View Full Version : LAN help
killerkebab
05-12-2006, 22:35
With a few friends of mine we occasionally get together at one of our houses and set up a LAN. The problem is there are always four or less of us because a standard router usually only has a four-port switch to connect us all with wires.
Now we want to set up another LAN with a couple more friends (anywhere between four and eight). This would sound great, only last time we tried with eight of us we had bought a cheap-o 16 port switch and we were lucky to have any more than three of us successfully connected. The rest of us had IP setup problems which a whole night of attemps didn't fix :(
Now I am about to purchase a Netgear FS608 switch. I want to know if our problems were more to do with the crappy switch, rather than a real configuration issue. All configuration I did was the windows network wizard, told it how the computers were connected (the questionnaire that pops up) and let it go. The first three computers connect and setup fine, but any after that report IP problems, no matter which ports I plug them in or what order or anything, and that was without trying to plug a router in to use the internet.
So to end the thread before I babble... what I mean to ask is how you would go about setting this up. If I tell you I have:
Anywhere between one to seven PCs.
One FS608 Switch.
One router (not sure on make, its one of those modem/switch/modem jobs a friend has).
Is it as simple as plug everything in, start all the computers up, start the network config wizard and let it do its thing, or was there something blindingly obvious I missed?
A switch plugged into the LAN port of a router should be all you need. certainly if DHCP is enabled on the router and you've got DHCP enabled on your network cards. Bob should be your uncle...
Tu es dans Kent non? Je peux venir t'aider si tu veux :)
Dymetrie
05-12-2006, 23:12
I've come across this before on a (can't remember the name of it but it was a bloody good/expensive managed switch) we realised that the problem was that NAT wasn't turned on on the switch and the modem/router would only allow 4 active internet connections (which impacted on the network as well).
Was fixed by turning on NAT on the switch so the router only recognised it as a single device despite the fact that there were eight machines connected to it.
This could just have been due to the fact that my ex-flatmate was a nob and may have nothing to do with your predicament :p
Check the size of your DHCP scope.
I've come across this before on a (can't remember the name of it but it was a bloody good/expensive managed switch) we realised that the problem was that NAT wasn't turned on on the switch and the modem/router would only allow 4 active internet connections (which impacted on the network as well).
Was fixed by turning on NAT on the switch so the router only recognised it as a single device despite the fact that there were eight machines connected to it.
This could just have been due to the fact that my ex-flatmate was a nob and may have nothing to do with your predicament :p
Thats some switch if it can cope with NAT. Of the top of my head I can't think of a single switch that would do NATting at all!
Switches operate at layer 2 in network terms, i.e. MAC addresses only, they care not about IP addresses. NAT occurs at layer 3, which is what a router is designed to handle.
Some of the more expensive switches combine some layer 3 functionality in them, mainly for the purposes of better handling VLANs, but I wouldn't expect it from the kinds of switch your average home-joe would buy.
I would be more inclined to believe the hassles came as much down to DHCP as NATing.
Under those circumstances I would suggest assigning addresses manually to each box. Check the normal IP of your router (usually tend to be 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1, using a /24 subnet: 255.255.255.0)
Use the same address range as your router, just changing the last digit on each machine, and keeping the subnet the same. Point the gateway setting on the workstation to the same address as the router.
Eg, assuming router is 192.168.1.1:
192.168.1.2, subnet mask 255.255.255.0, gateway 192.168.1.1
192.168.1.3, subnet mask 255.255.255.0, gateway 192.168.1.1
etc. etc.
Jobs a good'un hopefully.
DHCP scope be my guess too. Cheapo switch shouldn't make a difference like that.
DHCP scope be my guess too. Cheapo switch shouldn't make a difference like that.
Thirded. Possibly some artificial limitation on Windows if it was one of those boxes doing the DHCP.
Get a decent DHCP server with an adequate scope, or static IP everything (ball ache).
killerkebab
06-12-2006, 00:13
DHCP server? DHCP scope? NAT? I'm lost...
Setting up a LAN at home is easy enough with the router and its four ports, just we need something for more than four PCs :(
Is there no way to have all this done for us automatically on the day we decide to go to the guy's house and LAN up? As in plug PCs into switch, plug router into switch, and it to all work from there?
DHCP server? DHCP scope? NAT? I'm lost...
Setting up a LAN at home is easy enough with the router and its four ports, just we need something for more than four PCs :(
Is there no way to have all this done for us automatically on the day we decide to go to the guy's house and LAN up? As in plug PCs into switch, plug router into switch, and it to all work from there?
DHCP automatically assigns IP addresses to the computers.
I'd personally suggest just allocating and putting in a number yourself, if you can. It'll save a lot of hassles.
I'd personally suggest just allocating and putting in a number yourself, if you can. It'll save a lot of hassles.
That's what we do at small LANs.
*doesn't actually understand half the previous terminology* I just get it working by accident half the time :embarassed:
DHCP = Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol. It's the thing that dishes out IP addresses to devices that are set to get their IP automatically.
My thinking is that the DHCP scope (range) you have is small enough that when you connected the additional machines the DHCP server didn't have any IP addresses left to dish out.
Ignore the stuff about NAT, that's not relevant to this problem.
Assuming that your router is acting as your DHCP server, log into the web management of it and look for DHCP settings (possibly under LAN settings or similar) and look to see what range it is going to dish out.
DHCP scope.
Your router hands out IP addresses to any PC that wants one. But the sound of things, the router has been configured to give out a very small number of those addresses. You need to find where the DHCP settings are in your router and change them. Post the current ones here if you're not sure what to change them to.
DHCP automatically assigns IP addresses to the computers.
I'd personally suggest just allocating and putting in a number yourself, if you can. It'll save a lot of hassles.
Static's are less hassle than DHCP? Get outta town.
Static's are less hassle than DHCP? Get outta town.
In an environment where people dont really know wtf they are doing, manually assigning each IP address is the way to go.
Of course, if you are a techie/want to learn then setting up your own DHCP/DNS/etc server is the way to go :p
Nope, I disagree. If people don't know wtf they're doing, what could be easier than leaving the TCP/IP properties of their network card as default (ie, use DHCP)? The vast majority of SoHo routers will already have a DHCP server enabled with a suitable scope configured so the DHCP settings on the router won't need to be touched.
Compare that to telling them to set an IP address, subnet mask, default gateway & DNS servers. Then tell them to keep a note of all the settings and to increment the last octet of the IP address by one for each additional device but being very careful to not use the same IP address twice or you'll get conflicts.
Nah, DHCP is a no brainer IMO.
Nope, I disagree. If people don't know wtf they're doing, what could be easier than leaving the TCP/IP properties of their network card as default (ie, use DHCP)? The vast majority of SoHo routers will already have a DHCP server enabled with a suitable scope configured so the DHCP settings on the router won't need to be touched.
Compare that to telling them to set an IP address, subnet mask, default gateway & DNS servers. Then tell them to keep a note of all the settings and to increment the last octet of the IP address by one for each additional device but being very careful to not use the same IP address twice or you'll get conflicts.
Nah, DHCP is a no brainer IMO.
Agreed 100%.
You can have complete control over the scope and the subnet that gets allocated if you need to.... for different vlans, networks and general network seggregation - but DHCP is the easiest way to sort it all out for the most part. The only things that I ever set to static, are printers, APs, routers and managed switches, and servers (though the latter is less cruicial with modern networks to an extent).
KK - you migh thave to log onto your router and see if you can increase the IP range that the DHCP server is giving out. E.g. 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.200 (gives you more than enough addresses) of course this IP address could be completely different on your router especially if it's set to default values. Once the scope is larger, you can plug any old cheapo switch or even a hub if you want, into the router and you should be fine as long as all the machines are set to automatically acquire and IP adderss.
To set your PC up to be like that go to control panel -> network connections -> right click on you LAN connection -> properties -> double click on TCP/IP -> make sure it is set to "obtain IP address automatically" (though make sure you take down the details first if it has any).
That should be all you need to do. The important thing to understand is you cannot have the same IP address on more than one machine on the same network.
killerkebab
06-12-2006, 16:04
Damn, that must be the problem. We couldnt' log in to our friend's router because he didn't know his access password, and I am willing to bet his settings were something made for the home without bigger LAN in mind.
We also tried without a router (just straight plugging into hub) with the same problems. Bear in mind this was a few months ago and not even using my switch nor router.
However if all I needed was a router that I can actually change settings to to sort it all out for us, then I guess I'll be buying this switch as it seems to be a half decent use of £20 :)
Damn, that must be the problem. We couldnt' log in to our friend's router because he didn't know his access password, and I am willing to bet his settings were something made for the home without bigger LAN in mind.
We also tried without a router (just straight plugging into hub) with the same problems. Bear in mind this was a few months ago and not even using my switch nor router.
That definately won't work :) Each machine needs a unique way of identifying itself to a network, an IP address in this case. Either you assign it automatically (most home routers will do this), or you choose one yourself. If you've not got a router or dhcp server you have to do the latter :)
However if all I needed was a router that I can actually change settings to to sort it all out for us, then I guess I'll be buying this switch as it seems to be a half decent use of £20 :)
Probably would do the trick I imagine, certainly for what you're trying to achieve.
Either you assign it automatically (most home routers will do this), or you choose one yourself. If you've not got a router or dhcp server you have to do the latter :)
Not strictly true with APIPA, but it'll never create a reliable network.
[/pedant]
killerkebab
06-12-2006, 16:40
So guys, in closing:
I will need one router with DHCP functions.
One FS608 switch.
One to seven gamers with a computer each.
Tell the router to assign adresses 192.168.0.x for x between 2 and 254 and plug everybody into the switch, with the router in the final port.
Yes, no?
Yes.
The FS608 is pretty good as low cost switches go. I have one here, though it's currently not in use.
You can plug the router in any port you like. Makes no odds as all the ports on that switch are auto-Uplink (meaning you can connect a PC or a Router/Switch/Hub to any of them).
Also, don't forget that you'll have three available ports on the router (assuming it has four ports as most do) as well as the seven on the switch, so one to ten gamers. :)
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