View Full Version : Want to build a shuttle type media centre pc
Anyone have any suggestions on internals / case. I want it to be a small case with an IR receiver on the front. Looking for as good performance as possible with passively cooled CPU and GPU. My main worry about this is the graphics card as i've seen a few systems where it looks shocking on the TV with the lines etc and have been unable to read any text. What i'd really like is a scart option for it which auto switches when the box gets turned on. I'll be sticking Vista Ultimate on it so needs to be fairly beefy. I won't be doing any recording from TV as i have Sky+ so just playback required.
As cheap as possible too would be nice, if it can be done for the price of a second hand xbox 360 + games then even better :D.
TV output from most graphics cards is notoriously bad. If you have a flat panel TV when there's the VGA/DVI route. If not, then unless you have component inputs or you're willing to give the ATI/SCART hack a try (posted in a thread somewhere on here and not guaranteed to work), then you risk being disappointed.
LeperousDust
04-11-2007, 14:05
Why would you want vista ultimate? Right now i'd actually suggest playing around with Ubuntu, with MythTV and SageTV and/or maybe even LinuxMCE (or whatever but im not so impressed with that) installed. You won't need anything beefy then either, just whatever you can lay your hands on if your just out for playback. Look on the MM or ebay for second hand parts that fit the bill. Try and stick intel and nVidia i think it may be easier in the long run... Doesn't need to be a shuttle either loads of boxes out there that will fit gubbines inside and still look decent under the TV too :D
Del Lardo
04-11-2007, 14:25
What do you actually want to use the pc for? Is it just to watch TV shows you have lying around on your network ;) or do you want to use it for internet etc?
TV output from most graphics cards is notoriously bad. If you have a flat panel TV when there's the VGA/DVI route. If not, then unless you have component inputs or you're willing to give the ATI/SCART hack a try (posted in a thread somewhere on here and not guaranteed to work), then you risk being disappointed.
Aye i know it can be bad, i was using TV out on my main pc before i got my laptop and i could barely read anything in windows regardless of the resolution, luckily videos played back ok. It's just a standard CRT type TV.
Why would you want vista ultimate? Right now i'd actually suggest playing around with Ubuntu, with MythTV and SageTV and/or maybe even LinuxMCE (or whatever but im not so impressed with that) installed. You won't need anything beefy then either, just whatever you can lay your hands on if your just out for playback. Look on the MM or ebay for second hand parts that fit the bill. Try and stick intel and nVidia i think it may be easier in the long run... Doesn't need to be a shuttle either loads of boxes out there that will fit gubbines inside and still look decent under the TV too :D
Because i have it :) and have been quite pleased with it so far. I really CBA messing around with OS's i don't know and have no trouble shooting experience with. I was just using Shuttle as an example, any small form factor case would be considered.
What do you actually want to use the pc for? Is it just to watch TV shows you have lying around on your network ;) or do you want to use it for internet etc?
Primarily for playing back video and music really, might do a spot of gaming if i can get it running quick enough.
OK, let's put this another way. Besides PC gaming, is there anything you want to do that you can't use the XBox360's media capabilities for? If it's just for media then the TVersity route is definitely worth looking at.
If you absolutely must have a PC, then by all means. I'll be watching this thread too as it looks like I'll need to replace my shuttle-type media PC at some point. It's a few years old now and sadly it looks like the heat in that confined space has got to it, with the first signs of instability.
I just don't like using the xbox, it's so noisy and transcode 360 appears to have no more devs working on it. Some fims have no picture and the skipping forward and rewinding is a complete pain in it too.
Ha! I suspect my media PC manages to be louder than an Xbox, but fortunately it doesn't take much volume for me to be able to ignore it.
Anyway, a C2D-based system should be more than capable of what you need (don't get a Quad - they're great for bigger systems but in a confined space a Duo will run cooler and quieter). As for graphics, I got a passive Gigabyte 7300GS for my Linux system which was more than enough for that. Gigabyte actually do a fair few decent passive cards though the higher spec ones need two bays which can start to cause issues where space is at a premium.
I generally stick with AMD although i haven't looked into CPU's for a long time, if they are still cheaper and heat isnt and issue i'll prob stick with them. I shouldnt have space issues as it won't have much in it so will prob go for a a better graphics card, obviously depending on how it looks in windows on a TV.
Del Lardo
04-11-2007, 18:25
Unless gaming is a real must personally I would avoid the cost and hassle of a media PC.
Options I would consider.
1. Hacked Apple TV
2. Media Center Extenders (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Promotion_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1175237542889&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=4288927773L03) as MS has announced that they will support DivX and Xvid
3. Use an existing media player (http://www.linksys.co.uk/acatalog/Kiss_1600.html) that will work with uPnP shares
Ooh, hacked apple TV. That sounds intriguing - probably for a seperate thread though.
Generally I agree - from my own experience if you don't need recording/encoding/transcoding/upscaling etc. then a PC really isn't worth it.
Unless gaming is a real must personally I would avoid the cost and hassle of a media PC.
Options I would consider.
1. Hacked Apple TV
2. Media Center Extenders (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Promotion_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1175237542889&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=4288927773L03) as MS has announced that they will support DivX and Xvid
3. Use an existing media player (http://www.linksys.co.uk/acatalog/Kiss_1600.html) that will work with uPnP shares
1. I know nothing about this will have a look into it.
2. When and on what platforms? If my Xbox could do that then i wouldnt even bother looking at a different solution.
3. How do these things work with codec updates etc though?
1) I've played with an Apple TV in an apple store. If you've ever seen a recent Mac it's essentially a locked-down version of Front Row (same remote too). Looked good but probably has codec limitations. Not sure what hacks are available for it (which I'd guess would help with the codecs).
2) Xbox can do that sort of thing, but MS's implementation is limited. Using the likes of TVersity as a media server will give you a lot more options (but you have to wait for it to finish encoding before rewind/fast forward work).
3) Most don't, but some are firmware updatable.
As well as the Apple TV, I'd also suggest you look at the Pinnacle ShowCentre 200 - if you can obtain one in the UK (Amazon/eBay is a good source).
No experience with macs so thats prob not going to work for me anyway :).
You mean the xbox will be able to play avi's with no 3rd party apps?
Will have a google.
Del Lardo
04-11-2007, 18:56
1. I know nothing about this will have a look into it.
2. When and on what platforms? If my Xbox could do that then i wouldnt even bother looking at a different solution.
3. How do these things work with codec updates etc though?
1. My housemate has hacked his and it plays anything he can throw at it. Can find out details if you want.
2. IIRC they will be adding the functionality to add Media Center solutions so PC, 360 and the extenders.
3. They come with all the latest xvid, divx codecs then firmware upgrades are available. The nextgen Linksys ones have a fantastic UI as well then they're not due out till Q1 08 (not that I know that ;))
1. Nah its ok thanks, will rather stick with stuff i know for this sort of thing.
2. OK so a patch for the media centre then, handy.
3. Tempting if number 2 doesnt work out :).
That Linksys KiSS 1600 looks pretty nifty actually. Do you know if you can do proper fast forwarding / rewinding of AVI's? Also, I've read about these sort of devices being quite sluggish through menus etc, is that the case with this one.
Actually it doesn't sound too good after all:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/113178/linksys-kiss-1600.html
45 secs to start playing a video and ignoring order of cd's is pretty poor.
LeperousDust
05-11-2007, 14:45
Have you got a 360 or ordinary xbox? You can put the XBMC on the old style xb, i think that works quite well? Especially if you have the remote...
I have a 360.
After looking round at similar devices to the linksys i'm being drawn back to a media centre pc again. They all seem to suffer from the same issues and at least i remain in full control of a highly configurable device if i go down that path. Looks like i can spec a fairly decent system for around £350 new so am going to see how i can do with second hand suff.
Pumpkinstew
05-11-2007, 17:11
I have the KISS DP 600 and have been pretty disappointed with it. The KISS firmware was lousy and although the Linksys re-write has improved things greatly it still won't support 5.1 surround sound from the analogue jacks. Since it's no longer being supported I suppose it never will. Although there is an animation of a dolphin on the LCD screen now, which kind of makes up for the lack of decent sound.:huh:
I've been able to playback most filetypes from an 80GB Lacie external USB HDD but it fails to recognise my 500GB Freecom. :dunno:
DVD playback is OK on my standard def CRT screen via SCART, but then I wouldn't see any signal degradation on that set up.
I confess I haven't tried streaming media wirelessly (although there's enough evidence that it doesn't work for me to think it's not worth bothering.)
I've bought the bits for my media centre pc now, cost just under 270. I think the flexibility of it far outweighs any of the standalones i've looked at so far, i'll be sticking vista ultimate 64 on it. Here's the spec if anyone is interested (i have 1gig of 6400 DDR II already):
Antec NSK1300 MATX Cube Case Black/Silver - With 300W PSU
ASUS M2A-VM HDMI 690G Socket AM2 onboard VGA 6 channel audio mATX
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ (2.1GHz) Socket AM2 Energy Efficient L2 1MB (2x512KB) Cache Retail Boxed Processor
Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA II 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO SILENT 256MB DDR2
LiteOn DH-16D2P 16x48 DVD-Rom Black Bare Drive - OEM
SCART -SVHS+2Ph .75m
Cyberlink Media Center Remote Control - With Mini USB IR Receiver
Have you got a 360 or ordinary xbox? You can put the XBMC on the old style xb, i think that works quite well? Especially if you have the remote...
i've had my XBMC xb for like 4/5 yrs and its still awesome :D
stick a 300gb HDD in and pump it full of video files :D
*the version of the XBMC/Executer OS that i've got isn't great with drives over 250gb but there might be an update seen as though that was 4 yrs ago that i set it up.
It'd serious pwn all systems with like a 1tb disk especially if you're a dab hand with a soldering iron as the xbox has serious mod options on it with it being a stripped down PC in a small, quiet box. :D
oh yeah - and its dirt cheap. i paid £120 many moons ago.
LeperousDust
11-12-2007, 19:21
Exactly, you can pick xboxs up for sod all now days, rebox them, and throw XBMC on and bob really is your mothers uncle for under £100. Shame a processing power is huge though... There are a few drawbacks of XBMC but for the money you really can't complain...
bob really is your mothers uncle
Bob would need to be your mother's brother ;)
I shall let you know.
My biggest concern at the moment is how power management will work and if i can resume from standby / turn on with the remote control.
LeperousDust
12-12-2007, 19:05
Bob would need to be your mother's brother ;)
Dammit, smart arse :D Must egage my brain the next time...
My biggest concern at the moment is how power management will work and if i can resume from standby / turn on with the remote control.
Powering on from cold probably requires hardware support. You might be able to resume from Standby though (the MCE remote supports this).
FYI - Lozza - if you're looking at the Fusion case still, this case supports remote power on, but wiring it up is a pain in the backside (you have to remove the whole LCD/IR panel and add wires to the back of it - and rumour has it that the holes for the wires don't line up with the connectors. I didn't need this feature so didn't bother. :/
On the subjecct of the HD 2400, it doesn't have hardware DVD playback acceleration so the CPU will have to work harder (though that CPU is more than capable). For the benefit of anyone else spectating, DVD hardware acceleration is enabled fully on the HD 2600 XT and 38x0, partially on the 2900, and (I believe) not on the 2600 Pro or 2400. Higher-end nVidia cards are supposed to have equivalent features too but driver support seems a little more flaky.
Powering on from cold probably requires hardware support. You might be able to resume from Standby though (the MCE remote supports this).
Ah k that's probably good enough as it will be off most of the day. Wonder how the scart switching works with standby.
It's all up and running now, fairly pleased with it although not sure it's as quiet as it could be. It's just the PSU and PCI slot fan running at the moment but depending on how heat goes i may drop the PCI slot one. The mobo supports USB power on from S4 which is hibernate which is fine by me as it auto hibernates after an hour. Have 2 niggles at the moment, i can't use FF and RW while watching AVI's and it doesn't auto switch SCART channels. Latter i'm not too fussed about but i really want to get FF and Rw fixed.
I bought an Arctic Cooling Freezer-64-LP Dual Cooling Low Profile Processor Cooler and took the fans off as they are too noisy.
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