View Full Version : Is it me or... (possibly NSFW... probably not though)
... should Ann Summers just have not used this as their main promotional picture?!?!?
http://organisers.annsummers.com/images/homepage/HomePage_60.jpg
I know they use raunchy piccies and fit birds and things... but this picture is *awful* IMO. The girl, I am sure, is very pretty but why on EARTH they have used this ribby angle I just don't know!!
I might be being slightly over sensitive on this but the other girls that are in my catalogues *at least* are curvaceous and don't have angular rib poses like this!
This is their main key promotional poster. How poo will this make people feel?!?!
And, to top it all off, what the HECK has she been doing with her phone! :shocked: ;)
I'd be interested to hear peoples response as I am thinking I am being over sensitive <-- though I do deal with these pictures daily and they don't bother me so I'm not sure why I am being so if I am!!
TinkerBell
20-06-2008, 08:31
Those sort of pictures are partly why there are so many woman out there thinking they look rubbish!
When will companies learn that this is not the way to sell items.
Those sort of pictures are partly why there are so many woman out there thinking they look rubbish!
This is true but is also a horrible picture, it isn't sexy or attractive, she looks an odd shape (probably over done air brushing along stomach and back) and it wouldn't encourage me to buy anything
This is true but is also a horrible picture, it isn't sexy or attractive, she looks an odd shape (probably over done air brushing along stomach and back) and it wouldn't encourage me to buy anything
Got to agree... far from any kind of attractive. *shudder*
leowyatt
20-06-2008, 08:57
I agree very odd angle indeed. The Ann Summers models I have seen have had more meat on them.
If she was leaning slightly more forward I don't think we'd have as much of a problem with the picture.
Hmmm. While she certainly is thin she's not unhealthily skinny to me. That doesn't mean you are wrong or being over sensitive, it just means that my view is different!
The only time I have ever complained about ANYTHING is about 9 years ago when there was a poster in the window of Top Shop which showed an incredibly emaciated gaunt girl with a skeletal face who looked the image of Karen Carpenter. I complained because while I think healthily skinny (some people just are naturally tiny!) is ok, someone who doesn't look healthy at all should not be used to promote a certain look to teenage girls.
Can't find a picture of the actual poster I complained about but this is the same model. She has since become what I term 'healthily skinny' but was far bonier than this picture in the actual ad I complained about.
http://www.modelresource.ca/Bios/Shandruk/kat_shandruk_francisco_garcia.jpg
The poster I complained about got taken down as I was not the only person to complain so Top Shop pulled them.
I hadn't seen my girlfriend for 3 weeks when I saw her last weekend and she pointed out I went 'straight for the love handles!' - curves FTW!
http://www.modelresource.ca/Bios/Shandruk/kat_shandruk_francisco_garcia.jpg
She still looks unhealthily skinny to me. I know there are "tiny" and "skinny" people but when looking at her shoulders/underarms its just nasty :/
Those sort of pictures are partly why there are so many woman out there thinking they look rubbish!
When will companies learn that this is not the way to sell items.
Sorry to say that that is where you are wrong. Make people feel **** about themselves but then sell them a wonder product that makes them feel good about themselves. It is the way to sell things.
She still looks unhealthily skinny to me. I know there are "tiny" and "skinny" people but when looking at her shoulders/underarms its just nasty :/
Yes. She is now bigger than that.
TinkerBell
20-06-2008, 09:31
Sorry to say that that is where you are wrong. Make people feel **** about themselves but then sell them a wonder product that makes them feel good about themselves. It is the way to sell things.
That may work on some people. But that does not work on me, I wouldn't look at that poster and think yeah that makes me want to go and buy loads of stuff to make me feel better. Just my opinion :p
She needs a few steak dinners inside of her really.
That may work on some people. But that does not work on me
I think the problem is that it works on the majority....so unfortunately everybody else is lumbered with it too.
It's not just women though, it's society in general. We're made to feel lesser if we don't have the latest car, motorbike, flat screen TV, hifi, games console, yadda yadda yadda. It's the way marketing works these days and we're all stuc with it.
But I would say women get the worst deal overall.
tbh I think it's about time Ann Summers threw in some larger models into their catalogue. In general - the vast majority of my customers are not widgy widgy sizes and pretty much every party I hold at least one person makes comments similar to:
"Ha! Like I'm going to fit or look good in any of these items"
The vast majority of my time I spend plugging items which do look good on the larger lady. They all want items that will look sexy - not silly and string-esque on them. Items I point out are the ones which "hold everything together - and comfortably", "shove the boobie up" "Hide the lumps and bumps buuut reveals the belly button for some sexiness", "slim up your legs" etc...
I wouldn't get half the sales I do if I didn't plug those points... and sometimes it's really hard to find ladies anything they would be comfortable in. A couple have laughed and joked about it but in their eyes you see them just wanting to feel better about themselves - some have even admitted buying things in the past to feel like they fit in to the parties and never wearing it. I really hate that. So I make a point of ensuring everyone is super happy with their items.
But. They would be so much happier - I am 100% convinced - if there were larger models in the brochure. I am certain.
Davey_Pitch
20-06-2008, 09:52
But I would say women get the worst deal overall.
I would agree. Men very rarely get hammered for the way they look (their bodies at least), certainly not to the extent women do. It's just a shame women listen to it all so much. Curvy women are super sexy in my eyes. Hell, I love looking through the Bravissimo catalouge Lynnie gets, the women in there are stunning :D
I would agree. Men very rarely get hammered for the way they look (their bodies at least), certainly not to the extent women do. It's just a shame women listen to it all so much. Curvy women are super sexy in my eyes. Hell, I love looking through the Bravissimo catalouge Lynnie gets, the women in there are stunning :D
Yeah, I bet it happens to just 'fall open' on page 164.....
semi-pro waster
20-06-2008, 18:03
This might run counter to the majority but I think she is an attractive girl. However it is a slightly unfortunate pose leaning back but thrusting her chest forwards and that makes her look more angular than she otherwise would.
The really terrible thing is that the model probably gets hassle for her body as well, it isn't just those with a larger frame who get stick for the way they look. I get people commenting on my height or the fact that I'm slim, 99.9% of the time it doesn't bother me in the least but every so often I just end up thinking "who are you to be making a disparaging comment on my body, I've not insulted you - yet".
Hell, I love looking through the Bravissimo catalouge Lynnie gets, the women in there are stunning :D
Hehe, so does Leon! :D
goldilocks
21-06-2008, 10:48
... should Ann Summers just have not used this as their main promotional picture?!?!?
I know they use raunchy piccies and fit birds and things... but this picture is *awful* IMO. The girl, I am sure, is very pretty but why on EARTH they have used this ribby angle I just don't know!!
I might be being slightly over sensitive on this but the other girls that are in my catalogues *at least* are curvaceous and don't have angular rib poses like this!
This is their main key promotional poster. How poo will this make people feel?!?!
Pheebs, are you in the right job?!
I'm sure you've seen the tiny models in the windows of the shops, you know they sell down to 28" bra sizes, they don't stock every product in 'large' - if a rather slim, but non-the-less attractive woman is going to offend you / your customers, will you struggle to sell what they are advertising?
i don't see how advertising is like this is in any way offensive, and i don't see why it would make people feel like 'poo'.
if you aren't built like an underwear model (and lets face it, there aren't that many who are) does that mean you won't buy underwear if you've only seen it advertised on slim woman?
advertisements for leg wax / rasers / deodorant all use slim / attractive women - and that doesn't stop most of the adult female population still buying wax / razers / deo.
as has been mentioned above - advertising won't improve a low self image perception - if you feel fat / wobbly / bloated - why will seeing larger women modeling underwear make you feel any better about that?
i think the issue with things like this has to be confidence. imo it doesn't matter what you look like / what size you are as long as you are happy in your own skin.
we know most of the female population aren't size 6/8 and 6 feet tall - but that doesn't stop the fact that they *do* make better clothes horses for showing off such items.
/controversy
goldilocks
21-06-2008, 11:23
Goldilocks - are you reading the right posts?
I can see nowhere that Pheebs said that she or her customers were offended by the model.
then why make a post like this on how *awful* the front of the catalogue is?
I have no idea what size you are, but from your post I imagine you're a fairly slim size (believe me, it's just an attitude thing) - so how do you expect to be able to see that this kind of advertising can make a larger woman feel 'poo'?
in the same way that *i* can see this advert and think, 'well, i don't look like that, my boobs aren't that big, and if i were to wear that underwear it probably won't make me look any different to the way i look in the mirror every day - but it is pretty, and it is nicer than old scruffy back of the draw undies that i own now - maybe i should read this catalogue and see if there is anything more appropriate'
So lets say a larger lady looks in the Ann Summers catalogue and wants to buy a nice sexy outfit to wear with her partner. Seeing photographs of women looking like the one above will just make her thing 'that will look crap on me, that will look crap on me, that will look crap on me'. You can't put it all down to low self esteem and image perception, if you're a size 22 the chances are it WILL Look crap on you, that's nothing to do with your own image, it's a fact.
So, by putting something on the front of the magazine that might have a chance of looking good on both skinny and larger ladies - i.e. a pretty negligie which pushes up and out and covers bits you don't want to see, then it will appeal to more women of different sizes, won't completely alienate the ones that will look rubbish in what is on the front.
is that what advertising is about? there was me thinking that it was about showing off your products to their full advantage.
i agree that showing a more covering and discreet item on the cover may appeal to more customers - but since when have discreet / anne summers gone hand in hand?
THAT is the point that Pheebs is making - that it WONT sell undies to the majority of her customers - not that it's offensive - and it's funny that most of the women who have responded in agreement to her are ones who are on the larger side, and it suggests to me that she knows exactly what she's talking about.
if they are not upset / offended by this - then why are they not buying?
if it is purely that they won't fit in them - or look good in them - that is not the catalogues fault... and i doubt that any sort of advertising would improve pheebs' sales. what you are talking about now - is product range and availability - not the way it is advertised.
goldilocks
21-06-2008, 11:47
there is nothing more i can really say on this matter - you can tell me that i have no commercial knowledge of advertising, and no idea what it feels like to be a size 22 woman looking through a catalogue of slim women - both of which are true.
but imo the woman on the cover looks good - she wears the clothes well - she has brought attention to the advert - job done?!
semi-pro waster
21-06-2008, 12:07
You said what you believed to be the aim, and I told you what I believed it to be.Not sure how that's telling you you have no commercial experience of marketing. :/
In your last sentence of the previous post you do say that you've got plenty of experience with marketing campaigns. I'm sure it was not intended as bragging (for want of a better word) but it could possibly come across as slightly dismissive based on your greater knowledge.
LeperousDust
21-06-2008, 12:21
Tbh it boils down to what works, and they spend enough money on advertising and have enough experience themselves to know what works. Bottom line is, this way it must sell more money en masse, otherwise they'd do it another way.
Although one cool way would be to have a few secret catalogues, only delivered to the the representatives that are the same with varying size models, and its up to pheebs to get out the appropriate catalogue when shes there. Although this would eventually be "discovered" and probably cause scandal and more hassle than its worth. So were back to square one :)
Surely part of the idea of that image is to sell the seductive side of the product, and an image that a lot of woman would like to have (deep down, or deep deep down). The idea that by wearing that product you are in some ways getting the same sexiness/appeal as the model in the poster.
I understand that only a minority of women in this country are that size and not arguing that a main part of their customer will need a larger size. I don't see that poster as putting the larger size ladies off, that poster says "buy me (the product), you can look like me". In the contrary, If they had put someone with the national average size wearing the same product, they wouldn't have sell as much and it makes no business sense even if its the more realistic representation thing to do.
It is the same idea that using pretty people to sell holidays, yogurt, mineral water and everything on TV. People see pretty people and by getting that product you are buying into that image.
Why the need for extremes though that is what I find a bit odd. Why not go for a more natural looking model, who is a healthy weight and women can still relate to? Big or small I don't see women having problems with women with normal figures like these:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/Muban/ka61bla_lp.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/Muban/fy14nub_lp.jpg
I don't think the picture in the OP is anywhere near as attractive as it could be, neither do I think her unattractive. I do think though that it could put some people off. Yes I know people should read the whole catalogue (perhaps there are better pictures within it?). But if we are talking marketing, lets face it the most important picture is the one on the front.
EDIT: Of course it is all down to what you personally find attractive as well, but I think their figures put across a far more sexy image.
May be the theme of that ad is what is there, not "natural" or be representational of the national average (like the M&S one). I doubt they set out to create every ad campaign to think of what the mindset of the average size lady thinks of the image it puts out. It is probably more like "do you think this looks sexy? rather than " do you think women who are not this size will find this offensive?"
And money will always comes first, they know that sex sells, like it or not, people like to be thin. I am not advocating stick thin but in general, most people would like to lose a pound here or there, bit form the tummy, pound from the thigh....etc It is just what works in an ad, it has been like that pretty much since television came along.
I think there are people here missing the point. I am talking from a point of view of sales only too. And where do people keep getting the term offensive from? :p They are also selling to mostly women remember too not to men.
I just don't think the picture in the OP comes across as sexy really. I don't think it's a picture that would entice women to buy. Surely that is what they want more than anything, women to want to buy their product?
EDIT: If you are referring to the pics i posted they aren't M&S :P and they aren't representational of the national average either, they are slimmer than the national average.
goldilocks
21-06-2008, 15:08
Offensive:
causing anger or annoyance
unsavory: morally offensive
unpleasant or disgusting
Reading what people have been writing on here - the picture obviously 'offends'.
Pheebs used the word *awful*, other people have called it horrible, unattractive, and unhealthy.
In what way does that come across as 'positive' or 'pleasant'?
It's just a word!
How can people 'miss the point' on something which is based primarily on opinions?
Some people think the lady is attractive and some don't, some people think it is a good advert, and others dont.
Personally - I don't find the pictures Muban has posted attractive, but that is because I don't look like that, and don't wish or aim to look like that. (As such, I wouldn't buy underwear which 'suggested' that that is how it would make me look/feel)
If you are selling an item by selling the 'attractive lifestyle' I would go for skinny and busty (AS rather than M&S) every time. (from a sales point of view only)
I don't think anyone here needs dictionary term explained to them. I was going to write a reply, but it seems here today everything is getting taken out of context. Probably by both sides too, so I am going to stand aside and let everyone else discuss it :)
goldilocks
21-06-2008, 15:35
Muban, it feels unlikely to me that any healthy discussion can ever take place about such a touchy subject (i.e. women / appearance / weight / attractiveness).
I never post in order to cause offense or to sound harsh, but I think it is important to have a balance of opinions. (especially when it all seemed to be weighted against what i think!!)
The reason i posted the definition (without wishing to cause annoyance) was because both yourself and Kitten picked up on it - i think people tend to see the word as being very personal, when it is (in the context i was using it) just a blanket term to cover the derision people seem to have against the image.
If i hadn't posted - the thread (so far) would have suggested that 100% of women want larger / curvier girls to advertise / model. I don't believe this is the case. (see previous, etc)
If my posts have annoyed - I am sorry.
I think it looks fine personally, certainly not awful anyway. If I lean back at that angle you can see the outline of the bottom of my ribcage too and I'm far from skinny!
You can't see that models actual ribs poking through - that's the point I start thinking "Hmm, bit skinny perhaps".
ie like Michelle Trachtenberg looked in Eurotrip:
http://thebosh.com/archives/upload/2006/10/michelle_trachtenberg_2.jpg
I REALLY like the pics that Muban posted - that to me is the epitome of a perfect shape for a woman. But I love curves and don't like skinny stick insects.
The picture that Pheebs posted isn't all that flattering and she doesn't look that sexy to me, certainly not compared to Mub's pics. However I don't find it offensive or vulgar, just not very flattering at all, and the angle is crap too.
Wow... debate!
Goldilocks - I understand what you're saying and it's very much a marmite-esque debate... some will think as you do (it's a fine picture) and others will think the opposite.
You just have to understand that it's a fact that *A LOT* of people just feel rubbish when looking at pictures of beanpoles in underwear... they feel they can't be like that and thus the underwear would look pants on them (haha! Pants!) and not buy them. It's sad and frustrating - I am exactly the same. I put on bikinis and think "OH DEAR GOD I don't look like these attractive women that are supposed to wear bikinis" and therefore cover up as I don't feel good about myself feeling I'm not on parr with the girls and therefore shouldn't wear it/won't be sexy in it.
Bras and bikinis advertised in say, Bravissimo, make me feel 100% better to begin with because... I don't feel so abnormal as these models who are larger... look good in their underwear.
Now I'm really not saying everyone thinks like this but so so soooooo many do. Every party I hear the same kind of line I mentioned above "OMG I would look awful in that - only skinny people could get away with it" and I am *ALWAYS* asked about larger sizes and whether they look good/hide handles/pull in the tummy/push up the boobs/keeps your boobs in one place.
I swear, hand on heart, if they had larger models I would flog many more items. In fact, the new catalogue has a couple of items that go up to a G... and the model they use has HUGE norks. Fantastic of Ann Summers to do that, however, they've cocked up again as the sizes are stupid and thoughtless... One sec I'll type them out:
REGULAR SIZE
8 - A/B
10/12 - B/C
14/16 - C/D
18/20 - D/DD
22/24 - DD/E
+SIZE
8+ - C/D
10/12+ - D/DD
14/16+ - DD/E
18/20+ - E/F
22/24+ - F/G
For starters, they've immediately classified those with larger norks as a "+" size and not "regular", which can make people feel a bit "meh". Secondly, they're using weird sizing! I am a 32 E... so to suit my E cup, I would need to go for 14/16 - which is too big! It's such a shame as they were sooo nearly hitting the nail on the head by using a big norked lady looking sexy, but they've ruined it by the sizing! *rollseyes*.
Back to the original piccie though, I am not saying it's a vile picture, I am not saying I'm massively offended by it but it's a bad picture to have as their main promotional poster/fronts of catalogues as the likes of me will just go "Oh fab, fanbloomingtastic, to be attractive I have to be so skinny that when I lean back my ribs are quite evident". It doesn't make me want to buy the product at all. Their last picture was much better... wait a sec... here it is:
http://www.annsummers.com/wcsstore/AnnSummers/images/AnnSummers/ASPRODUCT_IMAGES/01SRCIAS1012_M.jpg
I have sold *SooOOOOoOOoOO* many of these. The majority have bought them because it covers lumps and bumps BUT still remains sexy. The girl is attractive buuut she doesn't look like the other one by a million miles.
And as for whether it's the right job for me I do a blooming good one when in it because I am very aware of how sensitive people are and due to my honesty on products and approach I have a long list of regulars and make muchos monies. My job - is to make women happy and feel sexy and comfortable in what they wear. Ann Summers... makes that hard for me at times :)
(Oh yeh - made over £100 yesternight at a party :cool: For two hours work... I can't complain. Oh... and they've already booked 3 more parties and put in orders for those ones! *YAY*!)
Davey_Pitch
22-06-2008, 11:35
I REALLY like the pics that Muban posted - that to me is the epitome of a perfect shape for a woman. But I love curves and don't like skinny stick insects.
Snap, I think the blonde is simply stunning.
The picture that Pheebs posted isn't all that flattering and she doesn't look that sexy to me, certainly not compared to Mub's pics. However I don't find it offensive or vulgar, just not very flattering at all, and the angle is crap too.
Agreed again. Ribs aren't very sexy, but she does look like a pretty girl, and it's definitely a bad angle.
No wonder you're speshul ;)
To be fair, the girl in the red pic is just as skinny, you can clearly see her ribs in that picture. It is just the angles and I doubt the girl in the first pic is anymore thinner than the blonde one.
As for people feeling bad about looking a models much thinner than they are are feeling down about it because they will never look like that, I really don't think the have that in mind when they shot the ad, and I doubt they ever will, not a company like Ann Summers anyway.
goldilocks
22-06-2008, 17:01
To be fair, the girl in the red pic is just as skinny, you can clearly see her ribs in that picture. It is just the angles and I doubt the girl in the first pic is anymore thinner than the blonde one.
absolutely - if pheebs sold plenty of the red, and now less of the black - it's just the item, and not the 'slim' model which is so-say causing the customers to be put off purchasing.
and as i've said - that is an issue with the product and not with advertising.
You can see the girls ribs in the red and she doesn't look as bad cos of the position she's in and also because she's covered up unlike the 1st pic.
I think the girls mub's posted are far sexier and if they was wearing the lingerie then it'd look far better than the skinny girls.
Women are meant to have curves.
LeperousDust
22-06-2008, 17:05
Off the path o debate, well bloody done pheebs, sounds like you're getting right into the AS party scene! Nice to hear :)
Thanks Lep - I don't do too badly :)
The red picture one is a smaller version and although looks like the ladies ribs are poking out it's actually a ruffle in the cami :) (the catalogue piccie is muchos bigger so you can see that)
Okay. I'm going to put this plain and simply as I think my message isn't coming across right.
The pictures similar to the OP picture makes *A LOT* of people feel crap about themselves.
Fact.
These people have stood there, in front of me and exclaimed they will *NOT* buy the item as they will never look like the model in alike pictures/good in the item.
Fact.
I believe this is because they cannot visualize themselves in the item, so I ensure I have ordered their size in before the party in a couple of items and then get them to try it on. This - pretty much guarantees sales. Why? Because they can see it is a gorgeous item and they can look good in it. If they did have some larger sized models then there wouldn't be such a fight to get people to feel like they will look good.
This is my opinion judging on sales and comments experienced in the past 4 months with Ann Summers.
Pictures like the OP make *A LOT* of these people feel like they have to be super skinny to be attractive.
Fact.
I have heard countless people stating that "if only" Ann Summers had larger sized models in bras/undies/camis/suspenders etc, they would feel better about it and more inclined to purchase it. (Like Bravissimo catalogues do)
Fact.
People who tend to say the above often have the mentality that they shouldn't bother participating with the first part of the party (I go through the clothes first and then the vibes after) and generally feel uncomfortable about it all.
Fact.
Ann Summers should take into consideration these type of people more often as their job is to please women and make them feel great. Using this as their front cover picture really doesn't help and thus is a poor choice in advertising.
I am very much aware that you can never please everyone, but this isn't a happy medium in my eyes.
If anyone wants proof of the above they're more than welcome to join me at a couple of my parties and ask the people themselves! Either that or become an Ann Summers rep and then you may understand what I am up against.
NB. You *will* be asked to model though and take part in squirty cream and banana games :p
Piggymon
22-06-2008, 18:01
Did someone say cream and bananas ;)
Did someone say cream and bananas ;)
I can throw in some chocolate fingers too if you wish?! ;)
Kell_ee001
22-06-2008, 18:11
eeewwwww!
;D
Piggymon
22-06-2008, 18:29
I can throw in some chocolate fingers too if you wish?! ;)
SOLD !
goldilocks
22-06-2008, 18:39
If anyone wants proof of the above they're more than welcome to join me at a couple of my parties and ask the people themselves! Either that or become an Ann Summers rep and then you may understand what I am up against.
NB. You *will* be asked to model though and take part in squirty cream and banana games :p
i would not enjoy the task of selling anne summers items to anyone, no matter what their size. i do not envy you your task - i can't imagine how difficult it is to convince any woman that buying AS underwear will make them 'feel great' if they don't already.
no matter what your experience is 'in the job' anne summers is a profitable company - a quick google search (and i'm sure you already know this) shows that they made £117.3 million in the tax year 07-08. to me that does not suggest they are an unsuccessful company, their advertising obviously works.
you could argue that if they used larger models it could be twice that revenue - but why fix something that isn't broken and *risk* it having the opposite effect?
you mention bravissimo - they ONLY sell underwear etc for the more generously busted / sized women, they are a lingerie shop - not a sex shop. as such their marketing will be very different.
I've just zoomed in on the pic of girl in red and it still looks like ribs to me :/
I still don't think its overly sexy and would look far better if the girl had curves.
Considering the whole size 0 problem girls have i think using a woman of a size 10 would be much better not a size 6-8.
Piggymon
22-06-2008, 19:52
I'm a size 6-8 and I have curves ta very much ! :p
I'm a size 6-8 and I have curves ta very much ! :p
I didn't say all women that are a size 6-8 aren't curvy :p
I don't need proof pheebs, i believe you. But i have to ask, with risk of sounding insensitive. Why do women take it negatively when they see thin models? Why take it personally, sounds to me they need to take a step back and be happy of who they are and have confidence in their size than being put off simply by a model. I know i am never going to look like that calvin klein underwear model on the box but it never stop me buying their boxers. I know i don't look like that but why should i care?
Piggymon
22-06-2008, 19:58
yeah but you're about 4ft tall :p It's when they are stretched out over 6ft or so that the curves disappear.
4ft 11 and a HALF if you don't mind ;) ;D
I've just zoomed in on the pic of girl in red and it still looks like ribs to me :/
I still don't think its overly sexy and would look far better if the girl had curves.
Considering the whole size 0 problem girls have i think using a woman of a size 10 would be much better not a size 6-8.
I'm a size 6-8 and I have curves ta very much ! :p
Where did i say 6-8 sized women don't have curves? unless that was directed at someone else piggy? confused??
Piggymon
22-06-2008, 20:06
You said it would look better if the woman had curves and then said it would have been better if they used a size 10 model instead of a size 6 - 8 which implied that women of that size don't have curves
Don't worry, was only kidding with you :)
I see where the confusion is now. that isn't what I meant though.
I know you wasn't being serious hun :D but some people might get me wrong.
Why take it personally, sounds to me they need to take a step back and be happy of who they are and have confidence in their size than being put off simply by a model. I know i am never going to look like that calvin klein underwear model on the box but it never stop me buying their boxers. I know i don't look like that but why should i care?
In this day and age where eating disorders are so common, is it any wonder that us women get naffed off with the tiny stick insects the fashion industry like to call models? And the fact that they seem to take delight in airbrushing them to make them look even thinner sometimes?
I've had eating problems myself. I tried so hard to be anorexic. I couldnt do it, so I turned to bullimia. My Mum knew about it, infact it was her idea. She spent most of her late teens and twenties surviving on a pint of milk a day.
I want my 4 year old daughter to grow up with a healthy idea of what a woman is. And I want my son to as well. That size doesnt matter, it's health and happiness that matters. And I was very proud of my daughter when she came to me and asked if her barbie doll was capable of eating 'because mummy, she looks like she hasnt had enough to eat' and I lol'd when she mentioned the fact that barbie's nipples had fallen off.
I want them both to have a healthy self image.
I'm not about to disclose what size clothes I wear. But I want to make it clear that I have my moments of being damn sexy. I also have my moments of feeling bleurgh. I own items of clothing from anne summers, and I look and feel damn sexy when I wear them.
Exactly, you need a good self image and don't let these ads, magazine covers get to you. I mean who cares they use size 0 model to sell mineral water. Be yourself.
It's not that easy when it's constantly shoved in your face though Mondo. Don't worry, the men are starting to get it in the magazines now so we'll be under the same pressure :p
Some of us won't care, in the same way that a lot of women don't. But many will...and the stronger the image becomes, the more men will care.
I was walking through town on Saturday and heard a young girl (probably 10-12) saying to her friend that her sisters mate is a size 0. I find it quite shocking that girls of that age even care to think about sizes let alone actually care about it.
i would not enjoy the task of selling anne summers items to anyone, no matter what their size. i do not envy you your task - i can't imagine how difficult it is to convince any woman that buying AS underwear will make them 'feel great' if they don't already.
no matter what your experience is 'in the job' anne summers is a profitable company - a quick google search (and i'm sure you already know this) shows that they made £117.3 million in the tax year 07-08. to me that does not suggest they are an unsuccessful company, their advertising obviously works.
you could argue that if they used larger models it could be twice that revenue - but why fix something that isn't broken and *risk* it having the opposite effect?
you mention bravissimo - they ONLY sell underwear etc for the more generously busted / sized women, they are a lingerie shop - not a sex shop. as such their marketing will be very different.
(sorry but "Ann Summers" not "Anne" :p ;))
Please don't get me wrong, I am aware they're a successful company and mentioned bravissimo as an example... there are plenty of other brands that use real sized models (Dove is a prime example!). I am not saying the picture on the front cover should be a larger model either... I just think that they picked a poor picture considering the range of photos they have of that girl (there are more of her in the catalogue where she looks *stunning* and her ribs aren't all pokey outey)
Two things I don't quite understand. Yes, Ann Summers is in main part of the sex industry... and you mention risk... but by using a couple of "larger" sized models to demonstrate their larger sizes in their brochures... how would that be a risk? It's not like "larger" models don't have sex appeal! And this is the exact problem... by not using larger models it suggests that they don't have sex appeal, thus making people who are "larger" feel like poo!
I don't need proof pheebs, i believe you. But i have to ask, with risk of sounding insensitive. Why do women take it negatively when they see thin models? Why take it personally, sounds to me they need to take a step back and be happy of who they are and have confidence in their size than being put off simply by a model. I know i am never going to look like that calvin klein underwear model on the box but it never stop me buying their boxers. I know i don't look like that but why should i care?
I don't take all pictures negatively at all :) If you look back at my OP I do say I see a lot of other pictures of... pretty much naked women... and I don't see anything wrong with them! I am just against this one so much! It's a really poor choice. Really Reeallly poor choice!
I cannot speak for everyone who feel pretty darn rubbish when they look at "perfect" models... but it's just a thing a lot of people do. I do it. Not all the time as it's part of my job and so I have to be numb to it. But aside from my job I do it an awful lot. I know plenty of other girls who do it too. It is very much a confidence thing... something a lot of ladies lack when it comes to their bodies. And it's hard not to do so when every blooming where you look there's always some skinny lady advertising something, some film star who OH-DEAR-GOD has cellulite or has gained a tremendous 5 POUNDS! I mean, look how tubby they look from their normal size 0! ... Heh... I'm being a bit melodramatic here but it is very much in ladies faces everywhere they turn. I'm not saying men don't have to suffer it either, but they don't exactly have sexy lingerie parties and items they can dress up in to woo their women! I mean hmmm... pvc thongs and willy warmers that neigh ;D! They also have OODLES of successful and well loved role models who are not gorgeous styled hunks (Jack Black for example - he's a God) where as us women are lacking in that area (I can only think of Dawn French and Jo Brand - both fab :)).
From an Ann Summers perspective, I think that if I don't have it on my rail in a larger size than what's in the catalogue, people have to try and visualize themselves in that item, which means comparing themselves to the picture and ends up having a negative reaction.
I can't really explain more than that... it's just... how I feel and a lot of others feel too. :)
Surely also there are more women of normal average sizes than skinny ugly things? As a man I'd rather be enticed with a curvy woman than a stick insect - then again I'd probably break them :p
Men are starting to feel the pressure too - I may be a sucker for it with the time that I spend at the gym, but at least it's *starting* to make me feel better about myself... However I'm still not happy, and it's because of all the chinese whispers or media stipulation that men need a six pack, no body hair, funky styled hair and possibly a couple of other things. I feel more often than not very average in terms of looks, but feel I make up for it a little with the hard work I do at the gym - it sort of helps me. I then removed some bodyhair which was causing me issues - again it boosted me a little... but ultimately it's deep down that I have to address the issue.
It's the same with models and advertising, they will glamourise it to make it more appealing and noticeable. We compare things - it's human nature, we compare what we have with others, we compare 2 things or many things to other things. And if we see a flaw we can't help but keep our mind on it. Perfection is very hard for us humans to achieve or accept - in fact I believe it's impossible, but something to strive for, but healthier to accept a high standard rather than any more. Acceptance doesn't have to mean that you think you're ugly/fat/skinny whatever... it means that with what you've got you're going to do the best you can with and try and be happy with it. That' the biggest hurdle. It doesn't matter if someone is not to your thinking/taste because they will be to someone else's.
The OP is not a flattering picture to many in though it will appeal to some, but sometiems they get it right. Whether ot not people are upset by it that's never going to be rectified, it's always going to be subjective, and this sort of thing is always going to be designed to be a little on the edge - makes it more interesting and compelling selling.
The girl in the OP is hot. That is all.
TinkerBell
23-06-2008, 19:01
I have to say for me (having extra baggage), I find it very hard to look at that picture and even imagine me wearing that, let alone feeling sexy in it, yes she is a very nice looking girl, but the picture is meant to want people feel good about themself and go and buy it, that picture would put me off buying it, let alone looking through the brochure!
I know there are loads of people on here who disagree with me, and think that it is a great advertisement, but then again the people who have critized are either Men or aren't a larger woman! Not that your opinion doesn't count before you all pounce :p
Pumpkinstew
23-06-2008, 19:59
The debate may have moved on a bit now but the first thing I noticed in the picture in the OP was the eyes. Really dark and sultry, then the slightly pouty lips, then the chunky gems rolling down through the push up bra and cleavage and I didn't really look at much else after that.
I read through Pheebs post and went 'Phone? Was there? Oh, yeah.' :o
Maybe it was the image that had the greatest impact in other areas and unfortunately also appears to stress the ribs.
I had made a few little design changes that I think might work. Maybe you could forward on to Ann Summers for me Pheebs? Ta.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1351/homepage60ammendedog7.jpg
Why are women incapable of ignoring the media "pressure"?
The way I see it, women LOVE to feel like they have something to strive towards - generally speaking here. If that wasn't the case, why do MILLIONS of you buy magazines like Closer and Grazia and Cosmo and all that bull****? You buy it and then feel like crap because you look at it - and then go out and buy another one or next months issue or whatever anyway!
Cynical as it may be, these magazines show you exactly what you want to see in order to make money. If you hated it, you wouldn't buy it and they would go bust. The fact they are still in business speaks volumes.
The woman in that photo is HOT. The two women Muban posted are also quite sexy. Pheebs, you are entirely attractive and have nothing to be paranoid about! Absolutely nothing at all!
Hehehe, I know, I know.
I wonder how much those publishing companies make though? Must be quite a lot and that was my point really - the prevailing attitude from the girlies in this thread is that they hate women being portrayed as thin, yet the average woman (what I would consider to be like the Dove adverts) still has a HUGE complex about their weight and buys them anyway?
Why can't you just be happy with who you are?
I get told I am fat and need to lose weight and all sorts on a daily basis but somehow I am not a gibbering wreck!
Well I look just like the girl in the OP* so I'm happy**
*This isn't true ;)
** This is
:D
*cuddles*
Why are women incapable of ignoring the media "pressure"?
The way I see it, women LOVE to feel like they have something to strive towards - generally speaking here. If that wasn't the case, why do MILLIONS of you buy magazines like Closer and Grazia and Cosmo and all that bull****? You buy it and then feel like crap because you look at it - and then go out and buy another one or next months issue or whatever anyway!
Cynical as it may be, these magazines show you exactly what you want to see in order to make money. If you hated it, you wouldn't buy it and they would go bust. The fact they are still in business speaks volumes.
The woman in that photo is HOT. The two women Muban posted are also quite sexy. Pheebs, you are entirely attractive and have nothing to be paranoid about! Absolutely nothing at all!
Good intentions, only misplaced and misworded here ;) (Well, from my experience at least.)
To be honest I find 90% of the catalogue a joke. The prices certainly don't match the quality and (without wanting to cause offense) the garments look atrocious 'in the flesh' (excuse the pun). e.g one day clare showed me an order, and a twig (striped of the bark) and bent into a hook was £7!! You could see the fibers in the wood already pealing away where it had been dried far too quickly!
If I was going to buy some clothing (saucy or practical) and was going to spend that kind of money, I really wouldn't go anywhere near Ann Summers, so why they insist on putting cover pictures of their clothing range is beyond me. IMO its all about the toys, so the cover should be an a4 picture of a prize battery powered dong surrounded by sparklies every time. :D
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 20:51
IMO its all about the toys, so the cover should be of a prize battery powered dong surrounded by sparklies every time. :D
Pickers for PM !!! ;D
Pickers for PM !!! ;D
Prestigious Member? (oh the connotations!)
IMO its all about the toys, so the cover should be an a4 picture of a prize battery powered dong surrounded by sparklies every time. :D
;D
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 20:54
Prestigious Member? (oh the connotations!)
Indeed ! :shocked: ;)
This is one of the reasons why I don't buy magazines anymore, but unfortunately little old me isn't going to change the industry :(.
All photos are hugely photoshopped nowadays nothing is real - you just have to bear this in mind.
That is a hideous picture though in the OP.
BB x
a twig (striped of the bark) and bent into a hook
Where the hell are you supposed to shove that? :shocked:
As a skinny person and I know this is going to get a lot of backs up but I'm going to say it anyway I'm sick of the acceptance of people getting grossly fat in this country and yes what's the average size is increasing but it shouldn't be used as a benchmark for what people's weight should be. I think it's ridiculous that they do 48GG bras in M&S and they are proud of it. No, that's a ridiculously large size and by putting it in the mainstream makes it acceptable somehow. When you reach the point that you're too big to buy clothes it should ring some ****ing bells that maybe you're ridiculously overweight, not highstreet stores justifying you by making ridiculously sized clothes.
That rant aside I saw nothing wrong with that picture. It didn't even register that it was 'ribby', in fact I can't see any ribs in that picture. If you want to see ribs then lift my shirt up because I have ribs and I'm bloody well proud of them.
For the most part women who feel they look rubbish DO look rubbish because they are fat and lazy and sit around in the office eating biscuits and sweets all day and don't actually want to do anything about it. I see it every day of the week in my own office. They are quite happy to sit there moaning about it and how they are being undermined by images like that rather than do something about it. I'm sure many of them looked like that when they were 18/19/20 but the ravages of laziness, lack of exercise, pies, cakes and letting themselves go in front of their other halfs got the better of them.
I'm not one to speak because I've put on 1/2 stone from sitting in the office doing the same but I'm not going to try and come up with excuses, it's my own laziness.
Where the hell are you supposed to shove that? :shocked:
why do things have to be shoved anywhere? Oh, incidently, I found a lone rubber test tube bung frozen at the back of the school fridge today... I thought of you ;)
As a skinny person and I know this is going to get a lot of backs up but I'm going to say it anyway I'm sick of the acceptance of people getting grossly fat in this country and yes what's the average size is increasing but it shouldn't be used as a benchmark for what people's weight should be. I think it's ridiculous that they do 48GG bras in M&S and they are proud of it. No, that's a ridiculously large size and by putting it in the mainstream makes it acceptable somehow. When you reach the point that you're too big to buy clothes it should ring some ****ing bells that maybe you're ridiculously overweight, not highstreet stores justifying you by making ridiculously sized clothes.
That rant aside I saw nothing wrong with that picture. It didn't even register that it was 'ribby', in fact I can't see any ribs in that picture. If you want to see ribs then lift my shirt up because I have ribs and I'm bloody well proud of them.
For the most part women who feel they look rubbish DO look rubbish because they are fat and lazy and sit around in the office eating biscuits and sweets all day and don't actually want to do anything about it. I see it every day of the week in my own office. They are quite happy to sit there moaning about it and how they are being undermined by images like that rather than do something about it. I'm sure many of them looked like that when they were 18/19/20 but the ravages of laziness, lack of exercise, pies, cakes and letting themselves go in front of their other halfs got the better of them.
I'm not one to speak because I've put on 1/2 stone from sitting in the office doing the same but I'm not going to try and come up with excuses, it's my own laziness.
Mr 69 for PM! \o/
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 21:08
why do things have to be shoved anywhere?
There are many reasons why things need to be shoved ;)
why do things have to be shoved anywhere?
It's in an Ann Summers catalogue. Of course you're meant to shove it somewhere ;D
Oh, incidently, I found a lone rubber test tube bung frozen at the back of the school fridge today... I thought of you ;)
Can't think why :D
TinkerBell
23-06-2008, 21:11
Why can't you just be happy with who you are?
Because when you have images like that and adverts saying you should watch what you eat, look like this, if you don't look like this that you aren't sexy, after god knows how many years it sinks it.
Also I have had many people me insensitive to me because of my weight, which has just made the whole problem ten times worse.
It isn't easy to ignore all of that, just isn't :)
There are many reasons why things need to be shoved ;)
i.e "I've got a headache, leave me alone" ?
Because when you have images like that and adverts saying you should watch what you eat, look like this, if you don't look like this that you aren't sexy, after god knows how many years it sinks it.
Also I have had many people me insensitive to me because of my weight, which has just made the whole problem ten times worse.
It isn't easy to ignore all of that, just isn't :)
Forgive me for my attitude, but why shouldn't you watch what you eat? I am not saying you are, but it just ISNT acceptable to be a fat mess. Why should people say it is and start putting heffers on the front of magazines to appease people that can't be arsed to lose weight?
I'm not saying "larger" women cant be sexy, but for the love of sweet baby Moses on stilts, lets just call a spade a spade.
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 21:19
but for the love of sweet baby Moses on stilts
*steals* ;D
*steals* ;D
I thought he was found in reeds rather than on stilts? Is this from a re-make?
<sigh> - can anyone tell I'm bored and lonely?
goldilocks
23-06-2008, 21:23
Because when you have images like that and adverts saying you should watch what you eat, look like this, if you don't look like this that you aren't sexy, after god knows how many years it sinks it.
you *should* watch what you eat - and that isn't an appearance thing, surely it is a health thing?
i hate the fact that 'slim' seems to be becoming a crime - every woman who is size 8 or smaller is 'anorexic', an 'over exerciser', a 'twig' a 'stick insect' or a 'health freak'.
yes - you can take it too far, of course you can be 'too thin' - but it has to be a reciprocal argument.
if anything where you can see/feel ribs is 'too thin' then what is 'too fat'?
edit: i am not *that* slim, but i feel that the argument has to be put in both directions.
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 21:26
I thought he was found in reeds rather than on stilts? Is this from a re-make?
<sigh> - can anyone tell I'm bored and lonely?
Poor picky wicky !!
the love of sweet baby Moses on stilts
I thought he was found in reeds rather than on stilts? Is this from a re-make?
;D;D There are tears in my eyes ;D;D
semi-pro waster
23-06-2008, 21:33
you *should* watch what you eat - and that isn't an appearance thing, surely it is a health thing?
That is the part that often seems to be forgotten, being overweight or underweight can be unhealthy, in fact even if you are dead on in the BMI* you can still be very unhealthy. Arteries can get clogged up, blood pressure can be raised, diabetes can occur etc etc etc. If you just eat crappy foods then you will be doing your body no favours regardless of whether you weigh 10 stone or if you weigh 20 stone. Another point is that good quality healthy foods will normally give you more useful energy and leave you feeling healthier which then makes you more likely to keep active and so on ad infinitum.
*Just waiting for Will to state what a crock it is for gym goers. ;)
Actually you are both wrong, moses was found in the Bullrushes.
:p
BB x
One thing I think may have been missed, is that the 'party' atmosphere is probably a lot different to the shop one.
Why are these women only trying this stuff at home in private with friends and not in the shop anyway? I suspect the women that Pheebs interacts with at the parties are probably more disposed to be insecure about their image already so of course they'll complain. They won't necessarily be a fair representation of the majority of the Ann Summers catalogue. Obviously this is just assumption on my part but I reckon it's a valid point.
I think the majority of the business they do will be through the shops, where I think this advertising probably works a lot better on the general buying populace than maybe the type of people who attend the parties. One of my friends at Uni, who is a little overweight really, bought lingerie from Ann Summers last year and it made her feel fantastic and look fantastic. That's the kind of person she is, she doesn't get depressed looking at people thinner than her, she just does what makes her feel good.
Also, you have to remember that a lot of the market they sell to will be guys, buying for girlfriends and wives and as shallow as it sounds, when a guy is looking around trying to figure out what will look nice for his girlfriend, he will probably be enticed by whichever poster looks nicest to him and that girl is smoking hot, with fantastic eyes that suck you in.
That's probably a bit of a rambling read but i'm knackered and short on sleep so meh :p
Piggymon
23-06-2008, 21:38
*Just waiting for Will to state what a crock it is for gym goers. ;)
According to the BMI I am at the " fatter " end of healthy :rolleyes:
Beat Will to it ;)
Why are these women only trying this stuff at home in private with friends and not in the shop anyway? I suspect the women that Pheebs interacts with at the parties are probably more disposed to be insecure about their image already so of course they'll complain. They won't necessarily be a fair representation of the majority of the Ann Summers catalogue. Obviously this is just assumption on my part but I reckon it's a valid point.
I think the majority of the business they do will be through the shops, where I think this advertising probably works a lot better on the general buying populace than maybe the type of people who attend the parties. One of my friends at Uni, who is a little overweight really, bought lingerie from Ann Summers last year and it made her feel fantastic and look fantastic. That's the kind of person she is, she doesn't get depressed looking at people thinner than her, she just does what makes her feel good.
I've been to ann summers parties. And I've been in the shop loads of times. I'm no different in the shop to how I am at parties.
I try things on, I ask for opinions. I have body issues, but I have a right to feel good about myself.
And just like your friend, my lingerie from there makes me feel great. I always wear my good undies whenever I go out, I find it really gives me a boost even though 8 I3ALL is the only one who gets to see my undies.
If I were to post a pic of me here wearing my special undies, I'd defy any of you to say that my pic wouldnt make a good front page for the catalogue.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1351/homepage60ammendedog7.jpg
Love it ;D ;D ;D
Why are women incapable of ignoring the media "pressure"?
The way I see it, women LOVE to feel like they have something to strive towards - generally speaking here. If that wasn't the case, why do MILLIONS of you buy magazines like Closer and Grazia and Cosmo and all that bull****? You buy it and then feel like crap because you look at it - and then go out and buy another one or next months issue or whatever anyway!
Cynical as it may be, these magazines show you exactly what you want to see in order to make money. If you hated it, you wouldn't buy it and they would go bust. The fact they are still in business speaks volumes.
The woman in that photo is HOT. The two women Muban posted are also quite sexy. Pheebs, you are entirely attractive and have nothing to be paranoid about! Absolutely nothing at all!
I subscribe to Focus magazine a) because I'm slightly nerdy (but not nerdy enough for New Scientist... can only buy that when I am in the mood to really concentrate ;)) and b) for the exact reasons you say - I very rarely can cope with looking through these Closer magazine gumph without getting paranoid/upset/wound up.
For the most part women who feel they look rubbish DO look rubbish because they are fat and lazy and sit around in the office eating biscuits and sweets all day and don't actually want to do anything about it. I see it every day of the week in my own office. They are quite happy to sit there moaning about it and how they are being undermined by images like that rather than do something about it. I'm sure many of them looked like that when they were 18/19/20 but the ravages of laziness, lack of exercise, pies, cakes and letting themselves go in front of their other halfs got the better of them.
Johnny, I understand what you're saying... but can I just point out that:
a) I'm not saying put a size 48G on the front cover :) (though I don't think you mean it like that... I think you're on a more general rant :)) I think they should consider, however, putting more "average" sizes - 12's, 14's and 16's! Or just women with huge norks, not chicken fillets being pushed up by booby enhancers! Just not to have every page a size 0 model would be a relief and I am convinced make the product more appealing.
b) From the people I have met and spoken with - I think there is a surprisingly large amount of ladies who, although look fab, feel like they look poo. Yes some who do feel poo look poo but please don't forget those who genuinely have a crap time about their body and DO put in a lot of effort to change it. I, for one, am one of those people. I try really hard. REALLY hard.
But other than that, I think it's fair to say you should be DP ;)
you *should* watch what you eat - and that isn't an appearance thing, surely it is a health thing?
i hate the fact that 'slim' seems to be becoming a crime - every woman who is size 8 or smaller is 'anorexic', an 'over exerciser', a 'twig' a 'stick insect' or a 'health freak'.
yes - you can take it too far, of course you can be 'too thin' - but it has to be a reciprocal argument.
if anything where you can see/feel ribs is 'too thin' then what is 'too fat'?
edit: i am not *that* slim, but i feel that the argument has to be put in both directions.
Slim is not a crime! But being not a size zero is also not a crime and yet it's the constant image of perfection and really shouldn't be! :)
Sorry to hassle buuuut you've not really answered my last post about risk? I don't get the risk of having "larger" sized models (please note when I say larger I mean larger than a bean pole not obese)? Like... why would it be risky to say, have the two models mubs posted posing in the Ann Summers catalogue?
L
b) From the people I have met and spoken with - I think there is a surprisingly large amount of ladies who, although look fab, feel like they look poo. Yes some who do feel poo look poo but please don't forget those who genuinely have a crap time about their body and DO put in a lot of effort to change it. I, for one, am one of those people. I try really hard. REALLY hard.
But you look Fab Pheebs and you should believe it, i think that a lot of these women who think they look poo just need to believe in themselves. Sounds like it is less of a physical thing and more a mental thing.
I hope DP doesn't mean Double Penetrated :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
goldilocks
24-06-2008, 17:53
Sorry to hassle buuuut you've not really answered my last post about risk? I don't get the risk of having "larger" sized models (please note when I say larger I mean larger than a bean pole not obese)? Like... why would it be risky to say, have the two models mubs posted posing in the Ann Summers catalogue?
risky in the fact (only) that it is deviation from a so far successful campaign.
i don't imagine that any successful, money making ad campaign would be scrapped and altered just because a radical change *could* possibly make them a little more popular
no matter what the general consensus is to the advert / brochure (it seems pretty negative judging from on here / what you've said about parties) - people are still spending their money!
even if it is unpopular - they are still making money, which is what it's all about
and why not have obese women model? if these thin women are making *some* women feel bad about themselves in the shown items - surely they would have the reverse effect and sales would go through the roof! (?!?)
Del Lardo
24-06-2008, 19:18
phew! That was an interesting read.
couple of comments......
I have to agree with Mr 69 that I'm fed up with hearing about overweight (and I'm not talking about women with a few sexy curves) women complaining about how the media makes them feel bad about themselves while they sit on their arse stuffing a cake down their throat* For the vast majority of people losing weight is simply a case of eating vaguely sensibly and doing a bit of exercise. It's not that hard. I used to be a fat barsteward and dropped a lot of weight quickly simply by eating sensibly and exercising a couple of times a week.
Secondly, Pheebs, have you fed this info back into AS? Surely this is the kind of info they need to receive in order to improve their sales?
*Gross over simplification I know
risky in the fact (only) that it is deviation from a so far successful campaign.
i don't imagine that any successful, money making ad campaign would be scrapped and altered just because a radical change *could* possibly make them a little more popular
no matter what the general consensus is to the advert / brochure (it seems pretty negative judging from on here / what you've said about parties) - people are still spending their money!
even if it is unpopular - they are still making money, which is what it's all about
and why not have obese women model? if these thin women are making *some* women feel bad about themselves in the shown items - surely they would have the reverse effect and sales would go through the roof! (?!?)
They wouldn't be altering it all though - only a small section of their ads... not exactly the biggest risk they could take? I still don't see why it would be a risk either! The women would just be more averaged sized wearing the same undies as what was going to be advertised! They'd still make money - if not more!
I think you're being a little sarcy here saying about obesity and that sales would go through the roof (no need to be really) but I will respond anyway. I personally don't think they should have obese models because of health issues. I'm all for the larger model/more averaged sized model as it's still a healthy size/weight etc... I just think obese would advocate the wrong message. If you look at the extreme effects of people looking at skinny models (making them feel pressured to be skinny and in some cases not being the cause but supporting their actions when bringing on eating disorders) I think the same would happen the other way around (aid eating disorders)
Kind of obvious the response really no?
phew! That was an interesting read.
couple of comments......
I have to agree with Mr 69 that I'm fed up with hearing about overweight (and I'm not talking about women with a few sexy curves) women complaining about how the media makes them feel bad about themselves while they sit on their arse stuffing a cake down their throat* For the vast majority of people losing weight is simply a case of eating vaguely sensibly and doing a bit of exercise. It's not that hard. I used to be a fat barsteward and dropped a lot of weight quickly simply by eating sensibly and exercising a couple of times a week.
Secondly, Pheebs, have you fed this info back into AS? Surely this is the kind of info they need to receive in order to improve their sales?
*Gross over simplification I know
I am putting together a bit of a campaign at the moment :) We'll see what happens!
Just out of curiosity Del Lardo - I'm not over weight. I'm smack bang in the middle of average (though in the past two years I've floated between being on the edge of underweight and average) and I exercise daily and... although I gorged my face in pizza last night (so much so I actually felt sick - but it was a treat ;)) I eat healthily.... yet the media puts an IMMENSE amount of pressure on me to look "perfect". Sometimes I can feel like the most muntiest of munters in the world when I see these images of people - especially when you see (as stated in previous post) things like "oh no! Geri Haliwell has put on weight and not shaken it after the birth of her child!" and stupid things like that. I try to avoid stuff like this - I read science mags and sensible news papers... but it's impossible as it's everywhere.
So what about the likes of me? Surely I count for something other than a bun eating whinge meister ;) :)
Note regarding the media pressure, just don't watch TV, pay no attention to Fashion Magazines or Z List Celebrities. So call pressure are not from the media at all, they are only pressure because you let them be. You eat healthily, you know it, you know that you are in your ideal weight, then be happy about that, why let the media dictate you?
Be yourself.
"Just" don't watch TV?!!?! I *LOVE* films! I love love love love LOVE them! I love certain tv series and adore comedy shows too. So to avoid TV altogether... well that would be a bit of a bummer for me!
Media doesn't dictate me but it certainly influences me. To avoid it altogether is.... well near impossible!
I don't want to go off onto this subject as such because it's slightly off topic (Ann Summers and their models) but although I am myself all the time, I can't help but feel it's not good enough and *always* compare myself to these stupidly skeleton shaped bints. A fault of my own I agree, but something I can't yet control and I know others struggle with too.
Media sucks bum. It's part of the reason I dipped out of it after dabbing in radio and seeing whether it would be worth my effort to try and work in TV. It's... well a nightmare. But... that's a completely different thread altogether :)
Note regarding the media pressure, just don't watch TV, pay no attention to Fashion Magazines or Z List Celebrities. So call pressure are not from the media at all, they are only pressure because you let them be. You eat healthily, you know it, you know that you are in your ideal weight, then be happy about that, why let the media dictate you?
Be yourself.
Easier said than done.
BB x
Del Lardo
25-06-2008, 10:02
Just out of curiosity Del Lardo - I'm not over weight. I'm smack bang in the middle of average (though in the past two years I've floated between being on the edge of underweight and average) and I exercise daily and... although I gorged my face in pizza last night (so much so I actually felt sick - but it was a treat ;)) I eat healthily.... yet the media puts an IMMENSE amount of pressure on me to look "perfect". Sometimes I can feel like the most muntiest of munters in the world when I see these images of people - especially when you see (as stated in previous post) things like "oh no! Geri Haliwell has put on weight and not shaken it after the birth of her child!" and stupid things like that. I try to avoid stuff like this - I read science mags and sensible news papers... but it's impossible as it's everywhere.
So what about the likes of me? Surely I count for something other than a bun eating whinge meister ;) :)
You say that "the media" puts the pressure on you to look perfect but all it does is show thin women with big boobies and you put the pressure on yourself.
I realise that articles like How to look great in a Bikini can make you feel like you need to look like a stick insect but that is your interpretation rather than them stating that you need to. I read Mens Heath occasionally and there's always articles on How to get the Perfect Six Pack but I am perfectly happy with my little beer barrel :D
I understand what you are saying but I really don't understand why it affects women so much. Guess it's because our brains are wired differently or possibly that I have a massive surplus of (somewhat unwarranted) self esteem
EDIT: I just want to improve a couple my examples.
To the best of my knowledge Heat Magazine has never run an article entitled 'Pheebs Packs on 2lb after stuffing her face with Pizza' so they are not putting the pressure on you as (and please don't this the wrong way) very few people care about what you look like. Articles like 'Geri is still fat after her baby' put pressure on the celebrity as for reasons unknown to me a lot of people seem to care. You then take this in and think well if all these people care if Geri is carrying a bit of extra weight then they must care if I am carrying a bit of extra weight. The reality is that they don't and the only people who would notice or care are the people closest to you and they are the ones you need to listen to.
Going back to the Mens Health example I see these guys with 6 packs and think "God! They must have spent loads of time in the gym, think of all the pies and beer they could have enjoyed instead". Next time you see a picture of a skinny girl that makes you feel like a munter just think of all the yummy pizza and chocolate she's had to miss out on. I think it'll make you feel better :D
I think that whatever size models they used, SOMEBODY is going to end up feeling rubbish.
If they use skinny models, then bigger people might feel rubbish, and smaller people might too.
If they use larger models, then some people still might feel rubbish, so thy cant really win.
I think that if people feel rubbish about themselves, then they will feel like that no matter what models and pictures they see in a catalogue, because they will always find fault with themselves, until they have learned to either change what they don't like about themselves, or learn to like themselves how they are.
(just my opinion though!)
I think that if people feel rubbish about themselves, then they will feel like that no matter what models and pictures they see in a catalogue, because they will always find fault with themselves, until they have learned to either change what they don't like about themselves, or learn to like themselves how they are.
:)
Justsomebloke
25-06-2008, 11:45
I think it's really horrible you picking on her because she is a bit ribby :(
She can't help it if she cannot put on weight leave her alone you BIG bullys :p
See what I did there :D
Sidenote.
I Absolutely Love Dark women they just seem so much more sexy to me than fairer women.
Having said that I absolutely Love that Fluffy blonde thing that fair headed women have going on :huh:
Sitting here I am happy to only have those two things to worry about,
Wanders off to ponder the Dark or Blonde question :)
Wanders off to ponder the Dark or Blonde question :)
What about redheads? :'(
What about redheads? :'(
Red > Brown > Crazy > Black > Blonde > Ginger
tbh.
:p
Pumpkinstew
25-06-2008, 13:30
Wanders off to ponder the Dark or Blonde question :)
Is it wrong I immediately thought about Leffe and not hair colour?
Serious comment for a change.
I think Olibubble is right on the nail with her post. If Ann Summers used one of the size 12s from Bravissimo would women not still look at her and think they didn't look as good. (The brunette in their catalogue is :shocked: by the way)
Is it purely a weight issue or a hair/makeup/lighting/digital touching up issue?
LeperousDust
25-06-2008, 13:45
I think its generic fakery and over the topness, but its the way the industry is, cause sadly for a larger majority it works. As well pointed out if you don't feel happy about yourself, you won't happy regardless of what you look at.
//Love's himself
*Not like that, this is a public forum!
I have no problem with slim or thin models - I know that sex/sex appeal sells stuff so it is to be expected. Yes I look at stuff* and feel ****e and fat and ugly but I know they pick the models for a reason and that reason is to appeal to the wider market. What I object to is using obviously underweight models.
And back to the original picture in the thread, that model might not be underweight, but I still think it is a horrible photo. It is a nasty angle, her back looks like its been OTT airbrushed away, her ribs do look poky (not saying they are, but that is how it looks) and I wouldn't even consider buying that underwear, not because its on a skinny model and it will never look good on me etc etc but because the model makes it look bad (to me), because I don't think she looks sexy (because of the bad points I mentioned) I just wouldn't consider buying it.
I like the idea of having a range of sizes throughout a catalogue - why not have a naturally slim woman and a curvier woman modelling the same product? At least that way buyers can imagine how they may look in the item.
*As an aside, I don't read any gossip mags or trash like that but unless you walk around with your eyes closed, you are always going to see adverts, images, pictures, mannequins etc - hell I even saw a female shop dummy with ribs moulded into the shape - that can not be a good thing!
I have no problem with slim or thin models - I know that sex/sex appeal sells stuff so it is to be expected. Yes I look at stuff* and feel ****e and fat and ugly but I know they pick the models for a reason and that reason is to appeal to the wider market. What I object to is using obviously underweight models.
And back to the original picture in the thread, that model might not be underweight, but I still think it is a horrible photo. It is a nasty angle, her back looks like its been OTT airbrushed away, her ribs do look poky (not saying they are, but that is how it looks) and I wouldn't even consider buying that underwear, not because its on a skinny model and it will never look good on me etc etc but because the model makes it look bad (to me), because I don't think she looks sexy (because of the bad points I mentioned) I just wouldn't consider buying it.
I like the idea of having a range of sizes throughout a catalogue - why not have a naturally slim woman and a curvier woman modelling the same product? At least that way buyers can imagine how they may look in the item.
*As an aside, I don't read any gossip mags or trash like that but unless you walk around with your eyes closed, you are always going to see adverts, images, pictures, mannequins etc - hell I even saw a female shop dummy with ribs moulded into the shape - that can not be a good thing!
Exactly what I have been trying to say but summarised into a much clearer bundle of words :) Thank you Sam! :D
From the above posts - I KNooooooooooow know know not everyone can be pleased but that's why a selection of different sized models would be better - it would suit and make MORE people happier, not just a minority! :)
It just seems so blatantly obvious to me! It's like.... like like... like having just vanilla ice cream on offer! Fair enough, people like and are used to vanilla, but why not throw some flipping strawberry ice cream in there too! And Mint Chocolate Chip icecream! People will be more interested and more enticed to look if you have a variety of flavours!
Mmmmmmm.
Ice cream. ;)
semi-pro waster
25-06-2008, 19:06
Red > Brown > Crazy > Black > Blonde > Ginger
tbh.
:p
Doesn't that make it somewhat circular if you are going from red to red or ginger to ginger if you prefer, since they are usually used to describe the same sort of colour? There seem to be a lot of ginger people who try and escape their fate by calling it "strawberry blonde", "titian" or something equally misleading to describe their hair colour. Just call it a shade of ginger for Petes sake and stop confusing the issue. :p
//Love's himself
*Not like that, this is a public forum!
Wouldn't be the first time you've revealed more of yourself than intended on a public forum now, would it? :p
Doesn't that make it somewhat circular if you are going from red to red or ginger to ginger if you prefer, since they are usually used to describe the same sort of colour? There seem to be a lot of ginger people who try and escape their fate by calling it "strawberry blonde", "titian" or something equally misleading to describe their hair colour. Just call it a shade of ginger for Petes sake and stop confusing the issue. :p
No, red and ginger are different.
red - http://www.style-hair-magazine.com/image-files/largeredhaircolor2.jpg
ginger - http://images.google.co.uk/url?q=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41186000/jpg/_41186790_kennedy_close300body.jpg&usg=AFQjCNF0c_2Ygrtjcw2-bF0iRyXSta89sg
No, red and ginger are different.
red - http://www.style-hair-magazine.com/image-files/largeredhaircolor2.jpg
ginger - http://images.google.co.uk/url?q=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41186000/jpg/_41186790_kennedy_close300body.jpg&usg=AFQjCNF0c_2Ygrtjcw2-bF0iRyXSta89sg
Red and ginger are VERY different :D
Indeed. Red = yummeh. Ginger = lose (apart from very rare cases).
Drools, I totally agree kitten!
Blackstar
26-06-2008, 00:45
My god, i'm not going to touch on the OP other than to say she is thin but i think it is more than angle of the picture that makes her look a bit ribby, which is something i'd rather not see in an advert.
I don't mind thin models, that is what people expect. I have never ever been offended by seeing a thin woman modelling some clothes, she may well look better in them than i will but its my opinion of how i look that matters to me.
The media hounds famous people about their weight. Sometimes i personally think "well if they are calling her fat..." and that can get me down for a bit but i don't feel under pressure, i want to lose weight because i'm unhappy with myself, i couldn't give a flying **** what 'the media' think. Yes we should all eat healthy food and exercise, generally looking after ourselves.
As for the red hair debate, it's all RED hair but different shades of red. Personally auburn red hair runs in my family rather than coppery/gingerish red. I think red hair in general is gorgeous. I'm a blonde and again, couldn't give a toss if people don't find that attractive, different strokes for different folks. DRZ needs to learn some tact :p
LeperousDust
26-06-2008, 16:17
On the subject of red/ginger, there shouldn't be a "choice" because i know some stunning specimens of both :)
Some girls can *really* pull it off, and i couldn't imagine them any other colour!
Wouldn't be the first time you've revealed more of yourself than intended on a public forum now, would it? :p
*Wahem*
DRZ needs to learn some tact :p
No I dont.
:p
My opinion on this is my opinion and I wont sugar-coat it for anyone! :D (Especially for those on a diet :p :D)
Why oh why oh WHY does the :D smiley have boss eyes? Is it a politically correct smiley?
:o That post wasn't supposed to be in this thread :o
Why oh why oh WHY does the :D smiley have boss eyes?
No idea but I think it fits in perfectly here :D
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.