View Full Version : 360 achievement discussion/need some help for my postgrad work
I've decided for one of my assignments that I'm writing for next week, that I want to write it on the 360 achievement system as it's intrigued me so much. The fact it persuades me to do tasks that I wouldn't normally do (I spent all day yesterday playing Uno just to get the achievement for winning 40 games :embarassed:).
But I want to know your opinion of it.
Longish answers would be fantastic but anything is good, so if you can find the time to write up your opinion and experiences of the achievement system, whether it's affected how you play or not, whether it's made you more competitive, made you play more games etc. Whatever :)
Thank you very much for any help you can offer. :)
leowyatt
08-01-2007, 14:32
I'll have a think and try to put the mess in my brain down in an email or something :D when do you want it by?
Next couple of days would be great :) Ideally tomorrow but can accept it's short notice! Can post here or email me, I don't mind at all.
leowyatt
08-01-2007, 14:34
ok will try and sort something out tonight for you. Given the time frame it won't be that long but I'll do what I can.
Matblack
08-01-2007, 14:41
Hasn't changed my style of play at all, just very occationally makes me feel slightly inadequate :(
MB
just very occationally makes me feel slightly inadequate :(
How come?
Matblack
08-01-2007, 14:50
How come?
Other buggers who have big x-penises :(
I do like to use it to rank myself against others for particular games, thats quite a good feature. I comented to Leo the other day on how many points Burble had managed to get on Star Wars Lego II for example
MB
leowyatt
08-01-2007, 15:28
Apologies for crap spelling or grammar :( Been trying to write this while it was in my head. Hope it makes sense too ;D
My experience with the achievements system is only limited to around 3 weeks so I'm still getting to grips with it all. Before I got my xbox I saw the gamercards of various members and without knowing too much about it I aquaited a high score to a highly skilled individual. I have since found out that isn't necessarily the case and different games hand out different achievements. With some it is extremely easy to get achievements and in others it is more difficult. For me an achievement should be something that requires time and skill to achieve, obviously training missions at the start of games may provide you with an achievement which in my opinion is a good thing and it rewards you for learing how the game works.
Initially I haven't paid any attention to the system because I've never had anything like this on my previous consoles or gaming experiences, I just wanted to play my games and to be totally honest that is the way I see myself continuing for the time being or at least until I complete the actual game. I have noticed the achivement alert appear on my screen but haven't checked to see exactly what achievement it was. Once I have finished the game I will then go back check what achievements I have left to complete in order to obtain everything. Also the only reason I'll go after an achievements is if I am interested in the game or the task the achievement represents. There is only 1 game so far I have looked at the all achievements for and that is Gears of War. I'm quite confident in saying this is one game where the achivements system could get extremely addictive as I will aim for as many as I can achieve. I recently completed the game in casual over the weekend and originally I would have just thought, "that's it I'm done" but now I'm going to go through hardcore and Insane, not necessarily because of the achievements but because I enjoy the game. I won't play games just for the sake of getting achievements and improving my score I play the games because I'm genuinely interested in them.
Given my limited experience I can say it will change the way I play my games, in a way for the better as it will allow me to get more out of the game. I think it also gives the user an idea of exactly what is in the game, extras they might have not been aware were there.
leowyatt
08-01-2007, 15:35
Hopefully it is what you want :) if anything isn't clear give me a shout.
Nope perfectly clear thanks :)
Just going to use various people's comments as evidence to back up my ideas about things.
There's shockingly little research done on it.
Davey_Pitch
08-01-2007, 16:15
Right, if a long answer is what you want, a long answer is what I'll try to provide.
I personally believe the Xbox 360 achievement point system is one of the most useful additions to gaming in a very long time. For a long time in gaming the only rewards we got for finishing a game (besides the actual sense of accomplishment if it was a difficult game) were perhaps some bonus outfits for a character, perhaps a new weapon or two, or some bonus artwork or music. Every now and then a game would offer additional levels or game modes for finishing levels. The one game that instantly springs to mind is Manhunt, which would unlock bonus levels if you finished 4 consecutive levels with a 4 star or higher rating (and the bonus levels were fun too).
Now, with the achievement system, we have another reward for doing well in games. Obviously, the point system gives us nothing in terms of in-game extras, but I feel that getting a high achievement score in a game means that I've put a good bit of effort into that game to achieve it (with the exception of some sports games where you can get 1000 in about 30 mins - NHL 2k6 and NBA 2k6 being prime examples of this).
I like the games where 1000 is fairly difficult to get, but achievable all the same. You look at a lot of players' profiles and you'll see 1000/1000 on games like the aforementioned sports games, as well as simpler games like Cars, Open Season and the like. However, you'll find very very few people have over say 600/1000 on games like Dead Rising, which actually require you to put in a lot of effort and thought to get that high. Getting 1000 points in a game like that means that you've put in a ton of effort, as there is no way to cheat or sim your way through it in order to boost your gamerscore.
Has the achievement point system changed the way I play games? Yes, I would say so. I will still put in a lot of time into games I love, irrespective of whether I've already got the full points, or whether playing the game in the way I love will earn me any more (for example PES6, I may never bother getting all of the different league achievements as I prefer playing as Real Madrid and playing online). The achievement system has certainly meant I always try to get a little bit more out of games though. For example, before I traded in Top Spin 2 I played through and beat every character in exhibition matches to get 2 extra achievements, and even though I think King Kong sucks major ass (poor level design, bad gameplay mechanics, uninspiring gameplay and weapons), I'll still likely play through it to completion as I know doing so will give me 1000 points. There will be games that I just leave though. I never got to grips with Dead or Alive 4, so even though I had a measly 10 points, I traded it in as I knew I'd never like it enough to put in the time required to get the achievement points. Getting a decent score in games like Condemned and King Kong is the reason I still own them even though they'd be useful to trade in for other games I fancy playing. The achievement system is effectively making me get the monies worth from the games.
Has it made me more competitive? Probably not, I'm competitive enough, but I do like comparing my score to others, and seeing what games I score better than them, and vice versa. Seeing people with high scores in games that I own often makes me want to play those games as the points are obviously achievable. There are also people on my friends list (like Creature) who I would like to try and catch, though as he's a slacking student that probably won't ever happen. Still, it's a target for me.
Has it made me play more games? Yes, I would say so, in two different ways. One: now I rent games I do look for some of the easier 1000 point games so I can boost my score, I do admit to being guilty of that. Two: I look at games that interest me and see what the achievements are like. Some games contain achievements that look really interesting in how you would achieve it (like Frank The Pimp in Dead Rising, escorting 8 female survivors at once, something not easily done), and that may make me want to play the game more. I enjoy a challenge in my games so if a game interests me and has challenging (but achievable) targets then I'll be more likely to give it a whirl.
Ramble over, for now. I've probably got a lot more thoughts in my head about it, so if you have any other questions Jen fire away as they may spark off some more rambling :D
Thank you very much for a very comprehensive reply :D
If I have any more questions for any of you later on, I'll post them up :)
leowyatt
08-01-2007, 16:31
what I tried to say but more eloquently
:D
Fortyseven
08-01-2007, 17:55
It has changed the way I play games but not a large amount. I still will only play games if I enjoy them and will not pick up a game for an easy 1000 points. It has changed the way I play in that I will try to get the most out of the games that I do enjoy, maybe playing them after completing them or playing modes I wouldn't normally play to gain the achievements (Royal Rumbles on SVR, Activities on Saints Row after finishing the game.)
I prefer achievements that are gained while playing through the game the first time, not just for completing the levels (eg Gears of War) but doing things like conserving ammo (Call of Duty 3.) I also don't like that fact that online achievements can only be gained in ranked servers and no invtations can go to friends when in a ranked server. This is to stop people using friends to gain the achievements by letting them win but it just means that they are letting people like that ruin it for everyone else. I also hate secret achievements as I have no motivation to continually play a game to try and find out what these things are.
Some more questions for you lot.
Do you find yourself addicted to the achievement system?
If not, what are your thoughts on this? Do you know anyone who seems addicted?
Do you think it could become addictive?
leowyatt
11-01-2007, 17:08
Personally I am not addicted to the achievement system, I see it as an extension of my game playing experience.
Depending on the actual personality of the gamer and I could see it becoming addictive as they will purely be focused on their score. They could perceive it to be an indication of how good they are, a kinda e-penis thing :D
I don't know anyone who is addicted, though perhaps Creature :P
Davey_Pitch
11-01-2007, 18:34
Am I addicted to the achievement system? No, though I do think it presents a way to extend the life of a game if some of the achievements need multiple play throughs to get (who knows if I would have gone through Dead Rising so much if I wasn't aiming for the achievements). I do know when to stop though, for example I rented Fifa World Cup 2006 with the aim of getting 1000 points, but the game is so crap compared to PES6 I got the easy 500 points and left it, I won't bother getting the difficult 500, it's not worth the time or effort.
The main person I know who seems addicted is McDaniel from The-Reviewer. He downloads his games so can get a lot of them, and I know for a fact he goes through games simply for points a lot of the time. Games that require time and effort to get maximum points (like Dead Rising) will be played for a bit and then left aside. If he enjoys himself, then fair play to him, but going solely for points would surely become a chore in the end, for me at least. I like to enjoy my gaming, and use the achievement system to help with that, rather than aiming for points and trying to enjoy myself along the way.
Ty both :) You've both been used ;)
Just finished it at last :D Just hope it's any good. My main concern is the referencing as the lecturer marking it has a thing about wanting us to use mainly journals and books, which is fair enough and I agree in many cases. But in the case of something as new as X-Box 360s, no one really wants to write about them besides games journalists which he's not so keen on :undecided:
So just have to see. :) Managed to find a few 'respectable' people to reference at least.
Ty all who helped. :)
No idea if anyone's interested in the results but if so have a look on http://www.halycopter.com for a PDF or http://www.halycopter.com/uni/achievement.pdf for the direct link. There's a few other essays on there that might be of interest, I apologise for any crapness :p
leowyatt
29-01-2007, 17:32
Have you got your result??
Not yet :/ I get it later in the week although as they've allowed me to come back, I'm hoping it means I passed ;D
With hindsight I reckon I could have done better but I am my worst critic.
Let you know when I find out :)
McDan1el
15-09-2007, 16:05
The main person I know who seems addicted is McDaniel from The-Reviewer. He downloads his games so can get a lot of them, and I know for a fact he goes through games simply for points a lot of the time. Games that require time and effort to get maximum points (like Dead Rising) will be played for a bit and then left aside. If he enjoys himself, then fair play to him, but going solely for points would surely become a chore in the end, for me at least. I like to enjoy my gaming, and use the achievement system to help with that, rather than aiming for points and trying to enjoy myself along the way.
Old thread, but your analysis is not strictly true.
Granted i play alot of games to get achievements - but i dont play them purely for that reason, most i play because i want to, achievements just make me get the most out of them. Dead Rising was just **** so it was put aside imo one of the worst games on the 360 just so boring, if i could stand playing it i would have got more points it wasnt because it was hard - just i hated it!
So no i dont play purely for points, but they can sometimes (read: most times) get me to play games more/try different approaches etc...
Mwhahahahahaha
Name searching? :)
That's what I thought, but then I also thought I'd be just as likely to do that myself. ;D
McDan1el
15-09-2007, 16:53
Mwhahahahahaha
Name searching? :)
Indeed :)
Davey_Pitch
15-09-2007, 17:28
Old thread, but your analysis is not strictly true.
Granted i play alot of games to get achievements - but i dont play them purely for that reason, most i play because i want to, achievements just make me get the most out of them. Dead Rising was just **** so it was put aside imo one of the worst games on the 360 just so boring, if i could stand playing it i would have got more points it wasnt because it was hard - just i hated it!
So no i dont play purely for points, but they can sometimes (read: most times) get me to play games more/try different approaches etc...
Piss off, Dead Rising is great, you're just crap at it :p
McDan1el
15-09-2007, 17:31
Piss off, Dead Rising is great, you're just crap at it :p
I disagree :p
plus im only crap at sports games
I'm crap at Dead Rising but I still think it's an extremely refreshing game to play :) Makes a change to see a developer try something new for once.
NokkonWud
15-09-2007, 21:58
I must admit, I'm the same as Dan. I'll happily get as many points out of games I enjoy, or if I really enjoyed the SP and there are some MP achievements to get then I'll glitch them online with someone just so the game is 'complete'.
If I buy a game I like to get stuff out of it, or if I miss some and someone is willing to do them for me in return for me getting some for them then I am all for that too.
However, the achievements are also important to me in the terms that I feel it's a severe loss not to have them on the PS3 or Wii.
Davey_Pitch
15-09-2007, 22:18
In many ways I'm the same, but my gamesplaying is always dominated by the fun side of things. If I don't get enjoyment out of a game, I'll get rid of it even if I've only got a few points from it. On the flipside, if I love a game, I'll play it for ages even if it means not getting any more points because I've got them all :)
NokkonWud
16-09-2007, 14:08
Yeah, I've got some games on my list I really didn't like: FarCry, Rumble Roses XX, Zero G, Just Cause etc.. which I just couldn't get on with, I may go back to them, I may not, but I wasn't gonna play something I didn't like just for the points.
On the flipside, I've piled around 200-250 hours into Football Manager 2006. Imagine how many points I could have gotten from other games in that time!!
Creature
17-09-2007, 00:26
Yeah, I've got some games on my list I really didn't like: FarCry, Rumble Roses XX, Zero G, Just Cause etc.. which I just couldn't get on with, I may go back to them, I may not, but I wasn't gonna play something I didn't like just for the points.Strangly enough, 4 games I also detest.
Davey_Pitch
17-09-2007, 09:23
I actually bought Just Cause at the weekend (along with NFS: Carbon, and Stranglehold, for £5!), and I love it. I rented it ages ago and I think it's great, really open and a great way to waste a bit of time. I just need to tear myself away from the COD4 Beta long enough to actually play it :)
I've got Just Cause after enjoying watching MB play it, not played it a huge deal yet but I enjoy it :D It's got its faults but despite them, it's fun.
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