Media server and anyone got an old video card? [Archive]

Feek

09-04-2007, 18:19

I'm going to build my old SFF Shuttle as some kind of dedicated media server type box. I've not thought it through in detail yet though so any advice would be good as to what I can do with it and how to do it.

But due to the fact it's a small box, and the video card I have doesn't allow me to put the cover on (6600GT), I want to put any old crappy card in there.

Mainly because it'll allow me to put the cover back on but also because it'll generate a lot less heat and means the box will run a bit cooler.

So three things really.

1) Suggestions about what to do with it, whether I should just copy all my audio/video into it and share the folder or somehow make it a real 'media centre', whatever that means!

2) Has anyone got an old video card, it can be AGP or PCI, I don't mind which but it needs to be one without huge coolers on the side. Passive cooling would be even better. It really doesn't matter what it's like as it's going to be headless.

3) Best way to control it remotely, VNC, PCAnywhere, what?

Garp

09-04-2007, 18:35

Dym is tackling this tomorrow with my old SFF box.. aiming to install Media Centre Edition on it and we'll see where we go from there. Being windows hopefully we'll be able to RDP to it (RDP > VNC).

Dymetrie

09-04-2007, 18:37

Copycat...

I'll keep you posted on progress (and also probably ask questions while I'm doing it :p)

leowyatt

09-04-2007, 19:36

Feek we have an old AGP MX200 card knocking around if you want it.

Mark

09-04-2007, 20:11

Radeon 9200 SE 64MB, AGP, DVI and S-Video only (VGA port removed because it got in the way of closing my SFF case), low profile, passive, card only. Plenty capable of playing video but if you want anything 3D, think again. FOC @ the kiddies meet if you want it. :)

MCE isn't particularly smart about sharing media over the network (aka I've had trouble with it). There are similar 3rd party offerings which will do a similar job. Or, if you're feeling really adventurous and have time to burn, you could try setting up an upscaler based around ffdshow. CPU horsepower not optional in the latter case.

Feek

09-04-2007, 22:03

I think I'm using the term media centre perhaps incorrectly, I think all it'll end up doing is being a network share with media files in.

I've been advised by the 'mine of information' that the 9200SE would be the better option. I will need to plug a monitor in while I build it so I assume I could just use a DVI>VGA adapter for that?

RDP is the other method I was thinking of, the name of which escaped me ;)

Mark

09-04-2007, 22:49

You can certainly do that, and that's how I used it as well. Just one point about running headless - the card wants to use the (removed) VGA connector if you power on with no monitor connected, so plugging a monitor in later will yield a blank screen. Cured by reboot.

PS - I'm not sure if the VGA header is standard or documented, so it might be possible to reinstate the VGA connector should you be so inclined.

Mark

11-04-2007, 18:58

Should I be well enough to attend Chessington, does Mr. Feek wish for me to bring the Radeon 9200SE? :)

Dymetrie

11-04-2007, 19:09

**update**

Have installed MCE on the mediabox and it seems to be running mostly ok (streams are good, drivers seem a bit shoddy). Gonna have more of a look at it tomorrow to see if it's worth sticking with MCE or rolling back to XP.

Networked the house today (myself and my brother), 80 metres of cable, 200 cable clips. We ran out of cable clips :embarassed:

Very pleased with the outcome, was worth paying out a few quid (literally just a few) for some decent white cable which turned out to be excellent pliable stuff and was moderately easy to lay.

Once I get the s-video out working with the scart adaptor then I'll know how good the result is on the TV, at the moment the only monitor the system will output to is the one I stole off testpattern's rig while he was away :p

Advice on getting s-video out to work welcome....

Daz

11-04-2007, 19:11

Never had any trouble getting s-video to work, but the quality has always been nothing short of awful. Probably me though.

What you planning on using it for Dym? :)

Dymetrie

11-04-2007, 19:21

Never had any trouble getting s-video to work, but the quality has always been nothing short of awful. Probably me though.

What you planning on using it for Dym? :)

It's an SFF I stole (hur hur hur) off Jarp which I've transplanted into the lounge to work as a media box to view offsite backups...

S-Video out from a 9500 pro/9700 GFX into a scart converter which will be plugged into the mess of wires which constitute the TV...

So far MCE is working well, it can read and stream the shared files off Phoenix but so far I've not managed to get the TV to recognise the input (Only tried for about 20 minutes yesterday though).

I think there's a problem with the MCE install so will try and sort that tomorrow (it said the GFX drivers weren't compatible.... latest ATIs...) and has brought up some other errors.

Overall though I've been liking MCE, the GUI is nice, if a little restricted in how much you can customise it (unless I'm missing something).

Might look into VGA->SCART if that's any good, really want to get this thing working...

Feek

11-04-2007, 19:49

Should I be well enough to attend Chessington, does Mr. Feek wish for me to bring the Radeon 9200SE? :)

Yes please. Not sure what you mean about the VGA though, has the card been butchered or is it just a header?

Daz

11-04-2007, 19:54

It's an SFF I stole (hur hur hur) off Jarp which I've transplanted into the lounge to work as a media box to view offsite backups...

S-Video out from a 9500 pro/9700 GFX into a scart converter which will be plugged into the mess of wires which constitute the TV...

So far MCE is working well, it can read and stream the shared files off Phoenix but so far I've not managed to get the TV to recognise the input (Only tried for about 20 minutes yesterday though).

I think there's a problem with the MCE install so will try and sort that tomorrow (it said the GFX drivers weren't compatible.... latest ATIs...) and has brought up some other errors.

Overall though I've been liking MCE, the GUI is nice, if a little restricted in how much you can customise it (unless I'm missing something).

Might look into VGA->SCART if that's any good, really want to get this thing working...

Try and get it working with the TV as a second monitor type thing, then send MCE over to it and try it's setup wizard wotsit.

If you have trouble with the drivers, you could consider trying a linux box running MythTV. I believe you have a man in the house who has experience with it :)

Dymetrie

11-04-2007, 20:03

Try and get it working with the TV as a second monitor type thing, then send MCE over to it and try it's setup wizard wotsit.

If you have trouble with the drivers, you could consider trying a linux box running MythTV. I believe you have a man in the house who has experience with it :)

Cheers Daz, will run through it all in the next few days (not least so I can advise master feekles at the weekend). Will let you know how it turns out...

And if you wanna talk linux then talk to the nerd himself, I've not bothered learning any of it yet :p

Daz

11-04-2007, 20:06

Garp

11-04-2007, 20:06

If you have trouble with the drivers, you could consider trying a linux box running MythTV. I believe you have a man in the house who has experience with it :)

Aye.. I'm quite familiar with it. Was trying to avoid using it if I could more so that I wouldn't be the only person in the house capable of fixing it if things go wrong. Also I've never setup a TV Output under Linux. Whilst I'm sure I'm capable of working it out it is something I've avoided!

Dymetrie

11-04-2007, 20:17

Fwiw there are other media center type apps you can bang on XP if you find MCE a bit bloaty or buggy. Correct me if I'm wrong but all you're really looking for is a big, TV friendly front end for avi files? No fancy TV capture/post processing/encoding malarky?

Unless MCE keeps coming up with niggles (tbh then the error messages are literally "I can't do what I just did... oh... d'oh") after a reinstall or I can't get the s-video output to work then I'm happy with it and will keep it running.

Aye.. I'm quite familiar with it. Was trying to avoid using it if I could more so that I wouldn't be the only person in the house capable of fixing it if things go wrong. Also I've never setup a TV Output under Linux. Whilst I'm sure I'm capable of working it out it is something I've avoided!

Talk to him daz, teach him the ways of the force so he can be a jedi, like his Father before him! :p

Daz

11-04-2007, 20:17

Garp

11-04-2007, 20:19

If I'm right about the requirements then you're not tied to only MCE is all I'm getting at :)

GB-PVR (http://www.gbpvr.com/) is one I remember. Think PowerDVD have a similar app (though you need to 'acquire' that). If memory serves I believe Leperous also uses an app which isnt MCE.

Nvidia also have one.. which I've got a licence for and is running on my box. Great as a DVD player, not that good as an MCE style thing though, seems to struggle with streaming AVIs off a mapped drive to my linux box, as in it doesn't even seem to want to see the AVIs as movie files!

Dymetrie

11-04-2007, 20:21

Nvidia also have one.. which I've got a licence for and is running on my box. Great as a DVD player, not that good as an MCE style thing though, seems to struggle with streaming AVIs off a mapped drive to my linux box, as in it doesn't even seem to want to see the AVIs as movie files!

To be fair then I had to install K-Lite on the XP install to get MCE to recognise most of the files on Phoenix... But I kinda expected that...

Oh and the streaming works really well...

Daz

11-04-2007, 20:22

http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Think that's Win32 as well.

I just installed ffdshow on my server box which has covered all my codec requirements for TVersity and streaming to the 360.

Garp

11-04-2007, 20:56

To be fair then I had to install K-Lite on the XP install to get MCE to recognise most of the files on Phoenix... But I kinda expected that...

I've got the codecs, its just the software that doesn't cope, though its meant as an additional bonus to go with the decoder which is designed to run in WMP. Its DVD decoder is excellent though, as its designed to use the GPU for MPEG2 decoding.

Mark

11-04-2007, 22:30

Yes please. Not sure what you mean about the VGA though, has the card been butchered or is it just a header?
Header -> ribbon cable -> VGA socket.

I don't have the cable (was taken off when the system was built and last I heard it was somewhere in Scotland).

PS - Had a play with various other media portals myself and discovered that most of them look very similar and most of them have similar limitations.

8 I3ALL

11-04-2007, 23:24

I know F**K all about media centers but after watching this video if i ever set one up i will be doing it with LinuxMCE

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&hl=en

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 00:48

I'm only half way through but just paused it to say jesus how have i never heard about this 8|3all! You're not wrong about it being great, i'm going to try this out asap...

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 00:59

Ah i've never heard of it because its only just been released, 1.0 was released on the 15th March!

Mark

12-04-2007, 01:03

Love the 'it looks like you're fighting a penguin' message. ;D

Now, if only it'd work with Gentoo. Oh, and work with my Nebula card...

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 01:10

I love the fact it works with ubuntu too, people like me need linux for idiots :) Not totally sure how it installs but as i see it, it doesn't take over the system either, so that means i can leave ubuntu on there making it a totaly viable PC too, no? That would be great too.

8 I3ALL

12-04-2007, 01:10

I'm only half way through but just paused it to say jesus how have i never heard about this 8|3all! You're not wrong about it being great, i'm going to try this out asap...

So you like the look of it then!!! :p

It just seems like such a clever piece of software ..it pulls all the media together from round the house ...it even bluetooths ya fecking mobile phone so it works as a remote !!!

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 01:24

Windows mobile or symbian60 (3rd i guess) only though, doesn't matter i've got nokia 360 :cool: Yeah i'm gonna try that sometime soon :) Got a p4 with an old ati (unfortunately for linux) card think 9800 aiw (so its more than powerful enough). I've got a random connextant terrestrial tv card laying about thats good to test i guess...

Mark

12-04-2007, 01:27

Unfortunately? While the Radeon drivers are closed source/proprietary, I had no issues installing them, even on Gentoo.

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 02:21

Yeah i've not had problems so far with ubuntu, but i just hear linuxMCE (especially it seems) likes to work with nvidia cards 6xxxx or greater for all ui menu effects... ATI might prove more problematic

Garp

12-04-2007, 07:44

I know F**K all about media centers but after watching this video if i ever set one up i will be doing it with LinuxMCE

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&hl=en

Okay, bit strange there was 4 minutes of 'black' at the end, but anyway..

Looks good. Soon to be installed on my test box here and I / we'll see how it looks. If it really is that awesome then I'm not sure about Rich but I'd be extremely happy to have it running on the media box.

However, there is a bit of an element of bull about the video. It does give the impression it does all of that with ease; e.g. automatically detects bluetooth phones and does stuff with them. Since when has pairing not been a part of the bluetooth setup process? He's had to go to each room with a media box in and do the pairing trick. Bluetooth also doesn't have the range to control a centralised device from anywhere in the house, if you want that level of control you'd need a PC in each room.
To view media on each box in the house means you'll need to know how to setup Samba to do anonymous read-only sharing of folders, something that wasn't a straight forward "click-click-click" process last time I tried it. Okay its fairly easy to find a guide online to do so but it isn't as simple as it should be.
IP Cameras should be a doddle to setup.. as no local hardware is involved.
We'll see, I'll reserve a bit of judgment until its installed on my test box tonight.

Hopefully a better less biased version of the video will be produced next time (he's doing a Vista / LinuxMCE comparison in the next one)

edit: Wtf?! The server chopped half my reply off when I edited it. Gah!

My edit said: if you're setting up Ubuntu, I would strongly reccomend installing Automatix (http://www.getautomatix.com/) as the very first thing once its up and running. Automatix will handle video card driver installation and stuff like codecs and common programs that people want that aren't in the apt repository.

Daz

12-04-2007, 10:46

I'd seen various posts about LinuxMCE but wasn't expecting it so soon. Looks promising.

Mark

12-04-2007, 13:08

That video is incredibly biased. OK, it's a good thing that LinuxMCE can do all of those things, but 'out of box experience' is pushing it beyond breaking point.

It can't possibly know what make of TV/VCR/DVD/AV receiver you have. Unless it's going to send hundreds of IR codes, turning on the TV 'out of box' is not going to happen.
Likewise, it's not going to know which input on your TV is connected to the PC, which to the VCR, etc.
You can't pair Bluetooth devices without manual intervention. If you could, all manner of hackers would be stealing mobile phone data already (yes, I know in some cases it's possible).
You have to buy an IR blaster, and that mouse thing. Sure, they're almost certainly cheaper than a WinMCE license, but still.
As Garp says, you have to configure your network correctly for the media 'discovery' to work.
I'm not convinced of the argument behind overlaying everything. There's a time and a place of course.
Does all this mean WinMCE is better than LinuxMCE? Of course not, but it's still very fanboyish. As with the ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel fanboys, it seems that media systems have them too (Media Portal is another one that has this 'problem').

Daz

12-04-2007, 13:33

Oh yes indeed. I remember that troll on OcUK who used to trash any MCE thread on sight with his Mediaportal pimpage.

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 14:30

Has anyone used mediaportal? I was looking forward to it, and felt somewhat let down when i finally tried it, just didn't feel right, felt almost as clunky as the windows MCE to me, i've never sat right with Media centre software yet, everything fells either too slow clumsy or over the top... DVB viewer and VLC sat on a nice lean windows install does me for now! :D

With regard to automatix, i've heard mixed feelings about that, as in:

Its great because you don't have to think, install that and boom you've got a working linux box, mp3 dvd graphics etc.. all out the box, i love it for that.

But also, if it goes wrong (which i does sometimes) you don't know what its done, how to fix it, because you (well I) don't actually know *what* it was doing behind the scenes, in the long run its probably nice to learn to do these things yourself... Rather than run automatix then go crying to the linux forum only to be shot down asking for help.

Still thats what i use, if it goes wrong i just keep trying but it doesnt feel like a perfect solution...

Daz

12-04-2007, 14:33

I've *never* had a problem with Automatix. Use it once on a clean install then never really see it again, adept looks after the packages it installs.

LeperousDust

12-04-2007, 15:33

Actually i may be wrong, whats the rival one, is that the one with the problems? *unsure*

Garp

12-04-2007, 19:05

Balls.. LinuxMCE seems to be i386 only.. shame I installed AMD64 variant eh? Ahh well.. *starts i386 download*

Garp

14-04-2007, 10:45

Okay.. my thought so far.

WTF?!?!?!?!

Could they make this install ANY LESS user friendly?

Actually, they probably could, they'd expect us to manually edit text files.
I know I'm a bloke and by definition I don't read manuals, but I'd just like to point out that in my opinion if the common human is expected to use software, they shouldn't have to.

I'm going to have to go off and find instructions on setting this thing up because its confusing the hell out of me. I think, vaguely, that I've got the main PC setup okay, but its just shoved me through some long winded web interface to set things up on it from my main PC rather than it and I'm not certain in the slightest whether its worked. Was I supposed to add the DVD device in the devices setup? If so how was I supposed to do that when its not in the hardware list? Graphics card? Sound Card? etc. etc. etc.

Garp

05-05-2007, 12:00

Woo.. finally I've got the box working.

Windows +MCE was the easy bit. Graphics card to TV was a bugger. Works with one of my cables to an extent but was coming up very very washed out colours.

After lots of head banging and frustration I discovered online some people talking about a mod to the SCART adaptor:
http://motionride.esmartweb.com/S-VHS1.jpg

I cannibalised an old jack to jack audio cable, produced a relevant length piece of twisted copper wire and put it in place, and finally we have a full colour display on our TV downstairs, and its happy streaming video of shared drives on our other PCs :D

LeperousDust

23-05-2007, 11:53

Hey Garp, i've just remember about this little project whilst reading the XBMC thread, wondered how the media center software/OS is going, and what you've settled on? I want to get something set up and ready before i come back to uni next year so i can just plug and play and all be happy... LinuxMCE looks good (but overly complicated) if youre still using it how does it cope over time?

Garp

23-05-2007, 12:12

I can't stand LinuxMCE personally.. i've never got it to work happily on either our media box or my test box, just one headache after another. Windows Media Centre was a doddle to install and works fine, plays across the network happily, and all apart from a few quirks I've started fixing today; like you have to do a registry fix to get it to read the .mkv files which are becoming used more and more!