Xbox 360 help please

[Davey_Pitch]

My TV is no longer displaying a picture for the Xbox 360 :( It started going funny during a GH2 game and though switching the TV on and off again fixed it, it's now got to the point where it's completely blank, bar a "not supported" message in the top corner of the TV. I've plugged my Scart lead back in but I've still got the same problem, though I'm wondering whether it's still trying to output 1080i through the Scart (I don't think it does mind). Can someone tell me the keypresses needed from the Xbox menu to get to the console settings and change the resolution to the lowest available? If I can do that then it may go some way to telling me if the problem is with the Xbox or not. If it fails I'll move the Xbox to another TV and try there (yes I know I could do that first, but it's wired in nicely so I'd rather not if I can help it).

[leowyatt]

you on msn?

[Haly]

3 to the right , A, A, A, and then it was 7 up for me then A to change to 640x480.

[leowyatt]

Doesn't seem to like it, we even tried resetting the xbox to default views. I think he's going to try it on the SDTV in the lounge but it's no looking good :(

[Haly]

:( Not good :(

[NokkonWud]

Try a different cable, it's very possible it's that that has gone.

[Daz]

3 elements: TV -> Cable -> 360

Trying another TV will eliminate that, trying another cable will do the other (note here - if you're going back to SDTV, be sure to switch the selector on top, else it will fail, 'cus there'll be no output down the composite cable. We'll deal with the third one when we come to it :/

[Davey_Pitch]

Tried on another TV, and via scart and composite, and no joy whatsoever :( It's definitely dead. I was kinda expecting it at some point considering most people here have had their Xbox less time than me but have already had one die on them, but it's the first time in my life I've had a console fail on me, so I'm not too happy.

At least I found a company who will fix it for £55 inc shipping if I can't swing a free repair/replacement from either Gameplay or MS. Gameplay had better be ready for me, I'll be ringing them fully armed with my Sale of Goods Act info by my side :D

All I need now is to figure out what else to play :/

[Haly]

Go go Sale of Goods Act :D

You must be feeling so lost without it though! I know I would :(

[Davey_Pitch]

Aye, just as I was getting back into Guitar Hero as well, and I could feel improvements in my playing so I was planning a proper attack on the song that has me stumped. Oh well, hopefully this time next week it'll all be sorted.

[NokkonWud]

Are you sure it's not the cable? The Component/Composite/Scart are all on the same lead, so it it's at the consoles AV output section it could be that part that's knackered.

Have you tried a VGA cable?
Have you tried booting it without the HDD in?

Short of that it looks like it's the console, if it's not outputting correctly you should still have red-lights of some form though.

[Davey_Pitch]

I have two seperate leads, a Scart and a Component lead, both the official ones, neither work :/

[Desmo]

Not sure if you did this last night, but to reset the video settings, as the Xbox starts up press and hold Y and then pull the right trigger.

[Davey_Pitch]

Not sure if you did this last night, but to reset the video settings, as the Xbox starts up press and hold Y and then pull the right trigger.
Yup, tried and failed. I'm pretty sure it's the AV output on the 360 that's gone as I'm not getting any sound any more. I'm still slightly concerned by the lack of red lights (it would almost be reassuring to get them) as it makes me wonder if anything else is wrong.

[Davey_Pitch]

Rang up Gameplay, and as expected I got fobbed up with the standard "your console is over a year old, please contact MS" line. I argued the point of the SoGA with him but it seems he has a different interpretation of it than I do. So I figure the best thing to do is to email them, as I can make my point so much better that way.....


Hi,

I just spoke to one of your Customer Service agents on the phone regarding my now faulty Xbox 360. He told me that as I've had my 360 for over a year (it was a release day pre-order, order number XXXX) that I would have to contact Microsoft as you only cover the consumer for the year warranty that Microsoft also offer. However, I believe this stance to be incorrect.

As I'm sure you are aware, the Sales of Goods Act 1984 states that my contract is with the supplier, not the manufacturer, so I'm perfectly within my legal rights to contact you regarding a repair or replacement, not Microsoft. I understand that the onus is on me, the consumer, to prove that the console is inherently faulty, and that the fault hasn't occured through some kind of misuse on my part. I'm pretty sure that considering the extremely high number of faulty Xbox's that have been reported in the national press and various other media, proving that the Xbox 360's have an inherent design flaw won't be a problem, especially considering the excellent condition my Xbox is still in (ie, no impact damage or stains that would indicate misuse).

I do know that goods are only expected to last a certain amount of time, and that you may argue that a console may only be reasonably expected to last 18 months or so. However, considering I've still got a working Mega Drive, Playstation 2, Gamecube, and Xbox, I think I could also reasonably argue that a brand new console costing near £400 could be reasonably expected to last me longer than 20 months or so, considering the age of my other consoles.

I'm hoping this situation can be resolved quickly and easily. If you require any more information please let me know.

Regards,

Dave

I'm going to contact MS first to see what they have to say about it. If they (for some reason) offer me a free repair/replacement obviously there's no need to send it, but I'm not going to let Gameplay squirm out of their legal responsibilities if I can help it :D

[Daz]

I'd be going for Gameplay first - if they relent then you'll have a quicker turn around!

[Feek]

Are you OK for game saves and achievements and stuff if it has to be replaced?

[Daz]

Unlocked achievements are kept on your Live profile sync'd on the web, save games are fine so long as the hard drive is.

The only practical drawback to having a new console is DRM on some of the live content - particularly arcade games. Any purchased content gets 2 licenses - 1 to the live account, and 1 to the console. A replacement console removes the latter, so in order to play those games/that content, the account that bought it must be signed into Live. They are allegedly looking into ways round this now, though I wouldn't expect a fix for quite some time, if at all.

[Davey_Pitch]

Considering I'm the only person who bought any games hopefully I'll be fine with the arcade games, but to be honest it's more my 300 hours of Oblivion, 60 hours of Dead Rising etc that I'd hate to lose. Arcade games can be replaced, but I'll be damned if I'm playing the games again to get all my save games back.

Oh, sent the email to Gameplay. May ring back up when I get home and ask to be put through to a supervisor right away instead of being fobbed off by a first line support guy.

[Haly]

Good luck with it :)

[Davey_Pitch]

Just as a final confirmation to myself I tried the 360 again today (on the off chance it was too hot), with and without the HDD, and still no joy. I can still do things with the Xbox via the joypad (open and close the tray, shut the console down), I just can't see or hear anything. Ho hum.

[Desmo]

Some interesting reading here Davey... http://forums.xbox.com/1/13392007/ShowPost.aspx#13392007

[Daz]

Those guys still have sound, but that's something freaky there :/

[Davey_Pitch]

Aye, I reckon my problem is related to that, most definitely.

Just been on to Gameplay again via their online chat, and their stance is very very concrete - "we only expect things to last as long as the warranty and after that we won't do a thing". That's despite the fact that I repeatedly pointed out that the Xbox doesn't conform to contract and therefore it's their responsibility to deal with. I think before they'll accept anything I need to get some kind of proof (possibly from an engineer) that the problem I've got is an inherent one and then they have no comeback against that whatsoever.

[Davey_Pitch]

This was the chat, for anyone interested. An objective view would be appreciated as I was not a happy bunny during this conversation....


Chojin: hi there how can i help?
David: Hi. I sent an email earlier today regarding my broken Xbox, and I was wondering how long I'd have to wait for a response?
Chojin: can i ask what the fault was with the item?
David: Sure. There's no picture or sound when I switch the Xbox on, though the joypad still works. I've tried two different cables on two different TV's so I'm sure the problem is with the 360.
David: The main issue is that my 360 is a release day console and when I spoke to an advisor over the phone earlier I was told I would have to speak to Microsoft
Chojin: as a release day console the unit is out of warrantee
David: Yes I know, however the Sale of Goods Act still protects me in these circumstances
Chojin: has the console only just developed this fault?
David: Yes, last night while playing Guitar Hero 2
Chojin: unfortunately not, the sales of goods act states the console must be free from defect at the time of sale, the duration the console is expected to remain free from defects is one year as defined by Microsoft and that is covered by both ours and Microsofts warrantees. as it is past that duration unfortunately the console is no longer covered
David: Where is it defined by Microsoft? Considering I've still got a working Mega Drive I'm pretty sure I can argue that a near £400 console is expected to last a lot longer than 18 months
David: Also, considering the extremely high number of faulty Xbox 360's I doubt I'd have any trouble proving that the console is inherently faulty
Chojin: unless there is a product recall by Microsoft witch would include production dates and console serial numbers, we have to look at each individual case by itself. as you have had the console from launch without fault past the warrantee period we will not be able to offer a replacement unit. Microsoft do offer a repair option for out of warrantee consoles and i can give you a number for them if you would like
David: I'm not after a replacement unit, a repair will do fine. And the law states that my contract is with you, not Microsoft
David: I can find you the relevant bits of the SoGA if you like
Chojin: i have the link for the sales of goods act on my screen
David: Then you'll see it for yourself. I feel I can prove that the console should be expected to last longer than the 18 or so months that I've owned it. With that in mind, as there is no damage to the console that has been brought on by my own misuse, it's fair to assume the console in inherently faulty and has just chosen this particular point in time to show those faults
David: I'm sure as a gamer yourself you'd be extremely unhappy if a £400 console you bought died in less than 2 years, considering how long they're supposed to last
Chojin: unfortunately the console is expected to rune free from defect for 1 year and this is why it does have the warrantee. after that it is no longer covered.
David: Where does it say that? I've got all the literature from when I bought my 360 and I know it doesn't say it anywhere in there
David: And irrespective of that, if the product is inherently faulty then it doesn't conform to contract
David: If the product doesn't conform to contract then it's the responsibility of the seller to sort it out, not the manufacturer
Chojin: only at time of sale. there is also the reverse burden of proof acording to the sals of goods act that means that you would have to prove that the product was faulty when you received it. since you have had use of the console past the warranty period and there have been no product recalls by date or serial number by the manufacture during this time then we cant offer any out of warrantee services. the only option i can offer you would be to contact Microsoft direct for an out of warrantee repair.
David: Not only at the time of sale. The SoGA can cover the consumer for up to 6 years after the time of purchase. And of course, inherent faults won't always show up right away, some will take a very long time to show themselves. This is where the SoGA comes in to protect the consumer with our statutory rights. I believe I can prove the console was inherently faulty, which means the goods do not conform to contract, which means it is the legal obligation of Gameplay to sort it out
Chojin: no that is the time you have to make a claim
Chojin: if you look up the quick help guide for the sales of goods act on the dti's website this is covered
David: I have it in front of me. I have to show that the console failed inside what is deemed to be a reasonable amount of time. I'm pretty sure a £400 console could reasonably be expected to last a lot longer than 18 months
David: I'm also very sure a court would agree with me
David: I'm also sure that the number of people with the same problem on this thread would prove an inherent fault and not something that's just happened at random - http://forums.xbox.com/1/13392007/ShowPost.aspx#13392007
Chojin: the subjectivity of how long the console would be expected to last form a retail or consumers point of view i wont go in to. the console is suplied witha one year warrantee by the manufacturer and once it is past that there is no requirement for us to take action. unfortunately my above comments still stand that i can give you the number for microsoft but i cannot offer any further help.
David: No requirement for you to take action? You mean besides your legal obligations for a good that doesn't conform to contract?
Chojin: unfortunately i as i have stated above as you have had the product beyond the warrantee period offered by Microsoft and us there is no further help i can offer
Chojin: unfortunately this service is no closing as the office closed at 6pm, if you would like my name for reference it is richard
Chojin: *now
David: We're going around in circles here. I was honestly hoping for more from a company that has been nothing but fantastic to me over the past 3-4 years. If you're going to continue to ignore your legal obligations then all I can do is contact Trading Standards and Watchdog and see what they have to say
David: Can you please ask one of your supervisors to read and respond to my email as soon as they can please. I understand you have to go by what you're told but I believe in this case what you've been told is wrong.
Chojin: there is already a page on watchdogs website
Chojin: but i will forward this chat and your email on for you
David: Thanks, I appreciate that
Chojin: ok, i am sorry that i cant help further
David: It's ok, I understand the position you're in. Hopefully I can get the whole thing resolved quickly.
Chojin: bye for now
David: bye

[Haly]

Sounds reasonable to me, you didn't lose your temper or anything. :)
Hope you manage to get it sorted :/

[Davey_Pitch]

Score one for the guy who knows his rights! :D


HI,

Thanks for your email.

I am sorry to hear that you have been experiencing difficulties with your
Xbox 360 Console. This console is guaranteed against manufacturing faults
with us for a period of 12 months from the date of purchase, as long as it
is presented with a valid proof of purchase. The issue in this instance is
the question of what is "reasonably durable" and subsequently we take
guidance from Microsoft on this matter. The advice received from Microsoft
is that after a 12 month period has lapsed from the date of purchase we
should refer customers to them directly. They advise that they take each
case on its own merits.

That said, we do not want any of our customers to feel undervalued and I am
happy to try and resolve this matter for you.

If you contact TCR, they offer a repair service, if you send the unit to
them for repair I am more than happy to reimburse you for any charge made by
TCR for repair.

Please visit http://www.totalconsolerepair.co.uk to arrange a repair.

Once a repair has been carried out please forward any repair receipts to me
and I will be more than happy to reimburse the costs.

I hope this is a satisfactory resolution to this problem.

Thanks

Samm

Aftersales Manager


I'll be contacting them on my break to arrange for my 360 to be fixed :)

[Daz]

Nicely done Davey :)

[Haly]

Excellent :D

[Nismo]

Are 'totalconsolerepair' an authorised repair centre then? Never heard of them.

Just seems odd for a big company to be telling you to send it off to a 3rd party.

[NokkonWud]

Well done davey.

I believe my Dreamcast in 2001 went to TCR and they did a great job of it.

[Daz]

Random thought off the top of my head - there's no risk of any changes to your console flagging you for banning from Live, is there?

[Davey_Pitch]

Random thought off the top of my head - there's no risk of any changes to your console flagging you for banning from Live, is there?
I would hope not, I'm sure they've dealt with enough Xbox 360 repairs to know about the dangers regarding that and being able to work around it. When I call up to arrange collection though I will mention that to them.

[Daz]

In related news:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32111&

Yikes!

[leowyatt]

Can't seem to load that page from work but is that the Forza 2 issue with it bricking consoles?

[Feek]

Nope, it's saying that one company will no longer fix 360s with the three red light syndrome.

[Davey_Pitch]

A quick update to this. Due to my back I didn't get chance to send it back until Monday of this week. I rang them on Wednesday and they hadn't had chance to look at it yet. Just rang them again today, and they said that my console is beyond repair. Due to massive overheating problems my motherboard had become seriously damaged, so they're sending it back to me. Thankfully now it shows the 3 rings of doom, so at least I can get it fixed for free, but rest assured Gameplay will be getting a very pissed off email over this, if they've just swapped it like I asked I'd have had a replacement a week ago.

Grrr, Davey is not happy.

[Feek]

Why are they sending you back a broken unit, surely they should now be replacing with a newbie?

[Daz]

They're just a repair house, I guess it's not cost effective for the to hold spare, working units.

[Davey_Pitch]

Why are they sending you back a broken unit, surely they should now be replacing with a newbie?
It's not up to them, they're just a repair shop, it's not gone to Microsoft.

[Feek]

Gotcha

[Davey_Pitch]

Well Gameplay got back to me, they refuse to sort anything out that's over 1 year old. I could easily argue it with them, given Microsoft's own admission that there is an inherent fault with the console, but to be honest I think I'd rather go back to MS for this. They'll at least fix the problem permanantly, whereas if I got a replacement from Gameplay it would likely have the same problem and it may end up broken again in 6 months time. I'll hopefully have a temporary 360 tomorrow to keep me going until I get mine back from MS.

[Daz]

Harsh dude. But you're right, at least you now have a safety net. Turn around is a bit longer at the moment as they've obviously taken in more units since the announcement, but light at the end of the tunnel never the less.

[Davey_Pitch]

I think I'd be more pissed off if I hadn't discovered some excellent PC games lately to keep me going (Neverwinter Nights 2, Company of Heroes). If I wasn't playing PC games I think I'd have killed someone in Gameplay by now :D

[Daz]

Where's the 360 loaner coming from?

[Davey_Pitch]

Where's the 360 loaner coming from?
It's Colin's broken one. I'm going to try taking it back to Curries tomorrow with a copy of the Sale of Goods Act, Peter Moore's letter, and the article confirming the fault with the 360's. It's about 16 months old I think but hopefully armed with them I'll be able to argue a replacement for it there and then. Assuming I manage it, Colin has said I can hold on to it until I get mine back :)

[Haly]

That sucks :( At least you've got a temporary one for now, I wouldn't like to be anyone crossing you in Currys tomorrow :p

[Davey_Pitch]

F'ing get in!


Your Xbox Video Game system has been shipped! You can expect to receive it in 2-5 days. Thank you for your patience and get ready to get back into the action! Your shipping information is provided below for your reference:

I'm amazed at the turnaround time! Hopefully I'll have it back by the weekend as we've got an easy weekend planned to get ready for the cottage meet :)

[Daz]

Awesome dude, we'll have to partake in a celebratory game of something :D

[Davey_Pitch]

Absolutely. If I've got it back at the weekend expect to see me playing on Friday night, then still playing when you get up on Saturday. I've missed my baby, and all the sodding demos that have been released while I've been without it :D

[leowyatt]

Excellent news matey

[Feek]

Excellent stuff - What date did you send it off to them? It might give me an idea of how long it'll be before mine is fixed.

[Davey_Pitch]

Excellent stuff - What date did you send it off to them? It might give me an idea of how long it'll be before mine is fixed.
UPS picked it up from me last Monday, so 23rd July. Hopefully yours will be just as quick :)

[Feek]

Ooo, mine was the 24th *crosses everything crossable*

[Davey_Pitch]

I suspect mine was quick because apparantly it was very obvious the motherboard was shot, so it would have just been a straight swap out. Hopefully with yours they'll just swap out the DVD drive and you'll get it back soon :)

[Haly]

Excellent news :D
I should be about 1k away from you by then so it'll make for an interesting battle :D

[Davey_Pitch]

Excellent news :D
I should be about 1k away from you by then so it'll make for an interesting battle :D
I could be mean and tell you I want all my games back, but I won't do that just yet ;) :p

[Haly]

:shocked:
I should be done with at least one of them I think by the time of the cottage meet :)
Probably Madden 07 at my current rate.

[Davey_Pitch]

To get the full 990 on Madden (you won't be able to get the final 10) will take an awful long time simulating through the Superstar career mode, several times with several players in lots of positions. I was partway through doing it when my Xbox died.

[Haly]

That's where having sod all to do helps ;D
I'll see how it goes though, want to get it done fairly swiftly so you can get them back. :) But then again I've got a 1.5k point limit to deal with. Only got about 450pts to go this week!

[Feek]

Did I see someone has Gun, if so is it borrowable at some point please? :)

[Davey_Pitch]

Did I see someone has Gun, if so is it borrowable at some point please? :)
I've got Gun, but Jen has it at the moment. You can have it after her if I'm not using it then :)