View Full Version : Does buying the more expensive fuel actually make a difference?
BP have their 'Ultimate' diesel, Shell have their 'V-Power' stuff and I'm sure Esso will soon have an equivalent if they don't already.
Does this stuff actually make any difference to the normal cheaper fuels or is it just marketing hype? If I run a few tanks of V-Power derv through the Feekmobile am I really likely to get an increased MPG of the same or greater percentage than the extra cost?
Or is it all a load of marketing bollocks just intended to get more money over the counter?
The higher grade petrols will definately make a difference if your car has the ability to adapt to it. Don't know much about the diesels though, I'd suspect they're a marketing gimmick which probably just have a more aggressive set of detergents in or something.
FakeSnake
12-12-2006, 10:09
Well I have switched from Tesco 97 to V-Power about 5 tanks ago and noticed very little difference. I still get about 220 miles to a tank and bum-dyno performance is negligable as well.
Only reason I am sticking to it, is because of its cleaning capabilities.
It will be interesting at the next RR meet, as the last one was on Tesco 97 and made 326hp. In theory I should see an improvement.
Evo mag did this review. Basically the outcome was that if your ECU can change the retardation and general fuelling then you could get some gains if only minor. However on forced induction cars you can certainly gain a noticeable and measurable difference. The evo results did dyno runs with all the fuel varieties on a group of different cars. The FI'ed cars did clearly show an improvement with Optimax/V-Power (which is considered to be much better than the rest).
My car is certainly less lumpy and more responsive on Optimax. :)
Matblack
12-12-2006, 10:49
Minnie has been on V-Power from Day one and that is all she will ever get.
It is more expensive but the difference isn't much and the car is ment to have Super UL so it fits the bill.
According to the marketing hype the difference is two fold
a) Higher RON, if the car can use it (The ECU can adapt) this should give more power
b) The quality and quantity of the cleaners in the fuel should keep the injectors and the rest of the fuel system clean and healthy and hence give better long term performance.
Whether you belive this or not is really down to your suceptability to marketing hype and whether you act on it should be down to how hard you drive your car and how long you plan to keep it.
If it means anything at all then the MINI is performing to manufacturer quoted figures or slightly above based on some unscientific tests with a G-Meter. We'll know more on a rolling road ;)
I'd be interested to find out if forced induction improvements is just turbo or if its supercharger too :)
MB
I've shoved a few tanks of ultimate diesel in my car and I didn't notice any difference at all, other than my fuel bill was a bit higher than normal.
I think you'll only really get benefits from Petrol rather than Diesel, purely owing to the higher RON/MON ratings.
However on forced induction cars you can certainly gain a noticeable and measurable difference.
"forced induction" ?
/edit - Ahh, turbocharged, etc, ie non normally aspirated.
Its not worth bothering putting the uber stuff in my Focus, however....
If I put supermarket fuel in then the car is less responsive around the 4k rpm mark and isn't as rev happy. Sticking Esso/BP fuel in it does rev much more happily, which is handy as i'm normally wringing its neck to get it moving. There is a hell of a difference in my cars willingness to get up the rev range.
Apparently mine can adapt to the new fuel, but when you only have 120bhp ish to start with... I won't bother as its my commuter mobile.
Is yours the petrol or the diesel version Focus? I'm guessing petrol.
Is yours the petrol or the diesel version Focus? I'm guessing petrol.
Should have said, its a petrol 1.8
It very much depends on your car, if your car is mapped for 95 RON then put that in , very few are mapped for 97/98 and these are generally performance cars ( I don't mean hot hatch type stuff here )
Turbocharged petrol cars generally show the biggest gains from premium fuels
I am referring to petrol cars in the above as I don't know much about diesels as I don't want to talk to strange people in brown cords and dodgy beards :p
Top Gear also did an investigation into this with different types of cars. Those with full on engine mapping saw the best benefits, those with nowt got little if anything. Mine won't show any improvement because its EMU isn't very fancy at all and it doesn't have many sensors. Apparently the key thing is to have a "knock" sensor? I've been told that enables the EMU to change the timing of the engine to be as efficient as possible and enables it to take advantage of the higher RON. Stuff like VTEC engines will see some advantage. Whether its cost effective is a whole other argument :) I know someone who swears by it and sees a nice efficiency gain that more than offsets the cost.
I have a toggle jumper thing under the bonnet. Unplug it, plug it the other way around and it changes the engine map to use a different RON fuel. Unfortunately its for the old (93 I think?) and current 95 only, no 97 option :)
Apparently the key thing is to have a "knock" sensor?
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5803/doorbelllj3.jpg?
As already said it very much depends on your car. Mine has the ECU mapped for higher RON fuel and the knock sensor. I get a clear performance difference and always use V-Power or Ultimate (well where possible, sometimes some petrol stations don;t have it and i have to use the other muck :( ). Poor Tochi doesn't like it when I give him the cheap stuff ;)
Are we going to have a Supermarket isn't as good as Shell debate? I hope not.
Basically, you WILL see a difference if you are using supermarket fuel and then change to V-power PROVIDING you have a car with adaptable ECU. This is because supermarket fuel is basically the same as say Shells normal unleaded, it just doesn't have the additives such as detergents and stuff that Shell normally put in.
The last time I changed to Optimax it took 4 tanks of the stuff before the car learned the new fuel and I can say it did make a big difference to me. Also, on a Dyno run, my car made 197 HP whereas it should only have made 193 as standard.
With my car which has no fancy ECUs or knock sensors and the like, is it worth chucking a tank of the expensive stuff in it every now and then for the other additives? Give the engine a bit of an internal cleaning?
With my car which has no fancy ECUs or knock sensors and the like, is it worth chucking a tank of the expensive stuff in it every now and then for the other additives? Give the engine a bit of an internal cleaning?
The only benefit is to the oil company. You are better off chucking some redex injector or carb cleaner in every 10k miles or so.
With my car which has no fancy ECUs or knock sensors and the like, is it worth chucking a tank of the expensive stuff in it every now and then for the other additives? Give the engine a bit of an internal cleaning?
It takes several tanks worth to start doing any "cleaning" - frankly in a N/A car that hasn't been mapped to 97+ RON there's very little point.
Owing to the nature of FI'ed cars the calorific values of fuel do become very important. With a proper map alone you can gain a significant increase in power. Obviously this is all down to how well the ECU adapts and also if it has a mapping to cope with it.
Mejinks, I'd disagree, supermarkert SUL is certainly not as good as Optimax (numerous magazines and reports have proved this, as have dyno runs for my car and bike), Tesco 99RON is a bit of a con, they've increased solely the RON rating but leave the MON untouched - which is equally as important. MON simulates more severe operation that might be incurred at high speed or high load whereas RON is low load and speed. This all makes it more efficient at burning fuel (once again if your car can adapt/cope with it).
By having a knock sensor the system allows an engine to operate very near its detonation limit -thereby improving power and efficiency. If the ECU can incorporate the readings from this sensor it can draw all the benefits from the better fuel.
Mejinks, I'd disagree, supermarkert SUL is certainly not as good as Optimax .
]
I think he was referring to 95/97 Ron petrol
The supermarkets buy it on the Rotterdam spot market, so you could quite easily be getting Shell fuel from asda ( 95 )
]
I think he was referring to 95/97 Ron petrol
The supermarkets buy it on the Rotterdam spot market, so you could quite easily be getting Shell fuel from asda ( 95 )
Ah in that case I agree. :)
I replied to Wills post above, but like several replies today it has disappeared?:huh:
I replied to Wills post above, but like several replies today it has disappeared?:huh:
I'll ask Daz about that. Seems weird. :huh:
So do I, or don't I on my 2000 Focus?
So do I, or don't I on my 2000 Focus?
No , not at all :)
No , not at all :)
Seconded. :)
Von Smallhausen
14-12-2006, 22:49
It does.
If I put normal unleaded in the MR2 and cane it, the engine will go bang. I have put a small amount in before when I have ran low but I drive it very carefully until I can fill it up.
The higher RON value is what the engine and ECU are mapped for and higher grade petrol is a must.
Might as well start contributing on day one :)
As stated, higher octane (RON) fuel is only really advantageous if your ECU is capable of advancing the ignition on your engine to benefit from it.
Particularly in turbocharged engines where the higher charge temperatures due to the immense heat generated by the turbocharger (being driven by exhaust gases and spinning at up to 150,000rpm), can cause the fuel to pre-ignite or detonate (det) before the spark plug sparks, which can damage the engine, as the explosion is not occurring at the correct time.
Higher octane fuel is more resistant to detonation, and therefore an engine using it can be run at more lairy timings. Some cars like the Mitsubishi Evolution 1-9 HAVE to be run on 97RON plus to avoid det due to the engine mapping.
So unless you have a high rpm (VTEC etc) or perfomance N/A engine or a F/I engine - keep your wallet in your pocket :)
Its also worth pointing out that Tesco 99RON is not properly refined fuel, its just 95RON with a truckload of ethanol in it to increase the RON. There are reports that on some cars, prolonged use of ethanol additive fuel can rot fuel lines and/or components.
Shell V-Power is, on the other hand properly refined 99RON fuel
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.