View Full Version : 6 Nations
Matblack
04-02-2008, 14:36
Oh dear of dear, what a state of affairs, Wales roll us over at fortress Twickers for the first time in 20 years!
Talk about a game of two halves it looked like England and Wales swaped shirts at half time going from total dominance to total defeat, mind you we did lose 4 players to injury.
The only consolation for me is that I'm off to watch Wales play Italy at the Millenium Stadium in a couple of weeks so they should be pretty fired up :cool:
MB
Blackstar
04-02-2008, 14:38
Scotland lost to France, we played well rubbish :(
Del Lardo
04-02-2008, 14:43
I missed the game as I was flying out to Moscow but just watched it on the stand oposite ours and it looked like a cracking game (well I would say that as the result went in our favour).
Two years in a row now, I wonder if we'll make it three?
England were a bit crap in the second half, it looked like the teams had swapped shirts at half time. I'd say we lost it more than Wales won it....but fair play to them...they came out wanting it in the second half.
I think the same can be said for France during the last world cup. They were capable of giving us a thrashing, yet we beat them. It's not a nice feeling when you are on the losing side, but hey, it would be sport otherwise.
There are a few players that really impressed me, and a few I really didn't expect/want to see on the pitch.
Now I've had time to think about it more, it seems a lot of the World Cup criticism, mainly by Lawrence Dallaglio and Mike Catt, is still valid. During the second half of the match, we played with no plan. It was identical some all of our World Cup "shameful" matches. We have the talent to beat most teams, but without a fixed plan and structure it all falls apart.
Everyone seemed to be using different ideas, creating overlaps for the Welsh. The few breaks we did have were mainly solo attempts (like Strettle's run).
I just hope the problem is with the team itself (which is fixable) rather than Brian Ashton (which won't be fixed).
Another shocking second-half performance, and again it looked like we had no plan. I really would love to know what is being said at half time. I don't blame people kicking too much, when that is the only option they have.
I'm sorry but the second half was a bit on the dire side. Kicking the ball away far too often, I could understand the commentators frustrations. Every time they got it, bam, off to the side even if the Italians were no where near them. Great tries in the first half, but the rest of the time it seemed we were reliant on flukes rather than skill to get us through.
killerkebab
11-02-2008, 03:06
Italy should have won that the way the second half was pissed away. They got themselves together really well near the end and they were unlucky.
As for France well, bring on the next guys :D
That said, Ireland gave us nothing short of a cracking game which I doubt will be matched any time soon.
Matblack
11-02-2008, 10:08
Well I must say I'm looking forward to a fortnights time when I'm going to see Wales v Italy at the Millenium Stadium, Wales are fighting all the way and Italy should be a good challenge but ultimately beatable :)
MB
I'd say it was a little early to say whether Wales are fighting. Everyone wants to beat us, and Scotland only have 1 decent player. :D
My worry at the moment is that Lawrence Dallaglio and Mike Catt at still being proved correct. They both said that, at the end of the match, ask all the players what the plan was and they'll all give you completely different versions.
Vainikolo should have come inside more, but then we don't know what he has been told to do.
A lot of sport websites are giving our players low ratings, when I feel the problem doesn't lie with them.
I was horribly hung over yesterday after an intense saturday session with two matches to get through! Ended up missing the one game of the weekend i actually wanted to watch so now hittin up BBC iPlayer for yesterdays game - brilliant start from England ftw :D
The other shoe drops in about 40 minutes... :angry:
I wonder what goes on in the England meeting room some weeks. Selection is a joke! Brian Ashton is picking Andy Gomersall at 9 when he can't even start for Quins, who are crap this season. Same applies to to Phil Vickery, who has played very little club rugby and yet he is still captaining England. Why? Josh Lewsey has been left out, and yet yesterday he ran two great tries past Bath's backline in broken play situations. What has Balshaw done for England so far...?
The players are making basic errors in the 2nd half. Wilko looked rattled against Wales, and when Cipriani came on against the Azurri he had a kick charged down inside his first 5 mins and he never recovered. Fortunately Wilko went to the boot so much during the 2nd half that any chance of a 9 - 10- 12 -13 move was already dead in the water, so Cipriani's slow ball didn't affect England's game. I was very sceptical about Vainikolo's inclusion in the squad, but so far he has looked the most dangerous man out there. Haskell is also fantastic at the moment, though he gives away too many penalties. One thing is for sure though - the team aren't going out with the confidence they will need to beat France.
That kick from Cipriani really had me a little confused. Charge-downs can be forgiven, but that kick wasn't even going anywhere useful.
I watched Bath against Wasps yesterday, Josh Lewsey was solid on the attack (2 in 2 minutes always helps!) and was reliable when tackling. I'm a bit of a fanboy with Lewsey, so I was less than pleased when Ashton didn't pick him.
Having watched London Irish beat Leicester today, Paul Hodgson is really impressing me at the moment. Hopefully he will get a chance to shine for the Saxons.
Pumpkinstew
19-02-2008, 14:34
Lewsey is the kind of player who responds well to a boot up the arse (in this case getting dropped). His form hadn't been good for club or country in a while and Ashton has always said he sees him as a wing, where England have a surplus of talent right now.
If it was my decision I'd have him back in at FB in a flash.
The Cipriani/Wilkinson debate is all just media guff in my opinion. JW is still head and shoulders above the young pretender, even when not firing on all cylinders. If Barkley wasn't left out of the squad, solely due to his assault charge and the perceived negative publicity it would generate, Cipriani wouldn't even be on the bench.
By all means give him game time with the game already won but if Wilko got injured (hey it might happen :D) would you feel comfortable with Cipriani running the game at 10? Taking the pressure kicks at 17-15 down with 3 minutes left? His blunder against Italy and refusal to acknowledge that even had it not been charged down it was the wrong option is proof that he isn't ready yet.
Having watched London Irish beat Leicester today, Paul Hodgson is really impressing me at the moment. Hopefully he will get a chance to shine for the Saxons.
He's in the full squad after Richards was injured. He may start against France as Gomersall can't last a full 80 at the pace the French will play at and Wigglesworth is competent but doesn't offer much more than reliability.
Some interesting points there. I agree with your sentiments re. Lewsey at 15.
10 is an interesting position for England. Personally I have no faith in Olly Barkley regardless of the assault charge, on his day Cipriani is better IMO, and to be honest so is Ryan Lamb who I'd like to see selected as 1st option for the Saxons. He's still young and has a lot of good ideas and creativity without being dangerous in the manner than Danny was on Saturday. Of course there is no doubt that Wilko will always be first choice fly half so long as he is fit. I do find myself missing the barrel-shaped figure of Andy Goode trundling around the pitch at pre-match warm up time though... :D
Wigglesworth ought to be playing 9 before Gomersall gets a look in as far as I am concerned. To be fair though, Élissalde is going to rip any 9 that England can put up to pieces.
... Actually, to expand on that, most of England's back line are in trouble against France. Clerc, Rougerie and Heymens are astoundingly good at the moment, they are playing superb attacking rugby and look dangerous every time they get the ball.
Pumpkinstew
19-02-2008, 15:54
Barkley does seem to divide opinions. If he’d been fit for England during major tournaments when they were crying out for a decision making 12 I think the majority opinion would be very different. The selection policy at Barf hasn’t helped him either.
Either way Ashton thinks he walks on water and the decision to omit him from the squad was rumoured to be made against his judgement.
Personally I’ve always rated him highly and if the rumours are true and he’s going up the road to Bristol for a regular start in a 10 jersey next season I’ll be delighted. :)
He's in the full squad after Richards was injured. He may start against France as Gomersall can't last a full 80 at the pace the French will play at and Wigglesworth is competent but doesn't offer much more than reliability.
Good stuff. Having just seen the the team for the match on Saturday, I feel *slightly* happier. Still.......Balshaw.....:confused:
Today has really surprised me. Teams I was expecting to shut up shop came out a tried to play in a fairly open way.
Finished re-installing my PC, just in time for the big match. :cool:
Ok, I've been very happy with this. The last try should have been Vainikolo's though, he can easily get through 2 defenders. I'm going to say it again though, Balshaw...:huh:
Good victory though. Great match.
Wigglesworth ought to be playing 9 before Gomersall gets a look in as far as I am concerned.
Sorry to quote myself chaps, but Wiggleworth done good :D I also said Ellisade would put him to shame, I didn't realise he wasn't on the team sheet and even when the experienced Yachvili came on, the young Wasps man held his nerve well.
A great win for England, finally they have taken stock of their performances and made changes. Hopefully Haskell's injury is not serious.
Sorry Will.
no you're Not! :p
Pumpkinstew
25-02-2008, 00:05
If you remain gracious in defeat Will I won't dig out the sig I made after the World cup semi :p
Lipman was robbed of MoM. Tireless 80 minutes of hard graft that went largely unnoticed.
Wigglesworth (who is a Shark not a Wasp) was slow to a few rucks and his service became a bit ropey when under pressure. I'd pick him again for next week but I'm convinced Hodgson is a genuine future England scrum half whereas Wigglesworth is filling the shirt until others are fit again.
Balshaw must surely have used up his last life now.
I don't even know where to start today...
Dymetrie
08-03-2008, 18:19
What an incredibly lacklustre performance from England.
There was a moment in the first half (line outs at the Scottish try line) where we looked like an effort was being made. Other than that it was a dismal performance and even Jonny's magic boot had lost its sheen.
Seriously hope we can put together a better performance against Ireland next week.
Del Lardo
08-03-2008, 18:43
I don't even know where to start today...
I do! Woohoo, tripple crown :D
Matblack
08-03-2008, 18:59
Very pleased for Wales my adopted team but England looked like they'd never played in the rain before, they might as well not have bothered showing up :/
MB
Blackstar
09-03-2008, 02:42
*is pleased* even though i didn't watch today match i'm glad we played well, as i come from a rugby family (cousin played and now coaches the Scotland 21s) Scotland get a lot of practice in the rain.
Was qutie amusing to watch the England Scotland game in the Shaftesbury Ave Walkabout. 300 Aussies hurling abuse at the english ;D fortunately I have a sense of humour, and hid in a corner until sidling out at full time.
What a dull match :(
semi-pro waster
09-03-2008, 12:30
I didn't watch yesterdays match (stupid pool hall played MOTD in dodgy stereo instead) but I'm pleased with the result rather than the manner of victory (I'd generally prefer to watch an open game with a few tries rather than an exchange of penalties), from all I've read, heard and seen since it seems that Scotland played to the conditions a lot better and had more direction than England. Perhaps the nicest surprise is that Nathan Hines managed not to get himself sent off and had a good game overall. :embarrassed: :D
Congratulations to Wales on the Triple Crown, definitely the best of the Home Nations this year and good luck for the Grand Slam as well.
Next weekend, I'm a Frenchman :D
semi-pro waster
09-03-2008, 16:57
Next weekend, I'm a Frenchman :D
Couldn't you admit to cross-dressing or something? Just pick something that carries less of a social stigma. :p
Matblack
09-03-2008, 17:57
I'll be down in Wales for Super Saturday with my Wales shirt on :)
MB
I'll be down in Wales for Super Saturday with my Wales shirt on :)
MB
:D
Should be a good Saturday. I'm hoping to be in Swansea in a pub somewhere watching it. Been wanting to the past few weeks with workmates but haven't been able to. Can't believe what good form they've had this year.
Next weekend, I'm going to be in a Frenchman :D
\o/
This post may have been edited to add extra teh funneh
;)
MB
Pah! You mock me, but next weekend is going to be awesome when France steal the 6 Nations in the dying minutes of the match.
I wonder if the Welsh boys are already working out their tanning salon sessions for this week so that they all turn out looking like a boy band in time for the big game... ;D
Stan_Lite
09-03-2008, 21:32
Woohoo, we won the Calcutta cup \o/
More importantly, we managed to win a game - hopefully we can avoid the wooden spoon.
I didn't see the match as I had a prior engagement but I appreciated the humble congratulatory text from Mr Nutcase on the occasion of our victory :D
Woohoo, we won the Calcutta cup \o/
More importantly, we managed to win a game - hopefully we can avoid the wooden spoon.
I didn't see the match as I had a prior engagement but I appreciated the humble congratulatory text from Mr Nutcase on the occasion of our victory :D
Nowt humble nor congratulatory - just a failed attempt to get a comedy reaction :p
off to the England-Ireland game next weekend, what a waste of time that's going to be now :(
Kamikaze_Pigeon
15-03-2008, 20:01
'ave it!!!!
Grand Slam innit boyos!!!!
that'll be all
Piggymon
15-03-2008, 20:02
Breaaaaaad of Heaaaaavan !!!!
HAVE IT !!!! :D
EDIT : lol !! Great minds ;) ;D
France played like ****, Wales had all the momentum for being at the top - Wales have got a lot of stick in the past for not being a side that worthy, but they have completely changed and really have stepped up to the challenge and beat one of the world's best teams - however France don't deserve that title because frankly they played amateur rugby compared to Wales.
Congrats well deserved.
semi-pro waster
15-03-2008, 20:50
Well Scotland just managed to avoid the Wooden Spoon and did score two tries, that is about the best I can say from that match.
Congratulations to Wales, a well deserved victory. Apart from the first half against England they have been the best team in the tournament.
I managed to completely miss the England game :o and struggled to watch the Wales game because the pub I was in was also showing the Arsenal game depsite there being only 1 person in the place with an Arsenal top (my mate) :angry:
Apologies to Will :) I did honestly mean the gracious bit tho :p
And congrats to Wales. Great to see a country so supportive and enthusiastic about Rugby do so well. You all did yourselves very proud :cool: Wish I could be in Cardiff tonight!
MOST FRUSTRATING 6 NATIONS EVER!!!
C'mon, we beat Italy, we beat France, we beat Ireland but (no disrespect) throw the bloody game against Wales and play arse against Scotland.
Arrrrggggghhh. We could have won the bloody grand slam this year (albeit perhaps undeservedly). Still, good to see Danny Cipriani come through with flying colours and the newbie back rowers get blooded.
Still flippin' annoying though!
Matblack
17-03-2008, 10:45
Breaaaaaad of Heaaaaavan !!!!
HAVE IT !!!! :D
EDIT : lol !! Great minds ;) ;D
:D
Very pleased with the result, the Welsh team played well, good to see them up and out and ready to defend, there were times when the ball was on the ground with 6 Frenchies on top and all the Welsh team were back in formation and ready to blitz, very nicely organised and played with passion as always.
Wales seem to go through periods of being either world class teams or absolutely dire but as one of the comentators mentioned they are always fun to watch :)
MB
MOST FRUSTRATING 6 NATIONS EVER!!!
C'mon, we beat Italy, we beat France, we beat Ireland but (no disrespect) throw the bloody game against Wales and play arse against Scotland.
Arrrrggggghhh. We could have won the bloody grand slam this year (albeit perhaps undeservedly). Still, good to see Danny Cipriani come through with flying colours and the newbie back rowers get blooded.
Still flippin' annoying though!
Dude to be fair, England were utter gash for 95% of the tournament. The game against Scotland is being heralded as one of the worst that an England team has ever played by some of the newspaper pundits and commentators. It was inexcusably bad, and it was even more inexcusable that Brian Ashton only dropped one player after it.
In the mid week interviews, Ashton claimed that he'd won 7 out of the last 10/11 games that his team have played. He showed now concern for how the squad are actually playing. England aren't building towards anything at the moment. They were in the doldrums when they went to the World Cup, and they had moments of brilliance and a lot of luck that got them to the final. I thought that it marked a turning point, and that they would once again become a side that any team ought to worry about facing, but instead they narrowly missed coming 5th in the Six Nations. You mentioned the Italy game, another fixture where they collapsed in the 2nd half. Against Ireland or France, they'd have lost. Jeez, they were lucky that Italy couldn't string half a dozen passes together, it was close at the end.
As international sportsmen, England need to come away from this Six Nations feeling frankly quite ashamed. There are certain people who must be dropped, including Balshaw, Flood and Shaw.
there were times when the ball was on the ground with 6 Frenchies on top and all the Welsh team were back in formation and ready to blitz
That was because they weren't challenging at the breakdown. Wales played a clever game by keeping their forwards out of rucks and mauls. Against other sides, they'd have been punished for it. Against the French, it was highly effective. That said, the French pack is traditionally strong, so it was a gamble.
*snip* No argument from me regarding the Scotland game, we were absolute gash - part of the frustration..!
I suppose it's the inconsistency which is the most frustrating as well - if we played like the 1st half against Italy and Wales throughout (i.e. the whole of the France game), we've clearly got the talent to have won the lot which makes me wonder WTF is going on with the players/coaching setup to make players underperform so woefully.
I'm not convinced about Ashton personally, I don't think he has the character to pull the team up and make effective decisions unfortunately. Also not convinced about Balshaw, especially with Lewsey, Tait etc as alternatives - Flood and Shaw I think are decent players though. Noon had a good tourney but his suicidal-tackling style will be exploited hugely against better teams as it leaves massive gaps if he misses.
Is an annoying time to be an English supporter!
My thoughts exactly, Balshaw out, Lewsey in.
I heard mention of confusion between backroom staff, hence England playing with no fixed plan. Must be tricky if no-one is singing from the same hymn sheet.
Noon has shown consistency, which is a rare thing at the moment. Even if he does make a mistake, the 872 explosive tackles before that probably make up for it.
Rumour this week is that Jonno will come in as an assistant manager...
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