 19 years I find his past violence, flagrant disregard for the law and the danger he presents to society 3 very good reasons for a 30 year to life tariff.
There are other things I know that he has done but cannot say, despite the trustworthiness of people here. Life him off ... simple as. Any chances he has had are simply gone and the snuffing out of an innocent girl's life is surely the final nail ?
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