View Full Version : Have you paid your TV Licence?
This site makes for very interesting reading:
Linky (http://www.bbctvlicence.com/2006%20letters.htm)
The guy raises an excellent point. Should you wish to stop using terrestrial free-to-air television, rather than show any measure of concern, the BBC and TVL are satisfied by simply threatening and harassing the general public into paying them more money. Which is rude.
I assume that the purpose of such a statement is to alarm me, or perhaps embarrass me in front of the postman.
;D
I thought it was a nice touch comparing the letters he received to British Gas.
I hate licensing I think its completely ghey.
But of course I pay this one ;)
We have one at work called the National Newspaper Licensing Agency. Which states that if we printout/photocopy any of the press that we have been in (written ourselves) and if it is printed in Trade Press or such like we have to pay for this licence.
What bit my bit (?! - whatever the phrase is :p) is that they contacted us last year for indemity which over the last four years meant we had to pay for the reproduction.. which they cannot prove!!! Ridiculous.
Apols for the mini rant!
/waffle
BB x
It's all just scare tactics and it isn't on. They bombard expired properties with demands for payment rather than ascertaining whether a license is in fact required. It's poor etiquette and is nothing short of harassment. When I move in to my flat, we're getting digital TV so we will be getting a license but before then my soon-to-be roommate has a single 15" CRT television. He watches no TV and can't get a signal if he tried. Roof aerial doesn't work and he doesn't own an indoor aerial. He uses it for his 360, nothing more. However he has been harassed non-stop for months. He's called them and explained that they can come and do all the checks they need, in order to confirm his TV isn't receiving a signal, yet they won't come over to him. They just send more letters, demanding the license fee, telling him that he's going to be taken to court and that he's breaking the law. He's had 22 letters so far this year from them, it's damn ridiculous and I believe he's currently researching on the best place to complain about it, because it simply is an attempt to acquire money by harassment at the end of the day.
Stan_Lite
18-02-2008, 16:57
TVL are utterly useless and pay no attention when you do contact them anyway.
When I was living in the company flat, my employers paid the licence fee and we always kept the licence handy just in case. I decided I wanted some 37" HD LCD goodness so popped down to the local Hydro Electric shop to spend some of my hard earned cash. They, of course, took my details and two weeks later I received a letter from TVL stating that they were aware that I'd recently purchased a television but there was no record of a licence in my name at that address. OK, thought I, that's fair enough even though it should have been relatively simple to check their database and discover that there was actually a valid licence for that address in a different name. There was a form on the back for the purpose of informing them of this in which I had to input the name on the existing licence and the licence number etc. which I filled in and dutifully posted to them.
Two weeks later I received another demand from them so I filled in the form again but added a comment that I had already done so and that if they could not manage to check their own system, I would no longer play their game.
I got another demand a few weeks later and decided I was just going to ignore them. I got several more letters similar to the guy in the link until I finally got a visit. The guy knocked on the door and asked my name which I told him, he then told me his detector had detected that I was watching telly which I admitted. He then proceeded to tell me that it was an offence to watch telly without a valid TV licence which I agreed with. I then showed him the licence with my employers name on it. He went very red and mumbled what I took to be an apology and scrpered rather quickly ;D
Numpties.
It's all just scare tactics and it isn't on. They bombard expired properties with demands for payment rather than ascertaining whether a license is in fact required. It's poor etiquette and is nothing short of harassment. When I move in to my flat, we're getting digital TV so we will be getting a license but before then my soon-to-be roommate has a single 15" CRT television. He watches no TV and can't get a signal if he tried. Roof aerial doesn't work and he doesn't own an indoor aerial. He uses it for his 360, nothing more. However he has been harassed non-stop for months. He's called them and explained that they can come and do all the checks they need, in order to confirm his TV isn't receiving a signal, yet they won't come over to him. They just send more letters, demanding the license fee, telling him that he's going to be taken to court and that he's breaking the law. He's had 22 letters so far this year from them, it's damn ridiculous and I believe he's currently researching on the best place to complain about it, because it simply is an attempt to acquire money by harassment at the end of the day.
Would the burden of proof be upon the TV licensing in this case or your friend ? I mean how on earth can he prove he doesn't watch TV without making a statement to that effect in good faith.
What really annoys me about the licensing fee is that it helps stifles better radio programming. iirc the BBC have about 80% of the available bandwidth for their FM broadcasts which makes it nigh on impossible for any other broadcaster to operate on a national basis
Treefrog
18-02-2008, 17:04
Yup, had exactly the same procedure from TV licensing since I moved into the flat 10 years ago. Letter after letter after letter - all of a threatening tone, not one asking whether I had a TV or not.
I could have replied and told them that I didn't have one, but after their thinly veiled accusations that I was watching TV without a licence I wasn't prepared to pay for a stamp in order to tell them that I didn't have a TV.
I can be an awkward sod like that ;)
TVL are utterly useless and pay no attention when you do contact them anyway.
<snippage>
Numpties.
Similar thing happened when I was in halls at University. Unpleasant little bald man turned up at people's doors demanding to see licenses, he got through two entire floors visited over 80 rooms and he'd already filled in three or four forms for people who didn't have a license. Then someone mentioned it at the security desk at the front of the building, and they escorted him off the premises because he didn't sign himself in when he arrived. They recommended he throw away any evidence of the people he'd caught in order to save himself the hassle of the Uni filing an official complaint! 'Twas awesome. :cool:
Would the burden of proof be upon the TV licensing in this case or your friend ? I mean how on earth can he prove he doesn't watch TV without making a statement to that effect in good faith.
Surely the burden of proof lies with the TV licensing agency. We are after all still innocent until proven guilty, so they ought to produce evidence to suggest that he does in fact receive a signal and watch telly, rather than the individual, in this case iCraig's mate, proving that he doesn't.
Would the burden of proof be upon the TV licensing in this case or your friend ? I mean how on earth can he prove he doesn't watch TV without making a statement to that effect in good faith.
Well he's offered on more than one occasion for them to come around. He said, come over, any day, any time and run your tests. I have nothing to hide, but they just ignored that and carried on sending him letters. It shouldn't be up to him anyway to prove his TV is only used for X. It's down to them to prove it's being used for Y before they can take him to court over anything. Innocent until proven guilty, you don't ram him into court and go "Right, you're guilty of not paying your TV license. You now have the opportunity to prove your innocence. Begin!"
Until they have proof, they shouldn't go around threatening and harassing people.
Innocent until proven guilty, you don't ram him into court and go "Right, you're guilty of not paying your TV license. You now have the opportunity to prove your innocence. Begin!"
Interestingly, and on a side note, I believe this is how the legal system in Japan works. The accused is presumed guilty unless he can prove himself innocent. :confused:
Treefrog
18-02-2008, 17:13
Until they have proof, they shouldn't go around threatening and harassing people.
Agreed. But as the letters are just worded to sound intimidating rather than actually accusing they are underhanded but not illegal, and I'm guessing that they can send out a lot of letters for the same cost as one inspector's visit.
And like the e-mail scams - if it didn't work, they'd stop doing it.
Agreed. But as the letters are just worded to sound intimidating rather than actually accusing they are underhanded but not illegal, and I'm guessing that they can send out a lot of letters for the same cost as one inspector's visit.
And like the e-mail scams - if it didn't work, they'd stop doing it.
Indeed. I imagine that they are particularly effective with pensioners.
Admiral Huddy
18-02-2008, 17:26
I once paid a Bill... Bloody cowbow he was.
Any letters we get from them, I bin. Ive had this problem for years, they keep sending letters saying there is no license at this address. Yes there sodding well is!
Daz goes mad at me ;D
That's funny Stan :)
****es me off that you have to pay 6mths in advance aswell.
How completely *** is that!?!
BB x
Justsomebloke
18-02-2008, 18:10
I pay mine & I am on my arse :p
I have a little plaggy card i use & pay a bit off here & there, I get a letter every now & again telling me i have fallen behind a bit & just pay a bit more, It's not one of the bills that causes probs i must say :)
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 20:02
TVL are utterly useless and pay no attention when you do contact them anyway.
When I was living in the company flat, my employers paid the licence fee and we always kept the licence handy just in case. I decided I wanted some 37" HD LCD goodness so popped down to the local Hydro Electric shop to spend some of my hard earned cash. They, of course, took my details and two weeks later I received a letter from TVL stating that they were aware that I'd recently purchased a television but there was no record of a licence in my name at that address. OK, thought I, that's fair enough even though it should have been relatively simple to check their database and discover that there was actually a valid licence for that address in a different name. There was a form on the back for the purpose of informing them of this in which I had to input the name on the existing licence and the licence number etc. which I filled in and dutifully posted to them.
Two weeks later I received another demand from them so I filled in the form again but added a comment that I had already done so and that if they could not manage to check their own system, I would no longer play their game.
I got another demand a few weeks later and decided I was just going to ignore them. I got several more letters similar to the guy in the link until I finally got a visit. The guy knocked on the door and asked my name which I told him, he then told me his detector had detected that I was watching telly which I admitted. He then proceeded to tell me that it was an offence to watch telly without a valid TV licence which I agreed with. I then showed him the licence with my employers name on it. He went very red and mumbled what I took to be an apology and scrpered rather quickly ;D
Numpties.I had a similar problem with the TV licence idiots. I bought a TV card for my PC and had it sent to my home address since it was going to be the Xmas hols. I had to put my address in, obviously to get the damned thing delivered. So you can imagine my fury when the silly boys sent me a letter at Easter saying I hadn't paid for a TV licence at my home address.
No because Mummy already pays for one morons. How they couldn't check the address on the database I don't know. I honestly believe the agency tasked with enforcing this doesn't care and wants to get money out of anyone it can regardless of whether they owe money or not.
Stan_Lite
18-02-2008, 20:06
I honestly believe the agency tasked with enforcing this doesn't care and wants to get money out of anyone it can regardless of whether they owe money or not.
That's certainly what it looks like. Maybe they're banking on people not realising they only need one licence per property and paying up without checking - probably works with some poor sods too.
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 20:09
A bit unscupulous really. I had a TV licence in the first year of Uni, being a good boy and all that! ;)
Don't have one now, why? No reception here. :(
Can't remember what we did about this demand for a payment, I think Mummy rang the pillocks up and told them off in only a way a Mummy can. ;D
I know enough about IT and databases to say with almost 100% conviction (say 99.99% ;)) that the TV licence peeps should be able to cross-reference addresses. So if I put my home address in for getting a TV card delivered, they can check and see that it isn't a multi-occupancy address and that Mummy has already paid so lets not waste a few pennies on a letter to Mr Lister that is only going to get us a stern phone call from his Mummy saying how silly we are. :p
I have problems at work. I have to arrange for every residents room to be listed on the licence. Those over 75 (ie all bar a couple) get it free, under 75 it costs the home £7.50.
Of course, should a tv die it is the handyman who goes out and buys a new one so its his name that comes up on their system. Cue letters for him wanting to know why he doesn't have a licence - grrrr.
TV licensing is a bane to my job!
Stan_Lite
18-02-2008, 20:17
I think Mummy rang the pillocks up and told them off in only a way a Mummy can. ;D
I love it when they do that :D
I'm 42 and my Mam is 66 but I still love watching or listening to her go off on one at some poor unsuspecting jobsworth - my Mam rawks :cool:
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 20:21
Hehe. My Mummy rocks also. :D She reckons she's so timid. I've seen people in banks and shops wish they were in the trenches Belgium during the Great War rather than there where Mummy is. :D
My Mum's sister is so aggressive when she wants to be, so I know my Mum has the genes for it. She just doesn't know it. :p
goldilocks
18-02-2008, 20:45
i pay my tv license by direct debit - to be honest, there's no valid reason not to pay it
if you watch tv - you're using a product, and as such 'owe' for it
you don't expect to get any other 'service' for free, we even pay for the water to flush the loo...
i've never understood why people have such a beef with expected bills...
£129 call out charges for a bt engineer tho - now THAT is robbery :o
Dymetrie
18-02-2008, 20:52
i pay my tv license by direct debit - to be honest, there's no valid reason not to pay it
if you watch tv - you're using a product, and as such 'owe' for it
you don't expect to get any other 'service' for free, we even pay for the water to flush the loo...
i've never understood why people have such a beef with expected bills...
[devils advocate]
But many people pay for their TV service by paying for Digital TV (cable/satelite), and still have to pay again for the TV licence.
[/devils advocate]
Personally I don't mind the TV licence and make full use of the BBC services available (TV, radio, website) and enjoy a lot of the content so am happy to pay what works out as about £11 a month for these things.
I've also never had a problem with TVL trying to track me down and make me pay more.
i pay my tv license by direct debit - to be honest, there's no valid reason not to pay it
if you watch tv - you're using a product, and as such 'owe' for it
you don't expect to get any other 'service' for free, we even pay for the water to flush the loo...
i've never understood why people have such a beef with expected bills..
I think the point here though is that a lot of people don't use the service, yet it appears not to exclude them from the TVLA's naughty list. There is no valid reason for that either :)
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 21:22
I think the point here though is that a lot of people don't use the service, yet it appears not to exclude them from the TVLA's naughty list. There is no valid reason for that either :)That is the big problem. If you don't use a TV for receiving broadcasts or there is already a licence for that address, why are they still bothering people for money? :angry:
we even pay for the water to flush the loo...
We WHAT?! :shocked: For serious? :o
You only pay for the BBC. I'd happily not receive BBC channels and watch commercial/private channels instead. At uni I have to say we never paid for a tv licence, we didn't really watch much tv. The point is you shouldn't HAVE to be threatened if you're not using a service. In their letters they make it seem like an obligatory charge which is bull****.
I dont watch much if any TV at all, I don't have a TV but I do have a TV card.
Given that they cannot legally enter my property without a warrant to check to see if I am watching TV without one, and they cant get a warrant without some proof (which they wont get without entering my property illegally) they can FO really.
Although one did visit me once, and I opened my door and there was the TV I had at the time in plain view. He gave me a big rant about unlicenced blah blah and so I invited him in and made him sit there going through every single channel until he was satisfied it wasn't tuned in. I then hit him with some knowledge about the Wireless Telegraphy Act and he left in a huff. :p
What I now do is collect up all of the TV Licence letters and post them all back to them in once massive bundle to the freepost address given. Must cost them a bloody fortune :p
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 23:06
Just thinking that conceivably one could use TV card for something other than watching TV. :)
And DRZ is right, they need a warrant to get onto your property and I think they'd need a police officer with them to execute it? And they need proof to get a warrant and they get the proof when they get into your property, yet they need a warrant to get in and they need proof to get a warrant. A nice case of which came first, chicken or the egg? :p
What did you hit the guy with about the WTA DRZ? Sounds like something I should learn. :D
And you MUST send the letters back. :D
To add insult to injury, their "scanners" are a crock as well.
MarcLister
18-02-2008, 23:42
Urban legend/myth I've heard. :p
That they are, or that they are not, in fact, a crock of manure?
Faysh has just paid our TV license cos he forgot to change the DD when he changed banks.
To add insult to injury, their "scanners" are a crock as well.
O RLY?
Justsomebloke
19-02-2008, 09:44
To add insult to injury, their "scanners" are a crock as well.
Don't know about that myself. They could find resistance by floating around in little vans in the 40's so i am pretty sure they could sit outside your house & tell whether your telly is on & what channel you are watching.
Most university halls have a policy of not allowing "detector" vans on site. Most helpful!
TBH I've found the licensing people reasonably helpful.
I got the usual letter when I moved into the flat, it had a phone number (irritatingly not a free number tho) to ring if you don't have a TV. Rang it, explained the situation (strangely the woman had to ask a supervisor for advice, surely I'm not the only person without a tv!), then she said fine, and it was possible someone would ask to inspect one day.
A few days later got a letter saying I wouldn't be asked to buy a licence (possibly for 3 years, can't remember), and that I should inform them if my circumstances change. Haven't heard anyhting since, no vists etc. That was about a year ago.
It's only over the last couple of years that I've seen claims from people that TV Detector vans are a myth and don't really exist.
There may well be some 'dummy' vans about that are there to provide a presence but the truth is that there are genuine vans that can detect the presence of television sets simply down to the fact that the LO in a telly works like a little transmitter and that can be detected. It's not exactly rocket science either to detect the presence of a TV. Detecting what it's displaying is a little harder than just knowing that there's one there but again, with the correct equipment it's not really difficult to find and DF it.
To add insult to injury, their "scanners" are a crock as well.
as far as i was aware they do exist, but the evidence obtained from them is not admisable in court.
i've found them helpful enough the times i've delt with them. got a letter a few months after i moved into my flat. phoned them up to say "hi, got a few TVs dont use them for watching TV only DVDs and xbox" they said "fine we might send someone to check" then didn't get anything else from them till i moved out 18 months later.
I'm gonna have to back up my rather glib statement above! My old man knows lots about this, I'll quiz him later :)
i pay my tv license by direct debit - to be honest, there's no valid reason not to pay it
if you watch tv - you're using a product, and as such 'owe' for it
you don't expect to get any other 'service' for free, we even pay for the water to flush the loo...
i've never understood why people have such a beef with expected bills...
I don't think many people have issue with actually paying for it if you're using the service. I don't mind paying my license fee because I watch quality BBC programming. Planet Earth and Top Gear are worth the fee alone IMO. :p It is a service you're receiving directly to your TV and unlike other channels, those expenses aren't recovered by selling advertising space. With BBC content, you get BBC content and that's it. You get "advertisements" about other BBC programming, but I see those more as notifications for upcoming programs tbh. So even though I never like handing my money over, I don't have a "problem" with it.
What my (and others) gripe with them is them badgering those who don't use the service. A television can be used for just games consoles, which is what my mate does. He's an honest bloke and could easily afford a license, but he has no reason to pay for one, he's receiving no signal for BBC content at all. Yet he's bombarded with demands for payment and threats about ending up in court - which is harassment. He was down in the dumps for a little while and received 2 letters demanding money in one month and nearly paid them the fee so he'd be left alone, something I ordered him not to do and urged him to complain about being harassed.
tesco didn't take my details when i bought my TV yesterday :lipsrsealed:
tesco didn't take my details when i bought my TV yesterday :lipsrsealed:
Report them, it's a criminal offence!
It's only over the last couple of years that I've seen claims from people that TV Detector vans are a myth and don't really exist.
There may well be some 'dummy' vans about that are there to provide a presence but the truth is that there are genuine vans that can detect the presence of television sets simply down to the fact that the LO in a telly works like a little transmitter and that can be detected. It's not exactly rocket science either to detect the presence of a TV. Detecting what it's displaying is a little harder than just knowing that there's one there but again, with the correct equipment it's not really difficult to find and DF it.
In your average street though, the power of the extremely weak transmission is going to be barely detectable if at all. With that and the background noise from the other houses in the street and its little wonder its inadmissable.
Justsomebloke
08-03-2008, 15:15
Got me new pre payment card through Yesterday so it is Now Legal to watch TV in my house :p
They've been right reasonable as well & altered my payments rather than demanding a big wedge first :cool:
I'd love the recording of the 29 minute phone call i had with them in the week.
In the end the Doris said to me & I quote " Please can i put the phone down" ;D You Fail i said & You rang me ;D My main phrase that rings back is Bad Karma gets bad Karma me Duck I was Sound before you started messing with me, Now see what you've done. Half way through she admitted she didn't know the law & said she was getting the Supervisor. I said, So why did you ring me then if you cannot sort the problem out, Justify your wages to me then !!! ;D
I could not have been more awkward or a bigger **** if i tried but that's what they get for not being reasonable.
All i could think of was if i was an old biddy living on my own or summit they would have proper done my head in the way they were. Now at least they know that not everybody is going to be intimidated by there bully boy tactics without one of them at least getting some crap back.
I chucked a couple of quid on my card so now i am Officially licenced to watch my Telly even though i never actually watch it as 98% of it these days is repeat & crap.
how did you pay?
by card (maestro) as i tend not to carry that much cash ;D
MarcLister
10-03-2008, 15:00
Doing a 1500 word report on the BBC and TV licences with regards to students for a Uni assignment. Does anyone know where the £1000 fine for people caught without a licence goes? Does the BBC get it or does it go into the Government coffers?
MarcLister
10-03-2008, 15:06
Got the Wiki link. :D
Thanks for the first one though. :D
Most university halls have a policy of not allowing "detector" vans on site. Most helpful!
TBH I've found the licensing people reasonably helpful.
I got the usual letter when I moved into the flat, it had a phone number (irritatingly not a free number tho) to ring if you don't have a TV. Rang it, explained the situation (strangely the woman had to ask a supervisor for advice, surely I'm not the only person without a tv!), then she said fine, and it was possible someone would ask to inspect one day.
A few days later got a letter saying I wouldn't be asked to buy a licence (possibly for 3 years, can't remember), and that I should inform them if my circumstances change. Haven't heard anyhting since, no vists etc. That was about a year ago.
Got a letter today:
To the Legal Occupier:
Some time ago, we were advised that no television equipment was being used to receive TV programmes at this address, and therefore, no licence was required.
Our standard practice ensures that a routine visit will be made to confirm that no type of television reciever is being used at this address. This visit should not take any longer than a few minutes.
If you are still not using television or equipment such as a DVD ir video recorder, digital box or PC's used to recieve TV programmes as they are being broadcast on TV, you needn't take any action - just expect a brief visit from us soon.
Then a load of blurb about buying one if I do watch tele.
Should be interesting if they pop round in the next two weeks as the lounge will be empty for refurbishment!
I never got a letter when I bought my tv last year. Unless it's because I bought it online :dunno:
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