View Full Version : F1
Miss_Lainey
13-10-2008, 21:25
Now, I don't really watch any sport but when i do it is Formula One.
My Dad loves it, so i was dragged up on it, now i'm marrying a man who is even more obsessed with it, so over the years it has grown on me.
However, i am finding myself increasing frustrated with how crook the sport seems to be. Firstly the whole Hamilton 'did he or did he not gain an advantage' fiasco, then Massa's 10 second penalty for the chaos he caused in the pits in Singapore and now what's with Bourdais' 25 second punishment for simply driving out of the pits... but heaven forbid in front of, you guessed it, that horrible ugly Brazilian man!
What are your thoughts?
I got bored with it about five years ago for the same sort of thing.
TinkerBell
13-10-2008, 21:28
I love the formula one, I do feel that there is biased decisions made with the racing and with certain teams, which I think is a real shame.
A race is a race and should be fair to everyone no matter who they are driving for. I just wish everyone would play fair and not try and ruin other people's races because they are that desperate to win!
Miss_Lainey
13-10-2008, 21:30
I think they need to put a limit on how much each team can spend to make it more equal, otherwise you are always going to have better teams
TinkerBell
13-10-2008, 21:30
That would prob be a really good idea, but I doubt they will do that to be honest. Which is a shame.
I used to really like it, but with the amount of dubious decisions going in favour of Ferrari I can't see the point in watching it.
The racing has improved to some extent and there are at least the occasional overtaking moves but I much prefer Moto GP where there is often more overtaking in a handful of laps than an entire F1 season.
To be honest, this season I think everyone has ended up with their fair share of decisions for and against them but the inconsistency has been dreadful, with something in one race getting a drive through and then totally ignored in another etc.
Sadly, this is always going to happen for as long as they insist on using a totally different group of stewards at each race. You can't have consistency when the people making the decisions every time are completely different.
Miss_Lainey
13-10-2008, 21:58
You can't have consistency when the people making the decisions every time are completely different.
Or when they work for a track owned by one of the teams
I have to concur - I lost interest when it moved to ITV. I think I rather enjoyed Murray Walker's mannerisms, and his departure, adverts all over the place, and the general lack of competition meant I lost interest.
While we won't be getting Murray back, isn't it going back to the BBC next year? That'll be a start.
There are two things I'd like to see - add regulations that level the playing field (limiting the budgets sounds like a sensible one), and quit with the silly regulations that pile penalty upon penalty and spoil the race as much as the lack of competition did.
LeperousDust
13-10-2008, 23:26
Can't wait to see it back on the BBC next year, its been a long time coming! Although as a sport its been steadily going downhill for a while, but for some reason this doesn't stop me watching it. I do find now days i have it on but pay much much less attention to it, to the extent i can watch a whole race and not really know who even won sometimes :D
AboveTheSalt
13-10-2008, 23:45
...
However, i am finding myself increasing frustrated with how crook the sport seems to be.
...I think that your entire argument falls apart when you attempt to describe F1 as a "sport".
It is supposed to be entertainment - all it really needs to make it a winning formula is Simon Cowell as commentator ;)
Returning to the subject of ruthless Massa, the major talking point as we left the circuit was the ridiculous penalty awarded to Sebastien Bourdais for the collision with Massa near the end of the race. Bourdais was exiting the pit lane and the pit lane exit light was blue to warn him that a car was coming down the straight. They were racing each other for position. Bourdais came out of the pit lane, with Massa well over to the left on the run to the first corner. Massa drove like a man who felt that a Toro Rosso had no business being in his way and should let him pass. Bourdais did everything he could to avoid a collision, even putting his inside wheels on the kerbs, but Massa came across and spun around him. He might argue that he had his front wheels in front, but the team managers I spoke to after the race all said that FIA race director Charlie Whiting had briefed them in Singapore and again in Fuji that the car exiting the pits has right of way.
So once again, the stewards have gone against the advice Charlie has issued to teams, as they did with the penalty for Hamilton in Spa (where Whiting had told McLaren he thought Hamilton had acted fairly). If the teams cannot believe the race director, what hope have the rest of us and the wider public got? The FIA styles itself as the referee in this sport, but surely it cannot afford to keep sending out such mixed messages.
It confuses the public and makes some of them think that these things are being done for Ferrari’s benefit. (Link (http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=44254))Who is this "some" of whom James Allen speaks :confused:
However, i am finding myself increasing frustrated with how crook the sport seems to be.
Sorry to say, but F1 has been like this for years. Maybe as a fan, you've been a bit blind to it? I know a couple of friends who have.
Much prefer to watch MotoGP :)
Much prefer to watch MotoGP :)
I've always said you're a very sensible chap :)
I'm interested to see if my enjoyment of F1 will increase when it goes back to the Beeb. The ITV commentary team are so woeful it's almost amusing. I know Murray made mistakes too, but the ITV guys really take the biscuit.
Thing is, when Murray made a mistake, it was often worthy of an outtakes show, or he'd say how well a driver is doing and the car would promptly blow up/crash. The current lot may know their stuff, but entertaining they aren't.
Flibster
14-10-2008, 16:28
As an ex-f1 employee it pains me to see how bad the 'sport' has become these days.
It's not so much that the FIA are pro-Ferrari, they are a lot more anti-Mclaren. It does appear that they have decided who is getting the championships if they can help it though.
ITV has been a shambles for the most part too. the first couple of years whne they had Murray were ok, sadly they also had the Count Von Count *Jim Rosenthal* hosting it and he was useless. The only people I would take across to the BBC coverage would be Martin Brundle and Ted Kravitz
But I do believe that it's Heir Mosley and his band of SS Stewards that are killing the spectacle of F1.
Knipples
14-10-2008, 17:39
But I do believe that it's Heir Mosley and his band of SS Stewards that are killing the spectacle of F1.
Amen to that Flibster as you already know from our many rants/conversations on the OCUK thread. :)
But I do believe that it's Heir Mosley and his band of SS Stewards that are killing the spectacle of F1.
I think it's more the fact he actually doesn't have a band of stewards, they seem to just be local bums employed for a weekend at a time :p
Flibster
14-10-2008, 23:53
Amen to that Flibster as you already know from our many rants/conversations on the OCUK thread. :)
Me?
I'm sweet and innocent ;)
:tak:
Flibster
15-10-2008, 00:00
Oh, and by a complete coincidence, I've found a couple of Images that I dug up or in one case created looong before Max's Spank-o-rama!
Bernie waves hello to Max (http://www.flibster.com/Images/bernie.jpeg)
Max at rest in his holiday home in Obersalzberg (http://www.flibster.com/Images/JaVol.jpg)
'JaVol.jpg' :D
Did you mean Jawohl? :p
Flibster
15-10-2008, 00:11
'JaVol.jpg' :D
Did you mean Jawohl? :p
Probably... but my German is limited to a few relatively useless sentences. All from a book that stated it was for practical, everyday, conversational German.
That is a cat
Yes that is a cat
Is the cat green?
No the cat is black
Is the cat dead?
And the ever useful
Hans is wet.
Why is Hans wet?
Hans is wet because he is standing under a waterfall.
You can just see how the conversation would have gone can't you? :D
Creature
15-10-2008, 00:16
I need that book :D
Flibster
15-10-2008, 00:32
I need that book :D
If I remember correctly it was called Sprachen Mal Deutsch
Which I believe means Speak Bad German
I think they need to put a limit on how much each team can spend to make it more equal, otherwise you are always going to have better teams
Then surely it would just be A1? I always thought the point was that F1 was the most advanced type of racing there is, putting a limit on the budget would hinder development.
I think there is a bit more excitement in F1 than say, 3 years ago but it still could do with improving. Getting rid of traction control helped and next year KER (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/23/formula-one-to-introduce-hybrid-kinetic-energy-recovery-system-i/) is starting to be introduced.
Its still great for Sunday hangovers and laughing at Martin Brundle's walks at the start of the race.
On an entirely boasting note, Bernie Ecclestone was sat next to me when I went out for breakfast the other day :)
AboveTheSalt
16-10-2008, 12:24
"After considering the economic context, the FFSA is giving up its status as a financial promoter of a Formula 1 grand prix," said FFSA president Nicolas Deschaux. "As a result, unless a promoter is found to replace the FFSA, the French Grand Prix cannot be part of the FIA’s international calendar in 2009."
...
In an interview with French newspaper L'Equipe, Deschaux added that the economic downturn and the losses made by the 2008 race meant that the FFSA could not justify continuing as promoter. “The communities follow us, but the projected revenues for all leisure activities are 25% down for 2009, while the cost of hosting the race goes up 10% contractually," he said. (Link (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44290))Hopefully, this decline in leisure activity revenue will result in promotions on Ski lift passes and shorter queues :)
LOL. Nice segue there. :)
That'll put the frighteners up a few people. Mind you, no doubt they'll find somewhere in the mid/far east to take up the slack as that's where all the money is at and the pattern has already been set.
Other sports seem to be following too - there's even talk of eminently British staples like the Snooker World Championship moving to China.
Bring back turbo engines and get rid of refueling. That'll mean the drivers have to use some intelligence to preserve their fuel and not just run on full boost all the time and see the return of 3 second pitstops just for tyres.
Miss_Lainey
19-10-2008, 10:34
Should friendly passing be allowed?
Knipples
19-10-2008, 10:59
Its not allowed. They banned it years ago.
Bit of a boring race but Lewis got the job done.
Matblack
19-10-2008, 11:01
Should friendly passing be allowed?
Disallowing it is a farce because they just ignore it, so you may as well allow team orders.
MB
Justsomebloke
19-10-2008, 11:27
F1 is a joke & a Fixed joke at that.
Hamilton is a Tosser so are his family & the rest of the Hamilton circus.
Bernie big wad needs a bullit to the head.
Allen needs dragging behind the safety car for 72 laps.
Murray was an Embarrassment.
ITV's add placement is done by retarded TV execs who are still counting there back handers.
The development of the race cars is held back by BS rules unless it helps Ferrari win.
I've said since Schumi that F1 is Fixed & I stand by it.
The only real racing done these days is Lower level Formulas & Bikes.
F1 is a Disgusting waste of money.
This all comes from a Life long F1 fan brought up on the likes of Hunt, Andretti, Berger, Fittipaldi, Stewart & Lauda. Real men & real racers when the driver actually made a difference to the equation.
Every time I watch a race these days it just ****** me off :angry:
I just read this on the BBC F1 pages
Hamilton was eight seconds in front by the time of the second pit-stop period, after which Raikkonen slowed and allowed his team-mate to take second place at the end of the back on lap 49.
Team orders are forbidden under FIA - the sport's governing body - rules but Raikkonen said he no qualms about doing whatever was necessary to help Ferrari, even though Massa was largely unable to match his pace throughout the race.
"I had nothing to lose - or win - so I'm driving for the team," said the Finn, whose title defence came to an end in Japan last week.
Surely this has to be picked up on by the FIA, it's blatantly against the whole team orders thing.
AboveTheSalt
19-10-2008, 12:28
Surely this has to be picked up on by the FIA, it's blatantly against the whole team orders thing.But doesn't Kimi Raikkonen drive for Ferrari?
He can't have done anything wrong then.
;)
Good point, I forgot about that :)
Surely this has to be picked up on by the FIA, it's blatantly against the whole team orders thing.
Trouble is, they've let it slide for other people this season so it would be a touch unfair to penalise just them for it.
Besides, what's to say it was team orders and Kimi wasn't just feeling exceptionally generous himself and just did it off his own back?
semi-pro waster
19-10-2008, 13:44
I have to concur - I lost interest when it moved to ITV. I think I rather enjoyed Murray Walker's mannerisms, and his departure, adverts all over the place, and the general lack of competition meant I lost interest.
I haven't watched Formula 1 for years now but when I did on occasion it was almost always for Murray Walker and moments like (roughly paraphrased) "Schumacher, Schumacher, it's Michael Schumacher" in a highly excited tone then a good 20-30 seconds of silence and he comes back with "I'm sorry, I got a little bit excited there, I had to take a moment to calm down". Enthusiasm like that is infectious. ;D
I never saw the problem with team orders anyway, otherwise what is the point in having a team?
AboveTheSalt
19-10-2008, 15:17
I never saw the problem with team orders anyway, otherwise what is the point in having a team?I wonder how much money could be made out of Lewis Hamilton "throwing away" the world championship?
I certainly can't see anything wrong with it ;)
He could do that himself given enough money. No team orders needed.
AboveTheSalt
19-10-2008, 20:12
He could do that himself given enough money. No team orders needed.Yes, I had kinda worked that one out for myself and Uncle Ron has shown pretty convincingly that he isn't a great fan of team orders ;)
What I was driving at was that as I understand it, betting is quite popular in China. I rather wonder what they think of it when one Ferrari driver hands a place to the other Ferrari driver ...
... still, knowing the Chinese, I don't doubt that you would have been able to get odds on that happening anyhow ;D
I never saw the problem with team orders anyway, otherwise what is the point in having a team?
Cost F1 a lot of credibility with Schumacher over the years. Barichello lead the Austrian Grand Prix in 2002 and had to let Schumacher win,and it was pretty meaningless as the race was in May, it wasn't to make anything close or that, but just so Schumy would get the win.
Then you had the reverse in America at the end of the season and the Americans went fugging mental (and quite rightly)
As for the Kimi Massa thing, if nobody in the team has said 'Kimi you need to let Massa past' or words to that effect, then there is no proof of team orders. Kimi isn't stupid enough to have to be told to move over.
MarcLister
19-10-2008, 23:19
Hamilton is a Tosser so are his family & the rest of the Hamilton circus.Amen. Long been fed up with Lewis and the touring fan club.
I love Kimi since he just doesn't give a crap about sponsors or fans or interviews. He's probably the most "boring" F1 driver on the grid but since he just drives and does nothing else, I absolutely admire him. I think F1 needs more "characters" who don't conform to the standards F1 drivers are forced to. Characters such as Mansell, Senna, Irvine etc.
As for F1 rules. Hmm get rid of refuelling, introduce 100% fuel tanks. Let them change tyres. Or ban pit stops altogether apart from when tyres burst/puncture/wings fall off etc. Let drivers choose if they want to use a soft tyre and don't force them to have to use both compounds during a race. As a result cars are heavier and therefore slower. Also means that with no tyre changes (apart from punctures etc) drivers have to be careful with how they use their tyres.
I want to see a driver use a hard or soft compound during the race because he wants the advantages that tyre compound offers him, not because the sodding rules say he has to.
Go back to old qually. Saturday, 1 hour. 12 laps. Or perhaps 10 fast laps with pit in/out laps not counting. 2 fast laps to be done every 15 minutes so we don't get chaos at the end and boring scenes at the beginning. Points for taking pole. Points for fastest laps. At least 4 or 5 points difference between 1st and 2nd. Giving 2nd 8 points for keeping safe isn't game.
Any more new F1 rules as I think of them! ;D
Amen. Long been fed up with Lewis and the touring fan club.
I love Kimi since he just doesn't give a crap about sponsors or fans or interviews. He's probably the most "boring" F1 driver on the grid but since he just drives and does nothing else, I absolutely admire him. I think F1 needs more "characters" who don't conform to the standards F1 drivers are forced to. Characters such as Mansell, Senna, Irvine etc.
That's why i like Alonso more and more now, he is fun lol
I did like Kimi in Singapor, everyone was talking about how the sleep patterns where all out of whack etc, Kimi said 'I sleep when i am tired and wake up when i wake up' Fantastic, none of this noncing around lol
MarcLister
20-10-2008, 13:18
That's why i like Alonso more and more now, he is fun lol
I did like Kimi in Singapor, everyone was talking about how the sleep patterns where all out of whack etc, Kimi said 'I sleep when i am tired and wake up when i wake up' Fantastic, none of this noncing around lolGood god! How could I forget Alonso. :D
Remember Kimi in Brazil a few years ago? Brundle walks up and asks Kimi why he's late to the grid. "I was having a s**t." ;D
Who else in F1 now would have said that. :evil:
I'd never seen that before, I googled it and found this (http://tinyurl.com/6qnysy). My did I laugh in the office!
/edit - had to tinyurl the link because the filter changed it to **** ;D
MarcLister
20-10-2008, 13:42
That's the one. I love Brundle's face. He looks as if he's just walked into a trap. :D
Just imagine what Ron would do if Lewis said anything like that.
Flibster
20-10-2008, 14:20
It was Kimi's face that made me laugh. That mischievous grin - he knew exactly what he was doing. :D
Brundles comment about the light car was a good comeback as well.
Justsomebloke
20-10-2008, 14:47
I Love Kimi & Alonso, to me they are the 2 best F1 racers with Alonso edging it on driving but Kimi wins hands down on attitude.
MarcLister
20-10-2008, 19:27
It was Kimi's face that made me laugh. That mischievous grin - he knew exactly what he was doing. :D
Brundles comment about the light car was a good comeback as well.
I Love Kimi & Alonso, to me they are the 2 best F1 racers with Alonso edging it on driving but Kimi wins hands down on attitude.
Wholeheartedly agree. :)
Miss_Lainey
02-11-2008, 20:17
That was painful to watch!!!
MarcLister
02-11-2008, 20:48
Painful how? :D
All I can say is
GET IN THERE!!!!!
Woot, glad he won for Britain.
http://www.thisisgav.co.uk/tmp/massa_daddy.jpg
TinkerBell
02-11-2008, 21:27
Wooooo Hooooo, that was an amazing race, just how it should be done, the boy did well! :D I loved it when the ferrari garage shot was shown! Hahah!!
Bravo to Lewis!
Knipples
02-11-2008, 21:43
For Sale:
1 x 'Felipe Massa 2008 World Champion' T-shirt
Still in wrapper, nearly opened
No sensible offers refused
;D
that was an amazing race
Really?
I thought it was beyond boring for about 75% of the race, with some vague interest at the start and then an awesomely exciting finish.
I'm pleased that Lewis won but that was such a fluke at what, two corners from the finish?
Loved the scene in the Ferrari garage :D
MarcLister
02-11-2008, 23:15
Really?
I thought it was beyond boring for about 75% of the race, with some vague interest at the start and then an awesomely exciting finish.Pretty ruddy boring I have to agree. It was the last 2-3 laps that made it exciting for me.
Del Lardo
02-11-2008, 23:54
How Lewis won the race ;)
http://www.pertheus.co.uk/pics/1386821hamilton-f1.gif
and the Ferrari reaction.
http://www.pertheus.co.uk/pics/fez.gif
I'm pleased that Lewis won but that was such a fluke at what, two corners from the finish?
No fluke at all. He was only sixth because Glock was in front of him due to deciding to stay out on dry tyres. That same decision backfired at the very end as he could barely keep it on the island and was passed by a load of cars, Hamilton included. If he'd done what everyone else did and pitted for inters then Hamilton would have maintained his fifth place.
Loved the scene in the Ferrari garage :D
Agreed. Have seen some say Massa and his family didn't deserve that crushing "downer" after the elation of thinking they'd won but that's their fault for celebrating prematurely.
Fact remains that, IMHO, Massa didn't deserve to win the championship this year. He's been gifted nine points he didn't deserve/earn and Hamilton should have won the title a few races ago.
No fluke at all.
Well it was, as if it had only rained slightly less than it did, Glock would have kept his speed up, his inters would have been less effective and he'd have missed out.
To be honest, he had a fairly awful race today. There is driving conservatively because you only need fifth place and then there is doing it so conservatively that you end up almost losing a whole championship 2 laps from the end.
He should never have been as vulnerable as he was to that happening.
He was lucky to get away with it today, very lucky.
He was lucky to get away with it today, very lucky.
It's called tactics, it wasn't luck. McLaren planned it and they got the right tactic Glock had nothing to lose so went for it.
It's not as if they just guess rain, the amount of wearthr forecasting equipment they have is phaniominal.
You think tactically they wanted to be in a losing position two corners from the end?
Glocks penultimate lap was bang on time, only his last lap did he slow, so until that point, they wouldn't have known he was going to be slow enough to be caught. If that rain had been but 1 minute later, they would have lost it.
Feel free to believe McLaren tactically planned that race down to the minute and two corners, i'll continue to say he was damned lucky to get away with it.
Like I said, he should never have been left to get in a position so vulnerable to that happening in the first place.
tactically they thought it was going to rain hard enough to put the slick tyre boys out of position, which it did.
semi-pro waster
03-11-2008, 19:53
tactically they thought it was going to rain hard enough to put the slick tyre boys out of position, which it did.
I think tactics and luck might have coincided here slightly. Tactically they were proven right by choosing that strategy but it is a shade fortunate that the rain didn't hold off another couple of minutes as that would have meant their tactics were wrong.
I think tactics and luck might have coincided here slightly. Tactically they were proven right by choosing that strategy but it is a shade fortunate that the rain didn't hold off another couple of minutes as that would have meant their tactics were wrong.
Yes. Hence it was a bit of a fluke, which is what I said :)
I think tactics and luck might have coincided here slightly. Tactically they were proven right by choosing that strategy but it is a shade fortunate that the rain didn't hold off another couple of minutes as that would have meant their tactics were wrong.
or it a shame there was any rain or lewis would off been several places ahead. All what ifs. Tactically they made the right decisions. You can play what ifs all year. At the end of the day though, they choose the right tactic.
LeperousDust
03-11-2008, 22:01
It's not as if they just guess rain, the amount of wearthr forecasting equipment they have is phaniominal.
Actually to be fair, don't they all use the same radar feed since they don't own their own satellites, so really there isn't much more you can forecast with the same radar feeds. ALL the teams have excellent equipment for forecasting with the data the have hold of. Usually their forecasts just differ by a few minutes. Like at the beginning Ferrari where saying it won't rain for another 40 minutes and Maclaren 30 (or maybe the other way round) but in forecasting terms theres nothing in that with margins of error.
LeperousDust
03-11-2008, 22:03
or it a shame there was any rain or lewis would off been several places ahead. All what ifs. Tactically they made the right decisions. You can play what ifs all year. At the end of the day though, they choose the right tactic.
Well you're right at the end of the day it can and does end in flukes, things blow up and stop working at the worst time these are also examples of flukes that have happened in the past. Its still a big game of luck that you can try your best to out wit with "tactics" but you're only hedging bets really :D
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