Reflection

[Dr. Z]

Some shots from tonight:

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset012s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset022s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset044s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset016s.jpg

[Dr. Z]

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset023s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset050s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset055s.jpg

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset076s.jpg

[Blackstar]

Very nice, hopefully you can get some nice ones of Edinburger.

[Dr. Z]

One more I missed somehow!

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/westkirbysunset041s.jpg

[Haly]

Very nice :)
Makes me want to buy a camera, not good :(

[Desmo]

I'd love a decent camera along with some knowlege on how to use it properly. I think I've actually got quite a good eye for photos judging by some I've taken in the past.

[leowyatt]

I know what you mean Desmo, we have a Canon A95 and working out how to use that properly is a challenge.

Do you think one of our camera gurus could set some tasks so we can learn how to use them properly?

[William]

I have two cameras, neither is digital they are both second hand flim SLRs I think one was £80 the other was £200 with a lens, but you don't need a good camera to get great shots, it just makes it slightly easier. A lecturer at the college I went to did every one of his portfolios on a plastic disposable and they were amazing pictures. You can learn lots about composition and filters and lenses but best is just to get out there use up a load of films or in the C21st, memory sticks.

Basically for ease:

Rule of threes + Interesting subject + interesting shadows = win.

Which is why its good to take photos early morning or late evening.


A great photo for showing this is (I always forget the name but hopefully someone will know who I am on about)

Its a picture which is black and white. It is of a brick courtyard which is flooded and a person is jumping from one object to another and is reflected in the water. The interesting thing is the shape of the jumping person's arms match a clock tower in the background. Any ideas anyone?

I'm thinking it might be Bill Brant or someone...

[Dr. Z]

Leowyatt - I see you are on Merseyside! I am as well, as is cykey (petemc on here) so maybe one time you get come out to something like that (which was just a walk around a public lake at West Kirby) and have a play. At the end of the month there is going to be a meetup of a few of the "famous faces" from the photography forum 'over there' so perhaps you could come along to that?

To learn to take a good shot you need to learn what effect changing every setting on the camera does and why you would want to do that in a particular situation. An A95 is a great place to start from - I know of a few people that had A-series cameras and have got some stunning results from them. The only bad point is the shutterlag and the very slow focus speed but in most cases that wont be a huge problem.

Everything is a compromise and it is balancing it all out in favour of what you want to achieve that means you get a good shot.

There are three things that affect exposure: Shutter speed and Aperture are the two main factors and then you have ISO speed.

Aperture is the size of the hole that the light comes in through and gives you the most creative control of your shots. The number you see is given as F/x because it is related to the focal length of the lens. The longer the lens, the bigger the actual hole needs to be for any given F-stop. That probably sounds like gobbledeygook but its how the maths of it works :p

What that means for your photo is this: the bigger the aperture (smallest number) the more light that gets to see the sensor (or film). Wider apertures mean a smaller Depth of Field though, which is basically how much of the frame is in focus before and after the point that you focussed on. If you want to lock someones eyes into a particular part of a photo, you would want a small amount in focus with the rest blurred so choose a small number. If you are taking a landscape shot its the exact opposite - you want as much in focus as you can so go for the smallest aperture you can get (biggest number).

It sounds complicated but it isnt! It just takes getting used to!

Shutter speed is the next most important one. Depending on what you are doing you can use varying shutter speeds with little effect on the output. As long as your shutter speed is fast enough so that camera shake doesnt matter you will "get the shot" as long as you get the exposure right. The only real exception to that is sports where your shutter is the most imortant factor. It is possible to shoot sports/motorsport with a point and shoot but it is a frustrating experience and VERY hard to get a great shot because of the shutter lag as I mentioned earlier.

ISO speed is the same as film ISO speed. Generally speaking, the lower the number the better the shot but as it gets dark you can turn this up to get shorter exposure times to let you get shots you otherwise wouldnt get!

Thats all of the technical stuffs - the rest is all about picking the right subject and composing the shot well. Lighting plays a role and once you get going you will pick up on what shots need what lighting. Landscapes are the hardest of all! Have a look on the net for "The rule of thirds" and incorporate that into your shots. Loads of P&S cameras have a rule of thirds grid that you can superimpose over the LCD display. If you are struggling to find the thirds with your eye then thats a very easy way of learning!

As far as 'setting tasks' - just go out and take photos of anything and everything. Learn how to use photoshop or similar and just keep going! Look for inspiration and ideas in other peoples shots too :)

[Desmo]

DRZ, I assume you'll be taking your camera to the BBQ again? Any chance I could have a go?
Would be a good chance to chat as well as we never really seem to talk properly at a meet :)

[Dr. Z]

Absolutely no problem whatsoever :)

You are on my list of victims anyway :p Haly has been dealt with, so now I am moving on down the list! :D

[leowyatt]

Thanks for that info there DRZ :)

I'll certainly try and get out when you lot are meeting. I've been playing around with apeture and shutter speed which has been very interesting. The ISO thing I hadn't thought about so will throw that together and see what comes out.

The main problem I have is the flash over-exposing the picture, that the correct term? From what you've said I would need a big apeture and a fastish shutter speed?

[Desmo]

You are on my list of victims anyway :p
:eek:

Would be good to have a god on some decent equipment along with a guiding hand :)
I'm not a photographer by any stretch but I love decent pictures and I think I could pick it up well.

[Dr. Z]

Flash from a P&S is very unnatural. Think about almost every situation you ever come across - the light comes from above and is diffuse - its not a beam of bright light coming from straight ahead! With an onboard flash, that is exactly what you get - harsh, stark light from the wrong place. Take a bit of card and bounce the flash off it up to the ceiling and the results are instantly better, you just need to adjust the exposure to compensate. I have only just got myself a flash so I am still very much learning with it but basically the shutter speed and aperture control the balance between the naturally available light and the light from the flash.

Desmo, if you want to get into it as a bit of a hobby there are some sweet "creative compacts" which produce image quality on a par with a reasonable SLR setup once you are used to it, but at a fraction of the cost. I dont know what you have now but if you want to move away from snaps etc it might be worth looking into :)

What I mean by that is this; If you take my first shot in this thread, it would cost (in terms of the kit I was using):

£600ish for the body
£100 for the grip
£1100 for the lens
£80 for the polariser
£50 for the memory
etc

Thats not far off £2000! :eek: The same shot is perfectly attainable with something like a Canon S3 IS which you can get for about £330 or so. DSLRs arent the be all and end all and I freely admit it is almost total overkill for my skill level! :)

[leowyatt]

Exposure, does that alter the light getting to the sensor too?

I was originally thinking of getting the Sony V3 but couldn't afford it and got the A95.

[Dr. Z]

Exposure is the total amount of light getting to the sensor. Overexposed means too much light generally, underexposed means too little. Shutter speed, aperture and ISO all vary the exposure basically.

You can have varying degrees of that including what is called "blown highlights". A sensor has what is called a dynamic range which is the brightest thing it can display right down to the darkest thing. Light hitting the scene creates highlights.

Imagine a scene where you are stood in the shade looking out over a scene. - if you expose for the shadowy bit, you will overexpose the scene if it is a bright day, "blowing" the highlights (almost impossible to recover, and at any rate all detail is lost). A classic example of blown highlights is in one of my shots above - the silhouette of the people walking along the path. The reflection of the sun in the water is blown out in parts - thats unavoidable in shots like that but say if it was a photo of someone's face using a direct flash, you can blow the highlights in the light on the subjects face - not pretty.

[leowyatt]

I seem to remember you can actually manually alter the exposure on the camera by -2/+2

[Dr. Z]

In auto modes you can use exposure compensation, yes. Basically that means it will use a different shutter speed (or aperture if its in a sports mode) depending on where you set the compensation.

In full manual mode, it wont make any difference to your shots and you will be all on your own!

In the semi-manual modes I use I tend to have my camera set to -1 EV (underexposing by 1 stop) because Canons tend to overexpose slightly. In full manual it is all down to me :)

[Tak]

*Tries to read information posts - brain gives up and hides*

I have tried to read stuff on how to be a good photgrapher but as soon as I see things like "rule of 3" or "apeture" or "DoF" my brain shuts down - I just can't seem to understand any of it :embarassed:

I see something I like, I point, I click, sometimes I'll fiddle with zoom or flashes or auto-settings but that is about it :embarassed:

[leowyatt]

I tend to use the sport mode most but have been playing around with the shutter and apeture priority modes. Learning how things work, I tried the manual setting but that was a disaster :(

I'll set the exposure to -1 and have a go. Should be a good day today as it's nice and light.

EDIT: Takhisis - there is a good tutorial I saw on the web that explains bits about exposure and stuff as DRZ has said. Don't worry about your brain going "blergh!" when you see rule of 3 I'm still sturggling with that.

My best bit of advice is to get your camera and play around with all apeture and shutter speeds and try taking photos on each setting seeing how they come out.

[Tak]

I printed off a load of tutorials from photoxels but every time I try to read them, my brain does a runner :embarassed:

[Dr. Z]

The rule of thirds is EASY to get your head around! If you can understand and work with DoF and aperture then you should be able to grasp the rule of thirds!

Basically, the eye finds something appealing when it is on a third line. If you divide up the shots you like into three you will see that the main focus or something important in the image is on a third. You can expand that in all different ways but basically, on or near a third = good shot, dead central - bad.

I will go and make an example now!

[leowyatt]

Haha I know what you mean, do you have a tripod? seriously you tend to learn better playing around and learning what it does. Use the guides as a glossary or something but try playing with each setting and seeing how it affects the photo your taking which is why taking the same photo using a tripod would probably be the best idea

EDIT: do you mean the focus should always be at the bottom of the picture?

[Dr. Z]

http://www.statichiss.co.uk/thirds.jpg

The black line is more or less the centre of the shot. The red line is roughly 1/3rd the way down from the top. It doesnt need to be exact!

In this case there is a shallow DoF to help lock your eyes into the subject even more but even if there was a larger DoF, your eyes would rest there because its on a third :)

Once you get out of the habit of centering your subject in the frame your shots will improve loads as a result :)

Of course, there is knowing when not to follow the rules, but thats for another time :p

[leowyatt]

Of course, there is knowing when not to follow the rules, but thats for another time :p

Next lesson please :D

[Tak]

I like it - Durz's Idiots guide to photography and terminology :)

Thank you - I kinda understand - just have to try and put it into practise :embarassed:

[leowyatt]

Actually I have a question about that shot, did you tell the camera to use the person as the focus subject, becuase my intial thoughts is that if I took that photo my camera would focus on the middle of the shot but the rest would be blured :(

I can move the focus window round on the view finder in which case I'd move it over the bloke sat down and it should produce a similar picture to that

[Dr. Z]

Next lesson please :D

Some shots, mainly abstract-style shots require you to break the rules, or they just wont work.

Maybe other people "used" to the rule of thirds will know what I mean when I say that once you are used to putting things on thirds etc it just comes naturally so when a shot you want to make dead central comes along, its a bit strange. Bit further down the line that, though :)

To start out "learning" this is what I suggest you do:

TOTALLY stop using automatic modes. If you have it, use Aperture Priority mode (Av) for the time being. Take shots, adjust the aperture and let the camera work out what shutter speed you want. You will learn more creativity this way than you will in either Tv (shutter priority) or manual modes because you have the most control of the shot whilst being almost certain to get the exposure right. After a while you will learn what shutter speeds go with what apertures in what lighting. You just get a sense for it and when you pick that up you can then use manual for the really creative stuff. I would say 95% of the time my camera is in Av mode and I dont think I have taken more than 10 shots in all of the fully manual modes combined over the entire lifetime I have had the camera!

Take your camera EVERYWHERE - when you go for walks/drives etc take it with you and take photos of things that catch your eye. Be critical of your shots and bin all but the very best. The set I posted in this thread were the result of roughly 100 exposures. A keepers ratio of 10% is about right really.

Most importantly, and it really goes without saying but HAVE FUN doing it! Its no good if you feel its a chore! I take my camera to places I enjoy going and watch things I like doing/watching, not just for the sake of getting a good shot. If you arent enjoying something it *will* show in your shots! :)

EDIT:

For that shot I set a different autofocus point - I have 7 to choose from in my viewfinder. I set it to the one closest to where I wanted to frame the shot, focussed, recomposed (keeping the focus locked) for the shot I wanted and then took the shot :)