View Full Version : Is PC gaming really dead?
Admiral Huddy
12-04-2007, 15:07
As per title..
Just picked up this months PC gamer.. it's as thin as bog roll.
Apart from S.T.A.L.K.E.R. , Oblivion and COH, there's been nothing decent for months. Sure there are a few games on the way but so what.. a few.
I think even Microsoft are trying to tell us something... Halo 2 comes out on the 18th May but it will be a few years old by then and certainly last Gen :( in the meantime console owners will most likely be blasting their way round number 3.. Talking of number 3.. No COD3 - if that isn't proof enough that developers/publishers have had it with the platform :(
Even the two games 'm playing at the moment are riddled with bugs and I’ve had to stop playing SCDA. It has to be said, that "out of the box" gaming now sounds quite an attractive idea after all especially after forking out for new kit. It all seems to have gone downhill since HL2..
Despite the fact that those in the know are saying that this isn’t the case and that the PC and console market is not comparable, when it comes to cost to both developer and consumer.. it’s a no brainner.
What do think?
I think the argument that PC and console gaming markets aren't comparable stands up to a degree, but with this current gen and whatever next gen consoles, the lines between PC and console are blurring - they're all being treated as computers more and more.
Speaking from a personal point of view, yes PC gaming is dead for me. Gaming on the 360 is hassle free, stunning to behold now it runs at resolutions seen only before on PC, and ties into online services seamlessly. Any sort of installation/driver update/patching process however streamlined now just seems like hassle since I've had the 360.
Will PC gaming die? Simply because the technical innovations need to be made there for the next generation of consoles. The upshot is that I reckon the focus of PC games will shift to technology showcases - pushing the boundaries of what can be done on hardware, rather than focussing on the gaming or online experiences.
As long as they keep releasing Half-life 2 add-ons I won't give up on PC gaming. My three-year-old rig still plays them at full settings, it really is an amazing engine they use.
STALKER was the only thing I've been waiting for since FEAR, the latter of which ran like a dog anyway. Apart from HL: Episodes 2 and 3 I doubt I'll be getting anything else - the 360 has everything I'll need from now on.
That said, if they release any more decent point n click adventures I'll probably grab them.
If only. Well past their time though I guess, I genuinely don't believe they could top how they used to be (all the Lucas old stuff, Broken Sword etc). They had to make the gameplay excellent because they were against the wall graphics wise.
That said, old school point and click would be ideal for the Live Arcade/Wii Shop/Playstation store, if there was a mouse peripheral.
Admittedly I have no interest in PC gaming anymore. I'm already considering when it comes to my next PC upgrade that I'll most likely switch to a basic laptop because right now all I'm using my PC for is music, the internet, photoshop and some web design, all of which I'd love to be able to do on the move.
I'm not sure if PC gaming will die though, this debate always appears when a new load of consoles appear so it makes me wary. Then again like Daz said the lines are blurring so maybe this time round it's true.
One of the things thats starting to make me wince a tad is the price of upgrading a pc. Its certainly gone up, especially the bespoke enthusiast market. Around Nov 2005 I went top of the range with a Socket 939 opteron, 2gig of ram, x1900xtx and 2*300gb hdds. That setup must of been getting near 1200 ish.
Now its worth bugger all. Most of the time i've been watching films. The games that have come out haven't been drawing me that much. I think I am in the middle of a non-gaming time. Really I need an injection of a good online fps shooter ala a new UT. For me nothing gets close to a game of high speed UT with pro players :D
Recent games have been disappointing, for instance C&C3 has some nice effects.... but it literally feels like a patched version of generals with some engine tweaks.
HL2 is taking faaaar too long with its episodes, they really are crawling now. I am a confessed fps junkie. What would actually seriously make me consider ditching the pc would be if ut came to the xbox with a keyboard / mouse add-on. Surely thats an area of the market they have missed so far......
Then strategy games would be good on them, and even fps games.
So in summary none of the games currently out even make me want to consider upgrading my rig. When I do it will be another £1200 bill for a machine that I mostly watch films on.... that will be hard to swallow. UT will make me upgrade really
HL2 is taking faaaar too long with its episodes, they really are crawling now. I am a confessed fps junkie. What would actually seriously make me consider ditching the pc would be if ut came to the xbox with a keyboard / mouse add-on. Surely thats an area of the market they have missed so far......
It's a perception thing. MS marketing are arguing that the 360 is a games centric console, and that the PS3 is trying to be a PC too much. A keyboard and mouse combo doesn't fit with that image. You can already plug in any USB keyboard to the 360, but it's not a well advertised fact, and it only work on the dashboard - any input from it simply isnt passed to running games.
Vaultingslinky
12-04-2007, 16:09
Maybe within the next generation or two of consoles, where we start seeing more media functionality, web browsers and workable keyboard/mouse combos for use in the games then I think consoles will start to overtake PC gaming especially if there is more oppotunity for a mod community ala how Counterstrike came into being.
But as it stands, for FPS RTS and MMO type games with the all the mods etc, PCs win hands down.
All the 'big' development goes into consoles though, so as far as blockbuster titles go for PCs, its either going to be cross platform or console exclusive imo.
A keyboard and mouse combo doesn't fit with that image. You can already plug in any USB keyboard to the 360, but it's not a well advertised fact, and it only work on the dashboard - any input from it simply isnt passed to running games.
Imo it would make things unbalanced. As it stands, I don't think any accessory for the 360 gives anyone an advantage within a game. Allowing players to use either a keyboard/mouse or a controller in an FPS game for the 360 would do that if you ask me.
But as it stands, for FPS RTS and MMO type games with the all the mods etc, PCs win hands down.
While that may be true, the market is unfortunately diminishing - the mass market play their games in their living rooms, on their TV's, with their consoles. And with a level playing field like standard controllers, the argument for keyboards and mice in games doesn't really matter so much.
[edit]What Haly said :p
Stan_Lite
12-04-2007, 16:26
I hope not.
I prefer to play FPS games and they are much better on the PC as far as controls etc go (or maybe it's just that I'm crap with the console controllers :embarassed: ).
Having come late to the gaming scene, I have a great many great games to catch up on and hopefully many more in the future.
If consoles evolve into keyboard and mouse operation, I will be quite happy with that - it's certainly much cheaper to buy a console than it is to buy a good quality gaming PC - hell, I paid (considerably) more for my current graphics card than it costs to buy a 360 Premium with two games, never mind the rest of the system.
Stan :)
Admiral Huddy
12-04-2007, 16:34
While that may be true, the market is unfortunately diminishing - the mass market play their games in their living rooms, on their TV's, with their consoles. And with a level playing field like standard controllers, the argument for keyboards and mice in games doesn't really matter so much.
[edit]What Haly said :p
This is so true.. As Daz has already said and admits that OOTB gaming is simply much easier for the consumer. For the developers, having a single configuration must be much simplier and cost productive than a PC. At the end of the day, it does come down to mass market and cost. The cost of producing a PC game must be a lot more than a console just because of it's infinate possible configurations. That said, I read somewhere that the irony is that the PC has become a console development tool :D
Matblack
12-04-2007, 16:35
PCs are dying but I don't think they will ever disappear from the gaming market, 2 years ago I would have said long live the PC but now I am happy with my 360 and Wii, keeping the PC up to date is now too expensive a proposition and I can't justify it. The PC is a tool for downloading and watching movies etc. I can't see the console ever taking over that but there will need to be a MASSIVE breakthrough in PC technology for me to buy back into PCs, it will be interesting to see how this effects the processor market in years to come, we are already seeing a move towards lower power consumption will this take over from raw power?
MB
When you say buy back into PC's, I presume you mean from a gaming point of view MB?
Vaultingslinky
12-04-2007, 16:45
While that may be true, the market is unfortunately diminishing - the mass market play their games in their living rooms, on their TV's, with their consoles. And with a level playing field like standard controllers, the argument for keyboards and mice in games doesn't really matter so much.
[edit]What Haly said :p
What I was trying to say though, that mice and keyboards may become standard pepherials in later console generations though, so there will be a level playing field.
From my point of view, as a student, I sold my PC and bought a 360 because I couldn't afford to buy into all the upgrades. However I really enjoyed online games such as counterstrike purely due to the control system and all the mods around. And so at some point in the future when I can afford to maintain a gaming PC I will, unless of course this kind of thing is made available to consoles as I am enjoying the overall console experience more than PC gaming at the moment due to its diversity!
I hope that makes some kind of sense, it does in my head!
Matblack
12-04-2007, 16:46
When you say buy back into PC's, I presume you mean from a gaming point of view MB?
Pretty much but from an upgrade POV too, once I have a C2D based system the PC will be able to sling video at 1080p which will keep us sorted for a few years to come. I certainly won't be upgrading to bleading edge technology again, if I do upgrade it will be for more storage space than anything else.
MB
What I was trying to say though, that mice and keyboards may become standard pepherials in later console generations though, so there will be a level playing field.
With two different input devices (ie, keyboard and mouse combo and controller) then nobody can reasonably argue level playing field. You only get that if everyone is using the same input device.
Though of course, the counter argument to that is the wireless steering wheel for driving games. Though it of course adds to the simulation aspect, and to do that in an fps would require a gun and a holodeck :D
Might be drifting off topic, sorry Admiral :)
semi-pro waster
12-04-2007, 17:36
I haven't been gaming much on my PC recently as I can't afford to buy new games (and to a certain extent the technology to run them) but I don't think it will disappear entirely, the PC still does certain genres better but I do think it will diminish further in certain areas purely because of the massive market that consoles have never mind the fact you just play without any patching etc. It is comparatively easy to program a game on a console and get it looking good where you have an unchanging set of parameters to work within rather than the PC where there is an almost unlimited amount of hardware combinations.
I'm not too worried about PC gaming being dead, this is an argument that has been around since I bought my first PC and I expect it will probably continue for many years to come. Markets change and adapt but PC gaming won't die entirely, it might move in different directions (maybe more fan produced games or episodic games?) but there is too large a base and too much interest for it to disappear totally.
From a personal point of view I'd be disappointed if I thought that FPS games were going to be primarily on consoles from now on because I detest using a joypad to control them, maybe I'm a malcoordinated fool (quite likely) but nothing seems as 'natural' as using a keyboard and mouse. :)
//edit Haha just noticed the correction to my lack of coordination. :D
Stan_Lite
12-04-2007, 18:21
With two different input devices (ie, keyboard and mouse combo and controller) then nobody can reasonably argue level playing field. You only get that if everyone is using the same input device.
The same can, of course, be said for PC gaming. Programmable joypads have been available for PCs for many years (I have one with about 3 inches of dust on it), did these cause a major unleveling of the playing field?
Some of us prefer the keyboard/mouse combo and some prefer the joypad option. At the end of the day, if you can afford £300 for a console and £20-£50 for each game, you can afford £20 for a keyboard and a mouse if you feel it gives you an advantage.
Stan :)
Vaultingslinky
13-04-2007, 01:09
With two different input devices (ie, keyboard and mouse combo and controller) then nobody can reasonably argue level playing field. You only get that if everyone is using the same input device.
By standard, I guess I meant included with the console (which is of course very unlikely to happen...but hypothetically ;)), you have a level playing field, you can either gimp yourself with the joypad or use keyboard/mouse.
I do understand the whole unlevel playing field arguement, but as stan said, a keyboard and mouse are inexpensive, and I would bet on most 360 owners already having a keyboard and mouse they could use (well maybe not a usb keyboard, but I for one after mothballing my gaming PC still have a gaming mouse lieing about somewhere). I would love it if I could play vegas or something with a keyboard/mouse combo (only of course if every other player could, not through some 3rd party device)
Either way this is ever so slightly OT so ill pipe down now :D
The same can, of course, be said for PC gaming. Programmable joypads have been available for PCs for many years (I have one with about 3 inches of dust on it), did these cause a major unleveling of the playing field?
Maybe, maybe not, but I'm not arguing for a level field on PC's. By it's very nature the PC is 'unlevel, just from the infinite number of different hardware combinations you can have - it's part of the deal.
Some of us prefer the keyboard/mouse combo and some prefer the joypad option. At the end of the day, if you can afford £300 for a console and £20-£50 for each game, you can afford £20 for a keyboard and a mouse if you feel it gives you an advantage.
But is that in the best interests of the gaming masses on the particular platform?
Gaming arguments aside - my real problem with adding a 'proper' keyboard and mouse combination - or making support official - is the potential future direction of the console. Put Office available on the marketplace and what have you got? A proprietary PC (hello Apple? though at least this one can play games ;)). Even if we ignore the politics of that, the net result could be a big hit on the consumer PC market.
2 reasons why that's unlikely to happen though are, as I said before, they're pimping the image of the 360 as a games centric console, not a computer in it's own right (and I support that attitude, so part of that is living without a proper keyboard and mouse combo) - and secondly if Microsoft has a console that could replace it's own PC operating system then it will ultimately hurt them - their software business model is based on a 3 year refresh cycle, something that just isn't conceivable in the console market.
Are we off topic now or not? I'm not sure anymore :D
and ties into online services seamlessly.
Speaking as a non-gamer, I think this is the real key. It's the one thing that has been a major difference between PC and console gaming.
MS have lead the market there I'll be the first to admit. It's so refreshing to have a single service/interface to manage the online side of gaming, rather than many different things on the PC (Steam/Gamespy etc, Teamspeak/Ventrilo etc etc).
Daz has pretty much said what I was going to say, but I'd also like to throw in that using a keyboard and mouse while lazing about on the sofa would be bloody awkward compared to a controller :p
And for the most part I like to be relaxing while playing on a console not sitting up straight with a flat surface to put a mouse on.
I do love strategy games and so far thats the only thing I really miss from PC gaming. My PC is currently sat next to me turned off because the northbridge fan died and I cba replacing it. I have CNC3 and I do want to play it. I love the 360 for reasons mentioned. Hassle free gaming. Put game in, play. I can't say I've had any issue playing any FPS game on it. I can still pull of headshots with GRAW. I think the PC does have a future. Theres Enemy Territory: Quake Wars coming out some day and that looks great. Hopefully it should rejuvinate the quake community. Crysis looks stunning with brilliant physics. However, neither game makes me want to rush out and spend £600 to upgrade my PC to run them.
Admiral Huddy
13-04-2007, 11:56
No matter how hard I try, i can't get used to using a controller for FPS games.. It doesn't seem to have the speed and accuracy of a mouse and keyboard.
There are certain genres of games which will never die on the PC platform, things such as the serious simulations like Flight Sim and rFactor which have a huge following and have an enormous number of mods and add-ons for them. I don't believe it's possible to tweak console games like that.
http://www.theregister.com/2007/04/24/pc_game_sales_increase_48_percent/
Relevant article, quoting some facts and figures. Interesting comment:
The result of years of decline have hurt the variety, not the quality of PC games. Developers are sticking to what they know will sell. A once flourishing smörgåsbord of game variety has turned to a trickle of first-person shooters, sims and the latest flight of fancy (thanks largely to Blizzard's success) - massive multiplayer online RPGs.
Quality of the technology? Fair enough. Quality of the game play? Hmm.
Well, I just started playing (again) a game I used to be fanatical about - Jumpgate.
It's really the only true online game I've ever played. The only problem with it is that after playing Jumpgate, there's really not anything bigger/badder/better to go on to. Anything else is a big letdown due to the total immersion in the game.
Everything else seems so 2 dimensional in comparison. Yes, it has dated graphics and there's hardly anyone ever on the server anymore, but it's still so much of a player involved game that nothing else has ever come close to.
Oh, and as for trying to do something like Jumpgate on an XBOX? Will never happen. WAY too much for the controller to handle (a Saitek X-45 can't manage ALL of the controls) and the multiple page web content would be impossible on a game console. I mean, when I'm playing I've got at least 5 different tabs open on FF, generally on another computer so I don't have to Alt-Tab out to view them. I just don't think that level of game play is possible with a console. Plus the player-instituted graphics changes like my personal HUD couldn't be done on a console.
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