View Full Version : Footballers = overpaid muppets?
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 12:58
Decided to start a new thread on this rather than clog up the other one.
"Hey you overpayed tw**s, go out there and play a game. Try and play it better than the other overpayed tw**s please. Score some goals if you can!"
And what players there are, as fantastically overpaid
They're still overpaid muppets
Obviously the opinion from some people (most?) is that footballers are overpaid. I've had thoughts on this for some time but never really mentioned it till now. The main thought I have is - footballers are not overpaid, at least not more than a lot of other people who never get slated for the money they earn.
Football is an industry like any other. You have people at the top end, and people at the bottom end. The lower league footballers probably don't earn much more than me (an IT Technician), yet the top footballers can earn millions. This is comparable to so many other businesses and industries, where lowly workers struggle on minimum wage, while the directors at huge international firms get paid millions of pounds each year.
Why is it that only footballers seem to get slated about the money they earn? I never hear people say actors are overpaid, or musicians. Denzel Washington got paid roughly £20m for his last film, yet probably only did about 3-6 months work on it. No footballer in the world earns that kind of money. How about the top musicians? They can earn millions for a top selling album, and millions more from a tour, yet all they do is sing or play an instrument.
I know people are going to argue that all they get paid to do is to run around a field kicking a ball, and though I feel that's a very narrow view (the amount of training required to stay fit is unbelievable), the same comments never seem to get thrown anywhere else. Tiger Woods earns more a year than pretty much every footballer, but all he does is hit a little ball around, he doesn't even run after it. Hell, Lewis Hamilton gets paid millions for sitting on his arse in a car.
Yes footballers at the top level do get paid huge amounts of money, more in a week than I make in 5 years. I do wish I was paid as much as they do. However, why is it only footballers who get slated for the money they earn? Why does no-one else get called "overpaid muppets"?
Over to you.
I will post, but will have to from home as I'm posting this on my mobile. THe work filter blocked this because of the word 't**t' :)
Edited the post so you should be clear now :)
As for are they overpaid? Yes, I think so. I think there are plenty of people that are overpaid...but they get paid what people are prepared to pay them for the work they do. The players are a commodity in a business just like anyone else.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 13:08
Edited for you Kitten :)
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 13:10
As for are they overpaid? Yes, I think so. I think there are plenty of people that are overpaid...but they get paid what people are prepared to pay them for the work they do. The players are a commodity in a business just like anyone else.
Exactly. It's all supply and demand, I remember it well from when I did Business Studies at school. It's not the fault of the players if the market means they're paid more than others. I actually don't blame them for taking the money, I know I would in their position.
No I don't think they're overpaid, they are paid what they're worth in the football world.
However, I think that with that level of pay comes exceptionally high expectations, of ability, determination and suchlike. As such don't go moaning about the pressure of performing, that comes with the territory!
Admiral Huddy
22-11-2007, 13:16
Generally no, they are not. However, the problem lays with players that are demending much more than their worth and thereby outpricing themselves. An average english player is of no interest to top flight overseas clubs because they are too expensive compared to others that maybe half the cost and work twice as harder. In this case, why would any english player want to leave for half the rate. This seems to be the general english aptitude at the moment, not just in football. It's cheaper to get workers from abroad who work twice as hard as the lazy english.
When you look at the premier league, you start wondering why there isn't the English presence. Arsenal, for example started the other week with one English player. If this isn't proof that something is wrong than nothing will be.
English footballers need to become attractive purchases to both domestic and overseas clubs. Otherwise english players won't get a look in.
On another note, I was shocked in the summer when we found out that Martin Jol didn't have any general fitness program to his training program. It was no wonder we conceeded so many goals in the last 10 minutes of a game. They weren't fit enough. Being paid they way they do, they'd be on my trainining ground all day every bloody day.
leowyatt
22-11-2007, 13:32
I think their wages all comes down to what people are prepared to pay them. If the team has the supporters who'll see them week in week out and they as a player do well I see no reason they should not receive the wages they do.
As Davey said just thinking they get paid for the 90 minutes a week they play is flat out wrong. So much goes on in the background, they are on strict diets, they train every day and there is the pressure too. I don't know who of us here could deal with the pressure of 40,000+ fans all hating you because you aren't performing well.
If people think they are overpaid then the FA should introduce a salary cap like the one which will exist in Super League next season.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 13:38
As Davey said just thinking they get paid for the 90 minutes a week they play is flat out wrong. So much goes on in the background, they are on strict diets, they train every day and there is the pressure too. I don't know who of us here could deal with the pressure of 40,000+ fans all hating you because you aren't performing well.
Not just that, but it disrupts your life too. We here think nothing of going out and doing whatever we want, but as a famous footballer you can get mobbed everywhere you go, so it often restricts your lifestyle a lot. It may not be a huge thing, but it wouldn't be nice to want to go out for a meal but have to reconsider because you don't want 500 fans hassling you while you try and eat.
Matblack
22-11-2007, 13:47
You all make valid points however I think that they don't do themselves any favours in the public eye, they make people resent them when they get themselves in the public eye for the wrong reasons. Football seems to be a sport where it doesn't matter if you bring you character into question where as Woods, Hamilton and various others have to behave for their sponsors or risk bringing their team into disrepute. This doesn't seem to be the case for footballers, they tool about and no one seems to pull them up for it, although the press making heroes out of them ultimately gives them further to fall.
Because I don't enjoy football I resent how well paid they are in comparison to less commercial sports stars who put in just as much effort if not more to their training Paula Radcliffe cleared just under £.5m in her most successful year to date, some of our top athletes earn virtually nothing from UK athletics and only get paid anything else if they actually win an event. I know the TV and advertising money isn't there for so called 'minority' sports but somehow I would rather see the money spread around a bit rather than all concentrated in one sport.
The bottom line is I can forgive footballers for being highly paid and if they aren't highly paid I can forgive them for being muppets but if your highly paid and a muppet your are going to fall into my 'overpaid muppet' classification.
MB
When football stops being presented as a sport, then perhaps I can understand what you're saying, Davey.
It's a business now and an incredibly successful one. Kids are brainwashed at a young age that they must like football. YMF was bullied at his school before one because he had enough of a mind of his own to decide that he wasn't interested in football and when asked what team he supported, he couldn't name one. Now I'm not suggesting that everyone who is a football fan is doing it just because they've been indoctrinated into a little club but it seems that if you're not interested, you're cast as a social outcast, gay, whatever.
I've seen it myself, chatting to the barber he happened to ask what team I supported - When I said I wasn't interested in football he gave me a really filthy look.
But I'm drifting off the subject.
If football were marketed openly as a business then I'd say that they're not overpaid but as sportsmen, yes, they're ridiculously overpaid.
All fair enough points MB. The problem with some of the lesser paid sports is that they're not team games, therefore they don't have a stadium that make 50,000+ people turn up every week to pay money to watch. This is where the money comes from.
If Paula Radcliffe could run in a stadium every weekend and get 50,000 people to watch, and more importantly, pay, then she'd get paid millions.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 14:08
If football were marketed openly as a business then I'd say that they're not overpaid but as sportsmen, yes, they're ridiculously overpaid.
So all top sportsmen are overpaid? What about actors and musicians?
Hardly, football takes the prize for highest earners. Rubgy players for example aren't paid even half as much, yet play at a higher level, more passion and honour than the pansies that are football players. Top athletes, swimmers and other types of atheletes, heck even snooker players aren't paid nearly near as much - yet they are so much more pleasant to read about, talk to, are generally more educated and in general much more bothered about their profession. They can call themselves professional sportsmen, the football players are mere puppets that don't have the guts to stand for any values and just go with what the flow is. Sure some of them do stuff for charity and whatnot, but they hardly are diplomats for the country or their sport. And the fans they bring along with them don't help. If they lowered the salaries and let them played for the passion of playing things would be different. I'm willing to bet that if you paid them say 200k a year you'd lose the majority of the teams, those that remained are either the mini leaguers that aren't that good, or left with the real passionate players.
Clubs pay them the money they need to keep them away from other clubs. It's an arms race. Well more of a legs race really harhar.
Performance related pay for Footballers that is what I would like to see. Not this 'based on his previous track record he is worth X million' contract -I mean paid a core wage (albeit a good one lets face it premier league footballers shouldn't work for nothing). The rest of the wage is performance related.
Do I think they are overpaid? Yes I do, especially with the amount of bitching they do about the pressure and the exposure (take the rough with the smooth, you can't have it both ways). Conduct yourself properly, make an effort and do a good job and it's amazing how much less hassle they would get anyway!
However, I think that about all sorts of people (footballers, actors, musicians etc).
As usual, others word my thoughts far better than I could - Huddy, MB and Will have all got it nailed :)
Not all, Davey but some are, yes. The top F1 drivers certainly are but I think that they're probably the main ones who are well overpaid. I don't really know much about other 'sports' so it's not fair for me to comment. F1 is very definately a business now and has been for a good few years.
As for actors, it's different. They're not hiding behind the concept of playing a game so I don't think the comparison is valid.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 14:26
Hardly, football takes the prize for highest earners.
Not really. Golfers, top racing drivers, and top US Sportsmen all earn more on average than footballers do. If you're just talking UK though, then you are indeed correct.
Edit: http://www.top10land.com/top-ten-highest-paid-athletes-in-2007.html
Musicians work well hard, studio time and tours are stressfull as, I still do them for free however.
Well they're hard unless you are U2.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDuK46ZqFM
Stan_Lite
22-11-2007, 14:50
I think they are overpaid for what they do, in relation to other sports men and women. Most sports require single-minded dedication and training and require the top level players to give up "normal life" but very few are paid as highly as top level footballers. I don't blame the players, if someone wanted to pay me the salaries they earn, I'd bite their hand off. I don't even blame the clubs, they pay what they can afford to keep the best players they can afford - Tiger Woods doesn't play golf with a set of clubs costing £300 from J D Sports, he plays with a custom made set costing thousands of pounds.
I blame the fans for the ridiculous sums paid to these players. They are the ones who shell out up to £70 a week to watch the games (the lowest price for a ticket at Stamford Bridge is £35 :shocked:). Most English Premiership clubs charge over £20 for their cheapest tickets. For many of of the people paying these prices, this probably equates to around 10% of their earnings and then there's the obligatory team shirt, scarf, hat etc. If the fans said "No, we're not going to shell out 10% of our wages or £40 for a £10 shirt so that these guys can buy £5million houses and £200,000 cars, you'll have to pay them less and cut your prices or we won't watch."
It'll never happen but any football fan who goes to games or pays £20 a month to Sky, or however much it costs cannot complain about the players wages, it's their unwillingness to take a stand which perpetuates the situation.
The same goes for actors and musicians, if people refused to pay £8 to go to the pictures or £15-20 for a DVD or £14 for a CD, the artists would be forced to take a pay cut and give value to their fans.
We've nobody to blame but ourselves. I'm as guilty as the next man as I pay £15-£20 2 or 3 times a year to get into Celtic Park to watch the SPL champions work their magic :p
Indeed, it is society that allowed these individuals (be they footballers, musicians, actors etc) to be so well paid. It is us that pays them! Directly or indirectly, we are ultimately to blame.
I don't have a particular problem with that either - its up to you how you choose to spend your money! I watch hardly any TV, I don't watch football anywhere, I don't buy magazines etc so I don't directly contribute much to the bank accounts of these people, with the exception of musicians. I actually think that if someone does something that I enjoy they should be rewarded. I enjoy music a lot, so I don't mind buying CDs when I can afford to.
I don't really see the difference between buying a CD and buying a nice bottle of wine or an upmarket meal. Someone somewhere has done something that I enjoy - why shouldn't they be rewarded for that? Extend that argument to football - people here quite clearly enjoy the game. People might choose to pay £30 to enjoy 90+ minutes of a game, how is that any different to paying £30 to enjoy an excellent steak at a top restaurant?
Whilst I don't enjoy football myself, I cant say I don't see why - and consequently why people pay so much.
Admiral Huddy
22-11-2007, 15:22
The bottom line is I can forgive footballers for being highly paid and if they aren't highly paid I can forgive them for being muppets but if your highly paid and a muppet your are going to fall into my 'overpaid muppet' classification.
MB
;D I loved this comment .. very true haha
In my opinion - yes they are.
At the end of the day they do the same thing. Yes you get the top and the bottom, but essentially they do exactly the same - they train and kick a ball around. Now for example, I'm still working part time at Thorntons until I find a job. I serve people and stack shelves. Now the Finance MD doesn't just stack shelves, doing a better job than me. He balances the books, makes forecasts, points out areas where savings could be made etc etc.
At the end of the day they do the same thing. Yes you get the top and the bottom, but essentially they do exactly the same
They might all WANT to do the same thing but they CAN'T all do the same thing. Some of them just aren't as capable as others. Comparing it to stacking shelves isn't the same thing...being better at stacking a shelf doesn't get your company more money. Being better at sport than someone else does.
No...but the basics are there. Most of the time they do the same things better e.g. heading, running, tackling - which to me doesn't = £80,000 a week.
They might do the same basic function, but as a business, you want the best people to do those same basic functions.
If I worked for you as a professional farter and earnt you £1M a year, you'd be happy. But what if someone else comes along who can fart better than me (not gonna happen, but just use your imagination)? He farts twice as much and earns you £2M a year. So who do you pay the most? We both perform the same basic function.
Stan_Lite
22-11-2007, 15:52
They might do the same basic function, but as a business, you want the best people to do those same basic functions.
If I worked for you as a professional farter and earnt you £1M a year, you'd be happy. But what if someone else comes along who can fart better than me (not gonna happen, but just use your imagination)? He farts twice as much and earns you £2M a year. So who do you pay the most? We both perform the same basic function.
I see the point you're making and agree with it wholeheartedly - it's called economics, you pay the best farter more because he's more valuable to you and you want him to stay.
I only really quoted it because it made my face hurt laughing ;D;D
Are top flight (important to make the distinction) footballers overpayed? In my view (and I'm not answering for anyone else here) yes. Muppets? Yeah, that too.
That's not to say I don't understand why it is so, because I do. Professional football is first and foremost a business. The sporting aspect is a means to an end - winning = more money, losing = less. Supporters may not see it that way, but you can bet the club's boardroom do.
To win, you need good players. Good players are a very scarce commodity indeed, so as sure as night follows day you can bet that if one team won't offer a huge pot of cash, another will, and so beginneth a bidding war. As long as the supporters of a team are willing to pay for season tickets and Sky Sports subscriptions so that a team can afford to pay the wages, they will.
I am therefore resigned to the fact that there will always be overpaid muppets in football.
I think muppets is perhaps a bit harsh. These people have got themselves in to a position where they can retire in their thirties if they want to, be that rightly or wrongly.
Overpaid in the grand scheme of things certainly but you cant just take money out of an industry overnight.
[edit]In the grand scheme of things I'm talking about comparing what they earn to say people in the emergency services. Though we might be moving into privatising the health industry here so I'll shut up :D
[edit2]To be fair you cant overlook the contribution this sport and in turn the people involved with it contribute to the economy.
It seems I've not thought my own opinion through here :o Stand by the first comment though, I dont think these people are muppets.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 16:04
Are top flight (important to make the distinction) footballers overpayed? In my view (and I'm not answering for anyone else here) yes. Muppets? Yeah, that too.
That's not to say I don't understand why it is so, because I do. Professional football is first and foremost a business. The sporting aspect is a means to an end - winning = more money, losing = less. Supporters may not see it that way, but you can bet the club's boardroom do.
To win, you need good players. Good players are a very scarce commodity indeed, so as sure as night follows day you can bet that if one team won't offer a huge pot of cash, another will, and so beginneth a bidding war. As long as the supporters of a team are willing to pay for season tickets and Sky Sports subscriptions so that a team can afford to pay the wages, they will.
I am therefore resigned to the fact that there will always be overpaid muppets in football.
I can see what you're saying there, but surely if someone is being paid what they're worth to a club (or business, whatever) then they're not overpaid?
From the hard-headed business perspective, I don't disagree. As far as the club (and arguably the supporters) are concerned, the only overpaid player will be the one getting on the bus out of town because they're bloody useless.
Doesn't stop the rest of us non-supporters thinking they're overpaid though, and that I suspect is the crux of the matter and the reason why I think this will end with everyone agreeing to disagree.
this will end with everyone agreeing to disagree.
I'd rather it ended with somebody telling me how I can earn £1M a year from farting.
If you can do 1M, Desmo, I can be the person who does 2M worth :D
One thing I do think is, if I were a footballer I'd realise i'd never need that much money and I would give it all away, you can never use all that cash on anything worth having. Then again I have a very different outlook on life than most people.
I might retract the muppet statement as I'm sure a lot of them can't help behaving the way they do since they probably lack the education or the opportunity to have been brought up in a decent lifestyle. Furthermore, they do their best (allegedly) at what they do - they are still in my eyes not worth the adoration they are given. Still as far as I'm concerned they don't contribute anything worthwhile to society certainly not for the amount they are paid, and Davey, yes I did mean within the UK, after all this is what we are addressing. I stand by my points that I made earlier, that should you give them an average London salary (around £45k I hear) heck even a couple hundred grand, I doubt many of them would stay in the game. Furthermore, I wish they were more educated if they are going to be idolised by children at least behave properly. Stop all this spitting, and aggression, be more gentlemanly, use good proper English, stop being so pathetic and feel sorry for yourself. A person of such monetary wealth (that is about the only wealth I can associate with footballers I'm afraid, they are nothing but very average "celebs" to me) and in the unfortunate position to influence so many weak minded individuals they have a duty to display more values than they currently do.
Why did they not strike or stop playing everytime a football fan is injured or killed owing to fights between fans? Why are they not doing something to make the game better and give a better name to the sport? It's not all about winning, getting, me me me me. That's where all these fools get these attitudes from and go round wanting blood just for the sake of crazed mass hysteria through purely peer groups or media and public brain washing.
I'd have so much more respect for them if they achieved even 50% of what I see as primordial soup levels of evolution. I'm sure on the whole they are decent people and can influence and use their wealth to improve things, however when you are paid such a disgusting and obscene amount of money for doing something which you are supposed to be passionate about they have a responsibility and a right to try and elevate their values and peer groups to a level which is seriously lacking.
Football is not evil, it's a good sport, heck the rest of the world play it, but the rest of the world who are better at it, paid less, are just as passionate about it, yet do not have 300 newspapers/magazines ramming it down the throats of the nation. What I object is the almost religious association with it and that ye be damned should you even utter a contemptuous word against the mighty game of football.
I could rant all day about this and I'm very very stubborn about it. I won't post in the other thread as I don't really want to drag this on.
I don't hate football at all, in fact as a child I used to love going for a kick about with friends - but I'm afraid since moving here it's put me right off.
A slightly different angle to put on this. This came up from reading a business focussed article about a year / year and a half ago when Beckham was with Real Madrid.
He went there on a 4 year €35m contract. That seems a shocking amount, insanely high for some guy that'll be kicking a ball around a pitch for at most 90 minutes, usually once a week. The article wasn't really interested in the football at all, but was looking at him as a brand and a business commodity. In that 4 years he brought in in Merchandise profit alone more than twice the value of that contract. As a business commodity purely from that perspective he was getting paid appropriately to his value, and Real Madrid did very nicely off him. Once you get past that you need to consider the value he's worth in TV rights, club finishing positions, sponsorship attraction and so on and so forth. Every time he went on the pitch and Real won it boosted his marketable value, and boosted the clubs marketable value. The more he contributed to the winning, the more it boosted his personal marketable value.
To be honest, if I was him and I'd gone to Real Madrid, I wouldn't have accepted a penny less than €35m, given what brand strength I would be bringing to the club. Not because I want to be rich (couldn't give a damn to be honest), but because I want to make sure I'm valued for what I am, and €35m would be about right.
I really don't see why people are bitching about football being a business? We live in a capitalistic world. Its almost impossible for it to be any other way, frankly. If you want to stop it being a business you need to completely shake up society and the way it works. Possibly even head down socialist / communist routes.
First comment wasn't aimed at anyone, just a general view.
No what I meant was it doesn't matter if they're not educated, but owing to the success that they have brought themselves into they have a responsibility to make sure that the blindly idolising kids that follow their every steps are given the best chance in the world and don't throw it all away just for football, because not everyone is going to get the chance he did. They deserve their success if they've earned it, in my opinion i don't think they deserve quite the obscene amounts of money they do, certainly not in the diminished responsibility they perceive to have on the nation. In spire of some of the footballer's successes there is more to life and success than football, and i think a lot of young kids don't see that - yes it's a good alternative to going stabbing people (not that that's getting any better) but instead of inciting team building and gamesmanship it seems to bring about gang behaviour and "if you're not in my team then I'll ****in' 'ave ya" sort of yobbishness - I've witnessed it first hand, on many many many occaisons. It might just be london but I doubt it.
Just to contrast, in general other athletes (from athletics to swimming to golf), or even rugby most of the players have been educated to a-level and above - so you can have a professional sporting career and still have some modicum of academia to at least be relatively coherent or interesting. They're not going to play football all their lives, though with the money they earn they can probably retire at 30 anyway. I just wish they were more sensible and a behaved more in a role model style. Furthermore stupid pathetic girly (no offence) faking of injuries and prima donna attitudes and behaviour REALLY riles me beyond belief.
Justsomebloke
22-11-2007, 21:21
It's a shame that the Passion of the game leads to violence in some supporters but in my experience it is usually thugs beating on Thugs & rarely involves Joe public. Especially these days with heavily monitored stadiums. It is also unfortunate that Non football goers only ever see the advertised violence & don't experience being part of the Good side of football induced Passion.
For people like me who thought we would go on & play pro like Millions of other little league kiddy's it is an innocent, Productive past time/hobby & passion. There are not that many innocent healthy activities for some kids to get involved in & football is a Superb diversion to Mischief. I played as a kid & even played in a cup final. When we lost i sat down in the middle of the pitch & cried my eyes out ;D I was 7.
My coach was a Responsible Good person (one of the very few i met) who had some influence on me & my mates. It was also an escape from my house for a Whole afternoon legally away from my Mother & whatever step dad i had at the time.
Then supporting your club now that is even more Passionate. I supported my chosen club because my best mate supported them & for No over reason. It gave us something to follow & to belong to which was Legal. It takes a Sick individual to go up to a stranger & whack them & that Sicko would do it no matter what he said he followed whether it be some Nazi group, football club or heavy Metal. In my experience the so called Top boys seek out other Firms & kick off with each other. It's Always been this way, there is no kudos in kicking the crap out of Joe public. Far from it, You would not be going to the next match with the firm if you got off on beating on nobody's.
So to the O.P.
I personally think they get paid Far to much money. I believe there is a lot of money generated commercially through football & there talent but that should be spread further down the line to lower league players & clubs. Stadiums should be improved throughout the country incorporating other sports. Stadiums should then be open & more public so the local people in whatever area could benefit from it. Football clubs should be a family orientated arena to bring the community together & enrich it through participation in sport, Not necessarily football. The wage money should be used for the stadium, events & the local area.
Justsomebloke
22-11-2007, 21:31
^^ Even though i lived & supported a London club i never really got the sense of a Derby :(
S'pose having mates that supported most other clubs local takes the edge of it for what we got up to.
Our best games were Always against Leeds :lipsrsealed:
leowyatt
22-11-2007, 21:40
even rugby most of the players have been educated to a-level and above - so you can have a professional sporting career and still have some modicum of academia to at least be relatively coherent or interesting.
Sorry Will but that is a very biased answer. I assume you are talking about Rugby Union which is always played by posh/grammar schools and don't play football as it is too common, so of course the rugby players will have a higher level of education than the footballer who goes to a worse school.
At my school the rugby union team were treated like Gods and they were as thick as they came, they did the only thing they were good at. These were lads who were attending a grammar school which cost their parents around 15k a year to attend and got a bloody good education but simply couldn't take it in.
Rugby Union is primarly played in the south where as League is very much a nothern sport. So I think if you include all rugby variations then you'll see that there are some which have a higher level of education than others and the same can be said of football.
Piggymon
22-11-2007, 21:47
I''ve got nothing really to add about football players but Will, you have made me rather angry this evening.
Your posts seem to be saying that because someone isn't educated to University level, they aren't interesting or intelligent..
Guess what ? I didn't go to Uni, I dropped out of college and I'm not on a high-flying career path. I don't get up at 5am every morning and I work my standard 40 hours a week and nothing more but does that make me any less of a person ?
It seems to in your eyes going by the comments you made these last few months :(
I'm sure you don't mean to look down your nose at people but it's really felt like that recently :/
I just reread your post above and noticed what you said about the A-levels (i don't think that was there before). A good education comes from (generally) a good background and a good start in life. Footballers start on a level playing field (pardon the pun). Having money, or a fantastic eduction doesn't make one lad any better than the kid next door who has been brought up on a shoestring but can beat any goalie in the school.
Football is one of the only areas where kids like that have a chance to get somewhere. And yes it would be nice if everyone was well educated, and passed lots of exams, but where would the hope be for the thick or poor kids that don't have that option?
My point was you don't have to be well educated to succeed or achieve a lot of money - but as a responsibility to the children that are idolising you you have to make the effort to reform them. Yes not everyone is academic, hell, I'm not, however i make the effort to share the education I've had, to make sure that the people I have an effect on walk down a better path. I know football for a lot of deprived areas is the common denominator and the language that everyone understands, and in the main keeps them out of trouble (though I'm guessing only a proportion). That in itself is great, but it's only part of all of it.
You're quite right that education is owing to how one is brought up and the lifestyle that has been bestowed on you as well as the moral guidance offered as an infant. However that doesn't mean that owing to an unlucky start to life all that a person can achieve is tunnel vision for football. The responsibility of the players that earn these huge bits of cash do affect the young. Yes it inspires kids to become footballers, but not everyone can be a footballer, and they can't let it rule their lives either.
It's this dependence and obsession to almost grotesque levels that I find very disconcerting and it makes me very uncomfortable. Passion is not something I'm adverse to either. You've spent time in Latin countries yourself, and in the Mediterranean, you know that their lifestyles are based around heart rather than head. However, there are times when you have to stop chasing daydreams and concentrate on the cold hard truth that an education is going to help you more than knowing all the clubs all the players and all the vital stats of every football club and player in the country - though obviously that would be quite impressive.
I'm being rather cackhanded at putting my point across tonight (I blame 3x 14hr days starting early!) - I'm not castigating football or it's fans or people that love it. On the contrary it's good. What I am chastising is the level and the association of the problems that seem to be bleached out by the idolisation of football players which regardless of their past, that football and the sums of money involved can cause.
Football is a common language for a lot of people - but talking is another common language we can use - it doesn't mean that every person does it correctly, and hence mis-interpretations happen which leads to conflict. I just want to be able to see kids and adults enjoying football, in mixed fan crowds, see people play that actually care about the game and it's supporters, are suitably paid, and de-sensationalise the overhyped nature of the sport in this country.
I want to be able to say "I don't support a football team" without people's jaws dropping and being labelled as some outcast, or dare admit that I don't like football for fear of flagellation. I want to be able to watch the news without a 30 minute chat about football on every channel. The balance is askew it's actually not health - there is a very distorted view what the differences are between being a fan and being an evangelistic zealot.
Malc's last paragraph post is very poignant on my feelings. If we are going to keep the obsession we have with football, the players need to take more responsibility and in my opinion earn their money and deserve it rather than apathetically accept it as part and parcel of the job. That sort of attitude stinks.
Just to contrast, in general other athletes (from athletics to swimming to golf), or even rugby most of the players have been educated to a-level and above - so you can have a professional sporting career and still have some modicum of academia to at least be relatively coherent or interesting.
What in gods name has education got to do with sports ability? And a-levels got to do with coherance and being interesting?
I''ve got nothing really to add about football players but Will, you have made me rather angry this evening.
Your posts seem to be saying that because someone isn't educated to University level, they aren't interesting or intelligent..
Guess what ? I didn't go to Uni, I dropped out of college and I'm not on a high-flying career path. I don't get up at 5am every morning and I work my standard 40 hours a week and nothing more but does that make me any less of a person ?
It seems to in your eyes going by the comments you made these last few months :(
I'm sure you don't mean to look down your nose at people but it's really felt like that recently :/
I've said nothing of the sort. I've implied that they have a responsibility to promote education in spite of being ill educated themselves. They have the ability to play good football and they have achieved it - this doesn't mean others can either.
Never once did I imply that people who haven't been lucky to receive a good education aren't worthy of achievements - what a ridiculous interpretation that is - it is I that is mildly miffed that you'd think I'd say or think something like that. :/
And hey if I've managed to rustle some feathers it's a good thing, it's part of debate, makes you think. Just like when I read that tripe called the Daily Mail - makes me extremely agitated and angry and feel compelled to write to the editor. Evoking reactions and feelings is part of what this thread is all about and about understanding the underlying passions/attachments/stigmas attached to football.
I won't hide it, yes I do have a snobby side, it does come out at times, but that's who I am. I don't mean for it too, and in spite of my flaws it doesn't change who I am does it? So I make a few mistakes, and I think that some things are below me?! Who honestly doesn't do that?
What in gods name has education got to do with sports ability? And a-levels got to do with coherance and being interesting?
Nothing - I've already explained the reasoning behind my debate, albeit somewhat out of context to the original post I must say.
Well, if a debate is based around ruffling peoples feathers and being a pretentious sanctimonious eejit then I step away from this debate. Snobby is fine so long as it's not snobby at the expense of 'friends' values and feelings.
I'm just not that good at spitting it out.
And Karyn, please don't go aggressive on me it really isn't meant to be that way :(
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 22:36
I won't comment on some of the earlier posts as I think they've been explained, but I would like to add one thing regarding the "intelligence" of footballers. It is indeed correct that most of them have a basic education. Some of them do come across as a bit thick when they're interviewed on TV. However, in many ways their brains are sharper and work faster than any one of us on this forum. I watch football, and I play as much as I can, and often the difference between a good player and a great player isn't in their ability to control or pass a football, it's in their mental abilities, the way they instantly look around and make the right decision based on what they take in from a split second glance.
Take last nights game for example, where Beckham crossed for Crouch to equalise. When the ball was rolling to Beckham, he looked up for literally a split second. In that time he saw Crouch running into the box, and he figured out exactly how much power to put on the cross, how much elevation, how far in front of Crouch it neeed to be (taking into account how fast Crouch as running), and did it all while being closed down by a defender. That's not just footballing skill, that's sheer brain power. It's just brain power of a different sort.
And Karyn, please don't go aggressive on me it really isn't meant to be that way :(
I'm not getting aggressive Will, trust me. I'm saying what I think in a couple of sentences rather than padding it all out into half a page with big words and veiled criticisms.
LOL! Ignore me, if I didn't have the kids here I'm in the frame of mind to be out smashing windows tonight.
Davey_Pitch
22-11-2007, 23:22
I think it's disgraceful the amount of money that's in football. I saw an Everton birthday cake in Asda before for £3.49! £3.49!!! :angry:
;)
None of my birthday cake you for this weekend then :p
killerkebab
23-11-2007, 04:15
Hardly, football takes the prize for highest earners. Rubgy players for example aren't paid even half as much, yet play at a higher level, more passion and honour than the pansies that are football players. Top athletes, swimmers and other types of atheletes, heck even snooker players aren't paid nearly near as much - yet they are so much more pleasant to read about, talk to, are generally more educated and in general much more bothered about their profession. They can call themselves professional sportsmen, the football players are mere puppets that don't have the guts to stand for any values and just go with what the flow is. Sure some of them do stuff for charity and whatnot, but they hardly are diplomats for the country or their sport. And the fans they bring along with them don't help. If they lowered the salaries and let them played for the passion of playing things would be different. I'm willing to bet that if you paid them say 200k a year you'd lose the majority of the teams, those that remained are either the mini leaguers that aren't that good, or left with the real passionate players.Would you halve your salary 'for passion' in your profession?
Football takes the prize for highest earnings because football is by far the most popular sport in the world. Who can blame the top footballers for taking the money they are given? Wouldn't you?
Actually, its not even close for highest earnings, all things considered (and even outright?). Golf, Basketball and F1 all pay more than most Premiership footballers could ever dream of earning. I don't know who the highest paid footballer is, but it was mentioned above that Beckham was paid €35m on a 4-year deal when he moved to Real Madrid. Schumacher was paid ~£20m by Ferrari in his last season for them. I think the average F1 wage bill is something like £40m for the teams. Even if only half of that was paid to the two drivers, I don't know of any premiership footballer getting paid £200k a week.
Davey_Pitch
23-11-2007, 10:34
The highest paid sportsman in the world is Tiger Woods, with Beckham in place. No other footballer comes close though, with all the next positions taken up by golfers, F1 drivers, basketball, baseball and US Footbal players. I would imagine Roger Federer to be very high as well.
Matblack
23-11-2007, 10:41
The highest paid sportsman in the world is Tiger Woods, with Beckham in place. No other footballer comes close though, with all the next positions taken up by golfers, F1 drivers, basketball, baseball and US Footbal players. I would imagine Roger Federer to be very high as well.
As I said before for me its about how these people conduct themselves, in the main those people come across (with a very few exceptions) as decent members of society however this is too often not the case with footballers.
I understand that its a team game and that there are more of them to do something wrong and more press attention on them but despite that they do seem to make idiots of themselves on far too regular an occasion and as they have a huge following in the UK they are often not good role models for young people and adults alike. This is what in my mind makes an overpaid muppet, not the size of the paycheck.
MB
Sorry Will but that is a very biased answer. I assume you are talking about Rugby Union which is always played by posh/grammar schools and don't play football as it is too common, so of course the rugby players will have a higher level of education than the footballer who goes to a worse school.
My nephew goes to a secondary school which is very very big on rugby, and it isnt a posh school or a grammar school :p
Sam isnt the brightest button in the pack, but the school are doing their best to make sure each child's own potential is reached.
I can see what Will was trying to say. Perhaps he didnt say it in the best way.
I'd like to explain my perception of what Will meant in my own special little way....Megan idolises Dora the Explorer. Dora is a well behaved young lady who takes pride in everything that she does. She works hard, is kind and thoughtful to others and is always polite.
Now if my almost 4 year old idolised lets say... Cookie monster... I'd be concerned. All he cares about is the cookies. Getting the cookies, keeping the cookies and consuming the cookies, and staying out of cookie rehab. In my opinion he's always been the bad boy of sesame street, more so than oscar the grouch. He's never been bothered about anything else as long as he gets his cookies at the end of every scene he's in. Ok, so I could've used a better example but I'm eating a cookie here :p
Toby seems to want to be a teletubby when he grows up- he'll grow out of it I hope.
We all have different levels of education, lifestyles and such. Diversity is the spice of life in my opinion.
I have 9 gcses, failed 4 a-levels, gotten halfway through 2 nvq's. I'd really like for Megan and Toby to go further with their education than I have so far, and i'd much rather they idolised celebrities who are good people (yes, I know education has nothing to do with being a good person) who strive to reach their potential (whether that's through formal education or not) and have passion about what they do.
I'd like to explain my perception of what Will meant in my own special little way.....
You mad bint, go to bed :p
Dymetrie
25-11-2007, 01:15
have passion about what they do.
I think this is the most well thought out and important point that has been made in this thread.
In my opinion then footballers are paid an incredible amount of money,m are stars, and do nothing with it. Other athletic stars (who are paid immense amounts) actually try to promote either their sport or an education and bettering in general.
I wouldn't call our football stars muppets... OK, I would, but only because they seem to just live the life of Riley rather than trying to encourage the young to strive to be better in a beneficial way.
Of course I could be wrong...
I wouldn't call our football stars muppets... OK, I would, but only because they seem to just live the life of Riley rather than trying to encourage the young to strive to be better in a beneficial way.
Of course I could be wrong...
There are some footballers that get involved in various community outreach projects, and stuff like Footballers against racism or whatever its called ("Show racism the red card"), but like many of us (myself included) they could do more :)
There may be a demographic reason for it though:
Tiger Woods was born in Cypress, California.
Roger Federer was born in Basel, Switzerland.
Wayne Rooney was born in Croxteth, Liverpool.
;)
Von Smallhausen
27-11-2007, 01:31
Ridiclulous salaries have ruined the game.
Top players earn over 100k a week. Soldiers put their lives on the line for about 15k a year.
There are very few players at the top who put the effort in every time. Alan Shearer is one. Yes he earned a fortune but he was consistent and did the job. Many do not.
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.