New iPods

[leowyatt]

Not sure if anyone has seen but apple have released new colours for the shuffles, the nano has been redesigned to include video, the video ipod has been given a capacity boost and is thinner and they've announced an iPod Touch which seems to be like the iPhone but without the phone bits.

A kicker for all the 4Gb iPhone buyers is that it's not extinct and you can only buy the 8Gb version and that is now available for $399. Man you would be pissed that you bought the 4 for £500 :shocked: Bodes well for us UK customer though :D

[Garp]

I must admit they're looking pretty sweet, Apple are leading the market design wise for MP3 players it seems. if only Apple didn't insist on the DRM tie-in with iTunes I'd be interested in one whenever I end up replacing my Zen Vision:M

[Mark]

Same here. I believe they can play unprotected MP3 but I'd heard at least the older generations had trouble with VBR.

[Feek]

I like my iPod mini. It's not got great capacity but it suits me.

[LeperousDust]

I wish the touch was just a little bigger, 16g is great, but i've got very used to my 30g ipod and its size and i'm sure a lot of other people have too... I'd probably go for 20g or something, and it's not like we don't have the flash technology to produce it, apple just doesn't want to get ahead of the market and knows it can make this first and then have everyone upgrade next year...

[Belmit]

Whilst I found my mini ran out of battery very quickly, my nano is the exact opposite. Takes a hell of a lot of plays before the battery is even half diminished (obviously because one is a hard drive and t'other is solid state). Have to say I'm not so keen on the new nano though, much prefer the old shape and I'm glad I got this one before they changed it. I use it for running and the gym a lot so the more slender model fits on the arm better.

[Feek]

I only really use mine in the car so although I'd love to change it to the old style nano, there's no real need. I don't need colour and I never use it on the batteries so I have no idea what it's life is.

I've often thought about buying a full sized one but I don't see the point, I'd still just use it in the wagon.

[Jasper]

I want a touch (fnar!), but I keep telling myself to wait until the iPhone comes over here with 3G. If there isn't a 3G iPhone when I upgrade my contract, I'll get a touch

[LeperousDust]

3G iphone is a good bet when the iPhone comes over here... Read this if you haven't (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/09/05/where-the-hell-is-the-3g-iphone-for-europe-we-might-know/) I'm still not totally sold on the iphoone myself, looks good but i don't think its something i want. The touch as i said looks fantastic though shame is has such small storage... :(

[Jasper]

There are a couple of things missing from it, I think. The memory, for a start. The SDK is STILL not apparent, which is really annoying considering it would rock from a consumer's point of view. The Touch doesn't have a mail client, or an RSS reader. other than that, it's pretty cool - but I do like my internet anywhere - the only time I'm near a WiFi network, I have my laptop anyway!

[petemc]

and it's not like we don't have the flash technology to produce it, apple just doesn't want to get ahead of the market and knows it can make this first and then have everyone upgrade next year...

Maybe but I'm guessing its due to the price of flash memory. A 16gb CF card is £181. This time next year it will be cheaper and we'll have a 32gb iPod Touch.

[Mark]

$70 for 8GB, allegedly, though as capacity increases so does the cost.

[leowyatt]

if only Apple didn't insist on the DRM tie-in with iTunes I'd be interested in one

If I'm right you can get DRM free high-quality music with the iTunes plus account.

Having played with a iPhone over the last few days I'm even more torn than before. I'd love to upgrade my 4G iPod but I'll need a new phone at Christmas so would make sense to see what is going on with the iPhone.

I think the touch will make alot of people happy who wanted the iPhone just without the phone bit which it fits perfectly.

[iCraig]

I'll be getting two soon.

A touch for in the car and on the go, and a shuffle for when I'm on my bike.

The keynote mentioned that they've improved the battery life, I hope this means the batteries not only give more juice per cycle but they have a bit more cycles now than they used to. Regular use saw my Mini battery die after 14 months. :(

[LeperousDust]

Thats just battery technology really, Li-Ion batts die whether cycled or not. They have a shelf life themselve, so if that mini had been lying around before you bought it that counts towards its shelf life unfortunately... Check wikipedia :)

[Mark]

I have four year old Li-Ion batteries that still work fine (albeit with a little less life), and I have had others die in 18 months.

Mind you, the ones that lasted are removable, and I removed them, which will have reduced the cycle count.

[LeperousDust]

Yeah you get lucky with some, but they die due to ages not cycling. Removing them and not cycling them doesn't help. Best you can do is keep them around 40% charge and then keep them as cold as possible if you want to store them for later use. Freezer being impractical best bet :). For most people just use them whenever you want, cycling makes barely any difference, they'll die anyway so use them while you can!

[Garp]

If I'm right you can get DRM free high-quality music with the iTunes plus account.

That is still a "pay-per-track" service, and its still shoving money in the same pocket as produced the hardware. I like the flexibility of stuff like Napster. For about the same price of a CD a month I can download as many tracks from their library as I like, listen to them as many times as I like, transfer them to my Zen Vision:M and listen to them as many times as I like; and can continue to do so until I cancel my subscription to them. I get through a lot of music that way. It gives me a lot of freedom to legitimately try lots of artists on whims, listen to their entire albums, and know I'm not ripping them off. I've come across loads of artists I would never have come across that way. The Zen doesn't have any vendor tie-ins with its music capabilities, whilst I'll be the first to admit the iPod has a better UI and is generally slimmer, which allows the flexibility of such schemes.

[Feek]

What's the quality of stuff downloaded from Napster and can you burn to CD?

[Garp]

What's the quality of stuff downloaded from Napster and can you burn to CD?

192kbps, and yes you can burn to CD tracks you've purchased, not the stuff acquired under subscription

[Feek]

You can tell where my logic was going, can't you?

[LeperousDust]

If you have the subscription you need a Napster2go player i guess, and thats why you can't burn them. So yeah theyre still DRM laced unfortunately :(

DRM is hopefully on the out in the next few years though, i think the big players have finally got the idea...

[Garp]

You can tell where my logic was going, can't you?

Not at all. I'm paying for a service I want to use on my MP3 player. I know exactly what I'm buying and why, and I use it to a large extent (5+ albums a week). If I like the album I tend to go and buy it, because like with iTunes, Napster have put the silly "can only be downloaded x times" restriction in, and I'm not so confident about the artist margins on purchases (Weird Al Yankovich hates iTunes as he makes significantly less per album than physical media)
A good number of MP3 players support the technology Napster uses, and almost all new ones do (even my Creative Zen Touch did and that was a few years old). Apple are the only ones locking you in to their DRM software, and their software package (iTunes) to purchase it through. If I decide I don't like Napster, and like another system, I can go and use that too. I can even use iTunes if I wanted to, as its supported on my MP3 player. Apple are stifling innovation by locking down their players so much.

[MarcLister]

Loving the new iPod classics. Not too sure about the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPod Nano/Shuffle.

I think the grey/silver iPod Classic looks a bit "off". The black one looks much better! The first time I've admired the black iPod more than the white/silver one.

Hope to get one reasonably soon. Got a 4th gen 40Gb one here so whenever I gets me a new iPoddy it'll be a colour screen and quite a lot thinner than this one. Going to go for the 80Gb. I'll not fill that up. No chance of 160Gb at all.

[LeperousDust]

Apple are the only ones locking you in to their DRM software, and their software package (iTunes) to purchase it through. If I decide I don't like Napster, and like another system, I can go and use that too. I can even use iTunes if I wanted to, as its supported on my MP3 player. Apple are stifling innovation by locking down their players so much.

They don't totally lock you in though, you can rip CD's through iTunes and collect metadata and album art and then sync those with your iPod. Well i think you can, i've never tried, but if i can sync my less than legal mp3s i can't see why iTunes ripped mp3s would be any different?

[leowyatt]

Loving the new iPod classics. Not too sure about the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPod Nano/Shuffle.

I think the grey/silver iPod Classic looks a bit "off". The black one looks much better! The first time I've admired the black iPod more than the white/silver one.

Hope to get one reasonably soon. Got a 4th gen 40Gb one here so whenever I gets me a new iPoddy it'll be a colour screen and quite a lot thinner than this one. Going to go for the 80Gb. I'll not fill that up. No chance of 160Gb at all.

Having a 4g iPod I never actually realised how thin the video ones were but have to say I like the silver look it fits in with the new iMac design. Having played with Kitten's new nano the interface is nice the way it's setup and the screen is amazing.

I'm certainly doing my best to hold out for an iPhone (now more so after getting to play with one) as the interface is gorgeous and works so well. I think the touch will be very popular and 16Gb isn't bad at all as the videos don't take up too much space.

Personally I'd find that with 80Gb I'd never be able to decide what to listen to I'd always be changing my mind and with a smaller iPod it forces me to update and change my music more often :)

[LeperousDust]

Personally I'd find that with 80Gb I'd never be able to decide what to listen to I'd always be changing my mind and with a smaller iPod it forces me to update and change my music more often :)

Thats a good point,something i'd never really thought about. Makes sense though, but when you do want that "classic" track it's annoying NOT to have it on you there and then. Like when i take my iPod round to friends, we use them as portable dukeboxes and dock them, so not having the right music at the time is very annoying. But i know what you mean about not knowing what to choose :confused:

[leowyatt]

I understand what you mean about the classic track and it not being there. With the touch you'll be getting iTunes store right through your iPod so you could purchase the track. For some people that would be a good idea but I think another way apple will be going is getting the iPods especially the touch and future iterations to sync via wireless (in a similar vein to the searching functionality for leopard using .mac, though I've forgotten what they were calling the program it was in a keynote awhile back) That way it if you forgot the track you could get onto your mac, import it into iTunes and then sync your iPod over wireless.

[Joe 90]

far too many posts there to see if anyones already said...so

i hear apple have just ordered a shed load of 240gb disks from samsung so there will probably be a higher capacity range of these new models rather soon
imo apple are at it again - they release new models with crap capacity/feature, then a few months later have a 'stealth release' (read: no huge press conference and flashy new web site) where they start selling what should have been available to begin with...anyway... might be worth waiting.
this isn't perhaps the case for the whole range - maybe just like the ipod touch which is like 16gb which obviously isn't limited due to size/space within the device.

[leowyatt]

is that 240gb flash or 1.8mm disks? the touch won't get a drive in there, apart from the iPod Classic which might get a capacity bump but the rest of the iPods and iPhone are all going to be flash based.

[Joe 90]

didn't get told the details of the disk :(

hows the touch work for storage?

[leowyatt]

so it's definitely a disk?

Touch is flash based like the iPhone, the only iPod left with disk storage is the classic.

[Joe 90]

just checked up on it, its deffo HDD - classic ipod size... so thats gonna get a bit of a stroage boost soon :)

/hoped they'd be flash based cose i wouldn't mind a touch with a decent level of storage - although i guess that'd then make up charge an arm 'n' a leg for em. :(

[leowyatt]

well there is a flash shortage I believe at the moment and 16Gb is ok for mp3 storage. I'm sure there'll be a space bump soon, we'll have to see what September 18th brings ;)

[Joe 90]

I just heard commercially the biggest flash drive atm is 32gb

/fingers crossed.

[Mark]

V. expensive though. Last I heard the difference between 8GB and 16GB was $70. The cost/GB curve seems to be (very roughly) exponential, so you can probably guess what the difference between 16GB and 32GB will be. :)

[LeperousDust]

Suck on this! (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/11/bitmicro-crams-416gb-of-ssd-into-2-5-inch-ide-hdd/)

[divine]

I very very very nearly got my debit card out in the Apple shop yesterday afternoon and bought a new iPod. VERY Nearly.

[Mark]

Suck on this! (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/11/bitmicro-crams-416gb-of-ssd-into-2-5-inch-ide-hdd/)
What it doesn't tell you is you need to complete an alternative version of Operation Grand Slam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_%28film%29) to pay for it. ;D

[leowyatt]

Seems like the touch is now available (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/13/ipod-touch-showing-up-in-stores-gets-unboxed/) in stores, well Apple stores over there I'm not sure about here.

[Feek]

I don't need one, but it's all I can to stop myself buying a new nano. I'm actually quite liking them now more than I was when I originally saw them.

[leowyatt]

if you need persuading not to buy one, don't talk to Kitten ;)

[leowyatt]

Ever wondered what a touch would look like when it was shipped without the OS? Well here (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/14/ipod-touch-ships-without-os-x/) is the answer, like the article I'm loving the Cheerios icon ;)

[Daz]

Cool :D

[leowyatt]

Could you use bluetooth to stream music?

[Daz]

Of course. Either to an audio device (headset etc) or bluetooth can be used to piggyback a network on, so pretty much anything with that (bandwidth permitting).

[leowyatt]

well my thought was bluetooth speaker sets ;) perhaps Apply plan to launch that.

Bluetooth syncing too ;)

[Jasper]

if anything, it'd be wi-fi speakers using AirPort Extreme or something - I don't think bluetooth has the bandwidth capability to stream decent quality music - I only get about 50KBps across bluetooth, anyway.

[Mark]

Available no later than 28th here. Now I've looked, I prefer the old Nano tbh. Mind you, I preferred the old Shuffle too.

[leowyatt]

Honestly Mark I think you'd like the new nano, it's great.

I was never a big fan of the 1st gen shuffles but am loving the new shuffle colours, I'm sure Daz is devastated he can't get a hot pink one now :p

Cheers Sic wasn't sure of the bandwidth capacity of bluetooth. The touch has wi-fi built-in so the speakers (if they had wireless) would work straight out of the box.

[Mark]

if anything, it'd be wi-fi speakers using AirPort Extreme or something - I don't think bluetooth has the bandwidth capability to stream decent quality music - I only get about 50KBps across bluetooth, anyway.
Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR is more than capable. That's what the A2DP profile does (stereo audio over bluetooth). Bluetooth stereo headsets and speakers already exist. I already have this working with my M3100 so Apple can't claim to 'invent' it, though admittedly it's a little flaky at times.

[Jasper]

I still think (from a purely layman's point of view) that wi-fi would be better suited to home hi-fi systems - due to the range. now you're going to tell me that the range is better on bluetooth 2.0 aren't you!? :p

[Mark]

Honestly Mark I think you'd like the new nano, it's great.
I didn't like the silver one, but I've since seen the black one and that's OK. :)

[leowyatt]

erm are you sure you're talking about the nano and not the the ipod classic? The nanos are available in green, blue, red, etc they look great. If I was getting on I wouldn't go for the standard black or silver, I'd want a different colour.

[Mark]

Looks like I may have been going by the Classic. Dunno how I did that. However, the same comment does apply to the Nano. Don't like the silver, prefer the black over all the rest, though the other colours may work better in real life.

[leowyatt]

Well I can tell you the green looks fantastic in real life as would the other I'd expect.

I'm just hoping for an iPhone announcement on Tuesday, possibly 16Gb

[Daz]

I still think (from a purely layman's point of view) that wi-fi would be better suited to home hi-fi systems - due to the range. now you're going to tell me that the range is better on bluetooth 2.0 aren't you!? :p
Nope, but the iPod is a personal, portable music system, and that makes Bluetooth more relevant. You aren't going to take Wifi speakers on holiday and expect them to work :p Bluetooth gives you options on the move (headsets and speakers), and in the car.

At home from the Mac, then absolutely, Wifi's the way. In fact a contractor I work with does just that, he has those apple wifi audio things hooked up to speakers all over the house.

[leowyatt]

well 77 minutes and counting :shocked:

[leowyatt]

Well it seems the iPhone is coming to O2 on Nov 9th for £269. Damit I don't want to change carriers

[petemc]

Well it seems the iPhone is coming to O2 on Nov 9th for £269. Damit I don't want to change carriers

I just did some maths. £269 for the iPhone. £35 / month for 18 months with o2. Thats £899 just for the contract and phone! Personally I'm very very interested in this new £35 / month unlimited data plan o2 have made for it. I pay £35 / month and I would love unlimited gprs data.

http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/iphone

[Daz]

No 3G then?

[leowyatt]

nope no 3G. Unlimited means 1400 web pages a day, after that you break the contract (unlimited isn't unlimited)

7500 free wifi spots appearing in lots of places, infact they may already be there. Just found out our local has it ;D

[petemc]

No. It kills battery life apparently, so they left it out. Free gprs and access to that wifi cloud thing.

[leowyatt]

personally I couldn't give a hoot about visual voicemail :p aslong as everything else works I'm going to get one from the states and unlock it here, saves me around £60.

EDIT: infact I've just seen the tariffs and O2 can take a flying leap at the moon, I'm staying on T-Mobile, there is a work around to get voicemail working even though it's not visual.

[petemc]

10:42 - Q: Unlimited data packages: will those go to other contracts as well?

Matthew: "On 1st October we'll be rolling those out for all out customers."
Steve: "It's the future."

YES! I have to get on that some how. Personally, as I'm happy with my 12 month contract and Razr2 phone, I'd rather spend £299 on the iPod Touch. Dedicated phone battery and dedicated music player battery. Just to be safe.

[leowyatt]

well I've heard that the touch screen isn't as good as the iPhone's but that'll be fixed shortly as the QC people at the factories need to fix some layer or something in the screen ;D

[Daz]

Matthew: "On 1st October we'll be rolling those out for all out customers."
If that extends to 3G, I'm in.

[Mark]

Where is all this info coming from? :huh:

1400 wap pages, or 1400 web pages? Big difference.

Wouldn't do without 3G now so an iPhone is off the agenda (wasn't really on it anyway even though I'd love that big screen).

[leowyatt]

which info mark? the iPhone info? I got mine from here (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/18/live-from-apples-mum-is-no-longer-the-word-event-in-london/)

[Mark]

Web pages then, which is what I expected tbh. :)

[Jasper]

same here. very disappointed that there's no 3G. Wonder how those WiFi networks are going to cover, though. Might just get an iPod Touch - when they make AppTapp work with that as well, it'll have the potential to be an awesome device!

there's a WiFi network I can get on at work, and 1 I can get on at home, those are the only places I really browse the net anyway, so a Touch might be best for me after all.

[Mark]

Quite a few train stations and places like that are on the right Wi-Fi network. Reading certainly is. OK at home too of course as there's a Wi-Fi network there, but still, if other phones can manage it then battery life is a bit of a lame excuse. I like all the off the cuff comments basically amounting to 'same old schpiel then' in the engadget report.

Steve Jobs is clearly in it only for the money - on about wanting to foster openness (no DRM) on iTunes in one breath, then RIAA-like lockdown of the iPhone in the next. :/

[Matblack]

3G coming early next year, Apple really are a pain for selling a half finished product and then screwing early adopters aren't they?

http://www.tech.co.uk/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/news/uk-iphone-wont-get-3g-this-year?articleid=352028958

MB

[Jasper]

one of the main reasons I didn't buy a Macbook Pro until it'd been out for ages. They never seem to get a bad name for doing it though! MS release a half-assed OS, and the critics are all over them like a rash. Apple users appear to just bend over and take it!

[leowyatt]

Yeah it certainly is a pain, I think personally I'll just stick with a touch until the new version comes out early next year. After playing with one on Valley Fair I thought they were excellent but I'm far better sticking with T-Mobile.

EDIT: Apple users don't bend over and take it, we whinge like a whingy thing :p

[Jasper]

not me! I just use all the willpower I can muster not to buy their shoddy rev1 beta products! [I wait til at least rev3!]

[Matblack]

This will explain everything

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg&mode=related&search=

MB

[Matblack]

Hehe, I like this one too, although it has rude words in it so NSFW

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc&mode=related&search=

MB

[leowyatt]

well people do whine it's just the mainstream media doesn't pay them much attention.

I seriously doubt there will be a high adoption of the iPhone by UK consumers as the product isn't advanced enough.

[Matblack]

OOooooooo liking this too :D

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkrn6ecxthM&mode=related&search=

MB

[Mark]

Hehe, I like this one too, although it has rude words in it so NSFW

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc&mode=related&search=

MB
Nice to see that one is still going strong. I remember that from the first time. Very appropriate too...

BOAT ANCHOR. :D

[leowyatt]

damit stupid sonicwall I can't watch these till home tonight.

[Mark]

Oh dear...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7017660.stm

Expect a flood of unlocked iPhones on eBay in the not too distant future. :(

[leowyatt]

aye I saw an article on digg talking about the lock. Currently there is no way round the problem, you can't even do a false activation to jailbreak the phone. I think the dev team will be rather busy over the next few days ;D

[Belmit]

Yeesh. To be expected though.

[Flibster]

Anyone after a 1gb Shuffle?

Got an unopened silver one here - I'm more than happy with my Cowon collection so I'm not going to need it.

Simon/~Flibster

[leowyatt]

Oh dear...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7017660.stm

Expect a flood of unlocked iPhones on eBay in the not too distant future. :(

not necessarily (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/29/breaking-reports-of-1-1-1-to-1-0-2-iphone-downgrades-trickling/)

[Piggymon]

Anyone after a 1gb Shuffle?

Got an unopened silver one here - I'm more than happy with my Cowon collection so I'm not going to need it.

Simon/~Flibster


How much dude ?

I could do with something now I've started doing power walks 3 times a week !