multiculturism....

[mejinks]

"Britain should celebrate its multicultural society while balancing it with a duty to integrate" - Tony Blair

"Multiculturalism has been a disaster - it has led to a ghetto culture and a great deal of suspicion and resentment. There should be ONE culture in Britain." - Comment

Discuss

Personally, I have no duty to integrate and forcing people to do something they don't want to do will result in greater resentment and bad feeling. I am all for exploring different cultures, if I fancy researching a particular facet of Islam, then I will do it off my own bat, I then have a choice on whether I adopt it or ignore it. What I don't want is to be told that I can't celebrate my religion because it offends someone else.

If Im at home and you have an aversion to me breaking wind what do you do? You leave, don't you?

If Im in your house and I break wind, I would expect to be asked to leave. So why is it so complicated to see that forced integration will not work.

Britain always WAS a multicultural society. Each area of the UK has different ways of life and values. It's the MAGNITUDE of diversity which is causing friction.

British values are wonderful, I love Britishness, multiculturalism at the accelerated rate the integrators demand is eroding too quickly our current concept of Britishness.

Integration needs more time, slow down, allow the people to adapt to change rather than force or coerce.

[Matblack]

Multiculturalism should be a natural process and is to about forced integration but liberal understanding, problem is that there are too many bigots in this bloody country for the natural process to take place so we force things which causes resentment and sets the process back :/

MB

[mejinks]

The whole "Winterval" and "pigless desk" fiascos have both been decried by the Muslim council as offensive.

Im sure its hard enough adjusting to a new country without being mollycoddled and brought into the limelight all the time.

[Tak]

I don't believe in monotheism, my manager is christian and my director is muslim - we can have some brilliant conversations/debates sometimes :D

[Admiral Huddy]

Unfortunatly, I don't believe a multicultural society can ever work because there are always those groups or individuals that are not prepared to integrate or accept one anothers beliefs or ways of life and i think the BA and other recent events are starting to proove that is the case.

[Desmo]

I'm with Huddy, I don't believe MC will ever work as there will always be people on both sides who aren't happy. I also think that we, as humans, are not designed to live along side each other when we have such differing ways of life and beliefs.

[Matblack]

Unfortunatly, I don't believe a multicultural society can ever work because there are always those groups or individuals that are not prepared to integrate or accept one anothers beliefs or ways of life and i think the BA and other recent events are starting to proove that is the case.

I think there is a genuine misconception of what Multiculturalism is here, its not the same as integration in fact its almost the polar opposite


Multiculturalism is an ideology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology) advocating that society should consist of, or at least allow and include, distinct cultural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture) groups, with equal status. Multiculturalism contrasts with the monoculturalism which was historically the norm in the European nation-state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state). (Monoculturalism implies a normative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative) cultural unity, 'monocultural' can be a descriptive term for pre-existing homogeneity). The term multiculturalism is almost always applied to distinct cultures of immigrant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration) groups in developed countries, not to the presence of indigenous peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

Multiculturalism is about recognising the individuality of other cultures and its importance in society. Integration leads in monoculturalism

I totally support multiculturalism as long as people can contribute to society, I believe that people who settle in the UK should have a grasp of the language and should obey the law but apart from that they can believe whatever the hell they like and shouldn't be harmed or resented in my opinion, if they don't want to conform then thats fine :)

MB

[Desmo]

The thing that confuses me is that why have some cultures integrated fine whilst others haven't. How come there is a China Town slap bang in the middle of London and other large cities and yet you never hear of any problems, fights, riots or wanting things, laws and rules changed by them?

Is it the cultures themselves? Or just the way they are perceived by us?

[semi-pro waster]

Is it the cultures themselves? Or just the way they are perceived by us?

I think the way that we (as a collective group) perceive other cultures has a big impact on how we respond to them, it isn't the sole determinant to how well a culture will integrate (or rub along if that is a better choice of words) but it does matter. I find that if, for instance, you meet a new group of people (say you start a new hobby) and feel welcomed then you instantly are more likely to open up to the group whereas if you find them standoffish (probably not a word but y'know :)) then you have to either work doubly hard to make friends or you will generally put up a front so that you don't expose too much of yourself and rely on your own fortitude to get on with it. I think the same happens on a much larger scale with communities in a foreign country.

That said some cultures are almost diametrically opposed to others in their worldview, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to rub along together but integration in some senses will always be impossible with such disparity of views.

Sorry if the above is a bit rambling, I'm just bashing off my thoughts quickly here. :)

[Pheebs]

To be honest, it's a hard topic to discuss because I often feel scared to say things truly from the heart incase they offend/sound racist without meaning to.

However... I am learning that it shouldn't be the case!

IMO, MC societies are fantastic... but there are a variety of complications with them. Basically, Britain seems to have big issues over diversity and has completely fluffed up any decent integration. 'Ethnic minorities' are always in the news without fail and are continuously compared and judged against the "all-white British nation" which I think reflects what many people think and also encourages there to be divides in our society. It seems to me that the government and other agencies are trying very hard to merge these boundaries but in doing so are creating more gaps. An example of this is forcing the 'ethinic majority' to adapt to the culture and style of living of 'ethnic minorities' (ie, changing Christmas lights names to "winter nights" or just dis-allowing them altogether) This, I feel is completely wrong and creates confusion and annoyance - not only in the majority groups but the minority too.

I for sure am livid with things like that. I do not see why British culture has to adopt and adapt to suit those who have moved into the country. Put it like this, if I go to another country, I will completely respect their religion/culture and adapt myself to their lifestyle (though this doesn't mean I would stop carrying out my own traditions ie Christmas and Easter... To be fair, I am all for anyone celebrating and embracing cultural/religious traditions - take to the streets for carnivals and all that - I don't think anyone should be stopped from that.)

The whole veil business too... I don't think I 100% agree with Jack Straw. I can understand that by allowing those of different cultures to be so significantly "different" physically, emphasises that they are "different" and in turn segregates them/makes them easy targets. I would vote that things like that is fine and allows people to become more aware of other cultures and the way it is expressed. Once again though, British people should not be forced to stop doing things like wearing a cross and chain.

I do, however, think things like Muslim Schools are not brilliant ideas. This makes integration near impossible for those who attend. I'm even questioning Catholic Schools tbh.

Basically, I truly think Britain has completely screwed up creating a diverse MC society and what has already started is irreversible. I truly believe from the bottom of my heart that people should be capable of expressing their beliefs in their own time and way... but this should no way alter the "British Culture" and traditions.

*confused now with all that's typed*

[Admiral Huddy]

I havea simpe question and observation? Why do you think the Chinese community are more accepted in our society than the Muslim community?


I fully understand that multiculturalism is an idealism but unfortunately, it is just that "A Collection of ideas". But we live in a more practical world where we need to be more realistic about our surroundings.

Personally, i do not have a problem with anyone living in this country providing they respect and integrate with our own society and culture. Otherwise we are in risk of loosing what culture we do have and I think that Mr Blair (as much as it hurts me for saying this) was right for saying what he did last week.

[Matblack]

Otherwise we are in risk of loosing what culture we do have and I think that Mr Blair (as much as it hurts me for saying this) was right for saying what he did last week.

I disagree

If our so called culture is important then it wouldn't be ripped asunder by a relativel small number of people coming here and practicing their own relegion, that is unless we ourselves destroy it in a feeble attempt not to offend anyone.

When you come down to it the British culture is a bit of a hodgepodge anyway, the majority of it is taken from other cultures, often of countries which were part of the Umpire; for god sake our national dish is pretty much Chicken Tikka Massala! What is there really left? Morris Dancing and the Church of England, two thing which most of the people involved are slight embarassed of :D

MB

[Admiral Huddy]

I disagree

If our so called culture is important then it wouldn't be ripped asunder by a relativel small number of people coming here and practicing their own relegion, that is unless we ourselves destroy it in a feeble attempt not to offend anyone.

When you come down to it the British culture is a bit of a hodgepodge anyway, the majority of it is taken from other cultures, often of countries which were part of the Umpire; for god sake our national dish is pretty much Chicken Tikka Massala! What is there really left? Morris Dancing and the Church of England, two thing which most of the people involved are slight embarassed of :D

MB

Morris Dancers haha :D

I see your point but I see no future for a society whereby certain groups do not speak a word of English or whereby ethnical/culturial buildings are better maintained than our own churches, schools, hospitals etc. I am 100% behind what KC says above, how can groups mix better if when they themselves choose to be segregated into their own groups away from mainsteam society.


When my wife and I travelled, we were expected to respect their culture and she had to cover certian parts of her body. We understood this and respected thier wishes and so it must be here.


Please don't think I'm racist, prejudice or act on discrimination because i'm not this way. I just feel that some groups want the best of both "Idealistic" worlds when It's not possible.

[Desmo]

part of the Umpire
You've been watching too much cricket mate ;D

[Matblack]

You've been watching too much cricket mate ;D

Damn Australian spell-checker :angry:

MB