View Full Version : Completely Flumoxed (Computer build)
Dymetrie
18-06-2008, 21:37
Well I have had the week off work and was going to do some fantastic computer rebuilds and upgrades.
*sigh*
First problems I came across were with upgrading my own computer. New case was fine but new HS/F can't be connected to the CPU fan header because there's a capacitor in the way. Then I find I can't install my lovely new X-Fi PCI-E x1 soundcard as the slot is too close to the exhaust from the GFX card would be blocked by the sound card. Finally after the rebuild I find that the bearings on the NB fan are now grinding and making a godawful racket so, as my PC is on 24/7, I've disabled the NB fan until the chip hits 50 degrees (this is working quite well).
Next problem was when I went round to my friend's house today to install the lovely new X1650 AGP GFX card I have bought him. It won't fit. And we're not talking I've bought the wrong thing, or that there isn't enough space... The card will physically not fit. The connector is out by about 3-4mm (hanging over the end of the slot) and there's no way I was going to try and force that thing in as it'd knacker it. So that needs to be returned and I need to see if I can get a replacement which will fit.
Now to the crux of the problem for which I am requesting assistance.
My brother's computer
A few weeks ago it failed, wouldn't boot, nothing. We narrowed down the fault to the motherboard and I managed to find a replacement to buy (it's a socket A chip so not the easiest thing in the world to find in quantity).
Everything was delivered on Monday but I sorted my computer then so Simon's had to wait until Tuesday.
Installed it all and it boots. I then find out that the FSB is jumper controlled (huh?) so in order to get the CPU actually running at the right speed I power down the system, remove the GFX card and switch the jumper. Put the GFX card back in and power back up.
No display.
I went through every test you can think of with that board to try and get it working again, but I received no error beeps and despite my best efforts, no display.
So today I went out and bought another new board and CPU to swap out for the ones which were possibly faulty.
Put it all together (this is now with a new GFX and HDD as well) and power it up.
No display.
Went round to my brother's house and got his old PSU (450watt, more than enough to power the system), wired it up and...
No display.
I now have no idea what's wrong. I have changed every damn component in the system (and have spent out over £100 in the process):
2 CPUs
2 Motherboards
2 Graphics Cards
2 PSUs
2 Hard Drives
5 different sticks of RAM
I am completely flumoxed, and due to the complete cluster**** which has been my week off, am considering retiring from PC repair completely :(
Anyone got any ideas?
Please excuse me if you think I'm stating the obvious...
On the X1650, check the bracket isn't bent. I had a card that point blank refused to go in until I noticed the bottom (motherboard end) of the bracket was bent inwards. Bent it back where it belonged and all was well.
As for the other system, you say you've tried all those hardware combinations, but don't say anything about the monitor or VGA/DVI cable. Did you try swapping those and/or checking for bent pins and FOD (foreign object debris).
Dymetrie
18-06-2008, 22:28
Please excuse me if you think I'm stating the obvious...
On the X1650, check the bracket isn't bent. I had a card that point blank refused to go in until I noticed the bottom (motherboard end) of the bracket was bent inwards. Bent it back where it belonged and all was well.
The card is completely fine other than the fact that when the i/o plate is right up against the back plate it overhangs the slot by a good 3-4mm.
As for the other system, you say you've tried all those hardware combinations, but don't say anything about the monitor or VGA/DVI cable. Did you try swapping those and/or checking for bent pins and FOD (foreign object debris).
The monitor (and cable) has been completely tested, and worked a-ok, on another system. The only thing I haven't done is tried one of my monitors on it, but I shall do this in the morning.
FOD check came up negative :s
The card is completely fine other than the fact that when the i/o plate is right up against the back plate it overhangs the slot by a good 3-4mm.
Seems like a rather serious oversight there. I want to believe there's a logical explanation, except I can't think of one. :dunno:
As for the no graphics, besides the monitor and checking everything is snug in the motherboard socket, I'm not sure. I don't know if there's such a beast as a socket A board with PCI-e, but if there is watch out for motherboard manufacturers doing annoying things with sockets that look like they're PCI-e x16 but aren't. It looks like the X1650 doesn't need a dedicated PSU connector so I'm ruling that one out.
Dymetrie
18-06-2008, 22:51
The original build was an Athlon XP 3000+ with a 9800 pro (AGP), 1GB (only 2 DIMMS) of PC3200 and an ASRock board. It worked first boot then didn't work :s
I replaced it with an Athlon 64 (754) 3000+ with an x1650 (PCI-E), 1GB (only 2 Dimms... again) of PC3200 and an ECS board.
I have 3 sticks of 512MB 3200 which I have tried together and singly, as well as 2 sticks of 512MB PC2100 which I have also tried together and singly.
Power supplies I have tried are an Akasa 460watt box (which used to run my X2 system nicely) and a generic 450watt...
Hard drives have been an ancient 80GB WD (PATA) which has never had any problems and a brand new 200GB Seagate (SATA)...
I'd take everything apart save the CPU and motherboard. Plonk the motherboard on a layer of cardboard (or anything else as long as you're sure it's not power or heat conductive), add PSU, graphics and a stick of RAM, and take it from there. Could be something as simple as the motherboard bottoming out in the case, for example.
Dymetrie
18-06-2008, 23:17
Tried that this morning with the original replacements.
There was absolutely no change :(
Oh and this is the case I've been using for years with 3 different builds....
Texas Chainsaw Massacre it is then. :(
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 07:50
Now tested with another monitor (the one which is there ->) and still nothing.
*waits for Huddy to read this and have a theory*
Take it round Feeks and shout "PULL"
Now tested with another monitor (the one which is there ->) and still nothing.
I am sure I used to have this problem on an old Duron system when I upgraded. The problem always happened when I did a GFX upgrade. Would the mobo happen to have onboard graphics at all ? What I had to do was power down, remove the gfx and then reset the cmos. Reboot with the onboard VGA and then set primary display adapter to AGP slot in BIOS. Power down and install the GFX. Reboot with AGP and it worked.
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 08:53
First power on (when it worked) monitor was plugged into the GFX card and not onboard. Once I changed the FSB jumper couldn't get any output from either card or onboard. Have subsequently cleared CMOS, tried to boot from onboard and card with no joy.
Combine the fact that I've since swapped out the board, the chip, the graphics card, the RAM, the PSU and the monitor and can't get anything I am more than a little disgruntled and confused.
I'd go back to the original board you know worked, albeit briefly, put the jumper back the way it was and try and get that one working.
Unlucky though it would be, if the newer board has never worked, it may just be a dud - plain and simple.
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 08:58
I'd go back to the original board you know worked, albeit briefly, put the jumper back the way it was and try and get that one working.
Unlucky though it would be, if the newer board has never worked, it may just be a dud - plain and simple.
I spent most of Tuesday (and part of Wednesday morning) trying different configurations and whatnot to try and get the first board working :angry:
I spent most of Tuesday (and part of Wednesday morning) trying different configurations and whatnot to try and get the first board working :angry:
Have you tried the new GFX in a working system ? Could be a dud gfx
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 09:09
Have you tried the new GFX in a working system ? Could be a dud gfx
Both GFX cards have been tested in other systems and both work. Both boards also have onboard GFX and I can't get display output from any VGA or DVI connections on the cards or boards.
Admiral Huddy
19-06-2008, 09:19
I've come in rather late on this and I can't seem to make sense of what problems are outstanding? Are you still having problems fitting the card?
As for the display, you have noted you have changed every component.. except... the monitor and monitor lead. Make sure both are working before you look at the PC itself.
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 09:23
The card that won't fit is a different system completely and is down to a shoddily manufactured GFX card which is being sent back...
The problem is the system which won't work even after changing every part....
The problem is the system which won't work even after changing every part....
Have you plugged it in?
Admiral Huddy
19-06-2008, 10:00
The card that won't fit is a different system completely and is down to a shoddily manufactured GFX card which is being sent back...
The problem is the system which won't work even after changing every part....
Is the card dual slot? I've had to modify a case before now to get the card flush with the retention brackets.
Going back to your mates PC, have you tried a different monitor and monitor cable? If the VGA wasn't installed correctly or not working, then you would almost certainly get a POSt error. Make sure you have the case speaker attached.
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 10:05
Is the card dual slot? I've had to modify a case before now to get the card flush with the retention brackets.
It's a single slot X1650 replacing a dual slot X800. It won't fit unless I hacksaw off the rear panel and have it sticking out of the case.
Going back to your mates PC, have you tried a different monitor and monitor cable? If the VGA wasn't installed correctly or not working, then you would almost certainly get a POSt error. Make sure you have the case speaker attached.
My brother's* PC... different monitor, different cable, different cards, different motherboards, different chips, different RAM, different PSU...
Got some POST error beeps when faffing around with it last night but they were sporadic and there was no solid pattern to them (they were claiming a memory fault, but didn't get the error beeps on every boot and swapped out all the RAM using both motherboards. Surely 5 different sticks can't be faulty on 2 different motherboards can they?).
My brother's* PC... different monitor, different cable, different cards, different motherboards, different chips, different RAM, different PSU...
Got some POST error beeps when faffing around with it last night but they were sporadic and there was no solid pattern to them (they were claiming a memory fault, but didn't get the error beeps on every boot and swapped out all the RAM using both motherboards. Surely 5 different sticks can't be faulty on 2 different motherboards can they?).
Is the RAM Compatible with the new mobo ?
Dymetrie
19-06-2008, 10:33
Is the RAM Compatible with the new mobo ?
Both mobo's take 266/333/400.
I have 3 512MB sticks of PC3200 and 2 512MB sticks of PC2100.
Have tried them paired and singly.
Well, I'm going with two faults now - one on each attempted build, and with the dodgy graphics card, that makes your three. I'd suggest asking for refunds and find a different supplier in case the one you're using is passing off DOA kit.
Admiral Huddy
19-06-2008, 11:47
If you have tried different components then I don't know * One does not compute *
I'm wondering if you are setting your memory frequencies too high and/or your timings are wrong. Especially if you are mixing memory types. There could be a confliction from the SPD. Make sure you set the memory settings manually rather than using "Auto".
There must be something common to all the builds that isn't allowing the display. #confused#
Make sure your BIOS is upto date and is running on minimal (diagnostic) settings.
Test also that the mobo is getting the correct power. You may need to test your PSU(s).
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