View Full Version : Copyright Laws...
... I am sure I swotted up on all of this last year but this area started to fade a bit and I just thought I would ask you peoples your opinions.
Some of my work is representative of TV/film, like the below:
http://www.akettleoffish.co.uk/pheebsupload/BD/082408-David-DrWhoK9andTardis.png
Am I right in thinking that because it is my own drawing and interpretation, I could have it published without the worry of treading on anyones toes copyright wise?
leowyatt
23-10-2008, 10:56
It was my understanding that if the object you are portraying is copyrighted then you can't :confused: Not sure if those are, I know Apple had some barney with a company using a similar logo.
I thought that but I recall somewhere something about if it's your interpretation then you're okay...
Like tv spoofs and things (though now I'm thinking they have some contractual agreement with companies in order to do so...)
Argh!!
*goes off to dig out copyright laws again*
It's going to be a minefield in my opinion. If I drew a picture that were clearly Star Wars characters and printed them on to t-shirts, I'd expect my arse to be sued. The fact that I created my interpretation of the picture is irrelevant. Of course, I could be talking complete bollocks as I don't actually know for sure.
Just called up the gov IP people and the first lady I spoke to said it was fine although she's now referred me to a specific department and I'm being called back.
The example I gave her was "If I have drawn a poster full of stickmen and each stickmen had references to different films ie Star Wars, Aliens, BFG, James Bond etc would I be infringing copyrights or not?"
*hmmm*
Not convinced. I'll wait for a call back and let you's know :)
Weenicons do what I'm wondering about - they have TONNES of stuff like this baywatch one for sale in a variety of stores:
http://blufiles.storage.msn.com/y1pMCuT_pC8z8MrDWP-VIc3LExkOvDJpuK8XPangYjQ6_ID-5fvwlc1DIESx7Lu1hYYqtXdUcqy8eM?PARTNER=WRITER
and Jules and Vince:
http://www.easycardsandgifts.co.uk/product_thumb.php?img=images/weenicons-11.jpg&w=200&h=198
*wonders how they've got round it all*
*wonders how they've got round it all*
Could always just email and ask, worst that'll happen is they'll just not reply, best scenario they'll tell you how it all works :p
Matblack
23-10-2008, 11:12
Its very dubious ground, there are exceptions to copyright under 'parody' from what I can make out so you might get away with it but its hard to decern and it would appear that these cases often go to court to get solved. I would speak to your publisher/ distributor about whether what you have done there is acceptable. I would say that with a brand like Doctor Who the BBC would be very keen to protect their copywrite and might consult a lawyer. If you we're doing it for profit and purely as a comedy exercise you'd probably get away with it.
MB
I know their representatives fairly well (Urban Graphics). To be honest I'm still holding out hope that I can break my work into their webby/under their belt so don't feel it's right to go asking questions that will probably seem stupidly daft to them ;D
Thanks MB for your insight!
As for publisher... currently I am the publisher ;) Slight problem there! Hehehee!
It's not a major issue as most of my work is of my own entirely - it's only the odd exception like above. I've had some GENIUS ideas lately though (well I say lately - it's been something I have been wanting to do since I was about 16! Well I did do it but it wasn't to the 1337 standard it could be and I believe my friend still has it ;D) and it would be stepping on about at least 200 films/tv people all in one picture. Which... is why I'm curious!
Matblack
23-10-2008, 11:19
Very interesting
I notice that the Weenicons make no direct reference to source in fact they go out of their way not to. See the actual card names? ;)
There is one thing in your picture which makes a direct reference which might be contentious IMO and thats the lettering on K9 which directly links to the copywriten character rather than represents it and allow for personal interpretation.
Also shouldn't that be Tom Baker, who did after all spend a lot more time with K9 and is easier to represent :D
MB
lol!
Nerr to Tom Baker :p
Hehehe!
Good observation on the whole weenicons side.... thing is what I'm planning to do would involve direct quotes which is my major worry.
I'm really intrigued to see what comes back from the copyright office people though :)
Matblack
23-10-2008, 11:27
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1953364/Doctor-Who's-new-enemy-the-BBC-lawyers.html
BBC have been pretty defensive of the DW brand in the past, but there is mention there of genuine artistic changes from the original, which your has.
However, there is a debate over whether the patterns represent enough of a transformation from the original to justify a new copyright.
So maybe, maybe not, I still think blantantly putting K9 on the side of the metal dog is asking for trouble [IMO he doesn't look quite right without him little nose tube either]
MB
Oooh good find!
I can see the problem with K9 on the side. Hmmm depending on what I hear back and research in the next couple of days, if I decide to take on my mini project (well... it's huge really) then I will be sure not to put things like "K9" onto it.
My idea will take me... ages. So I'm not starting it until I know for sure it's worth all my time and effort.
Seriously though. It will be awesomely genius if I can do it.
Are you thinking of expanding the idea you did for the cards for Emily at work into a full range?
Nope.
Well I would probably put some of the stuff onto cards and not be so worried!
This is a new-ish style/brand idea though so would be done as an aside to what I am doing now :)
semi-pro waster
23-10-2008, 12:20
I've done some basic IP law at uni so I'll have a look through my textbook in the next couple of days and see what it has to say regarding exceptions but as has been said it is a rather gray area. It might be worth your while emailing fini from OcUK, if memory serves he is doing his masters on IP law and seems to have a good grounding in it.
Cheers SPW. Just posted on OC to see their response. Couldn't find a way to PM fini directly so have gone about it by asking the whole forum!
Matblack
23-10-2008, 12:54
They don't allow PMs over there, search on this name in advanced search and have a look at his posts he may have a link to his email or a trust account
MB
Yeh I figured that far MB :( No email or nada hence why I started a thread in the GD.
Don't know whether he'll see it but it's the best I can doo! :D
My understanding is that you can create something from a copyrighted piece of work as long as it is substantially different enough to be called yours and not theirs. I think this goes above copyright and into IP laws and things because can Dr Who be copyrighted? The stories, the tv show can be but its iffy. I'm currently dealing with something sorta similar. I took a photo in York Minster and the interior is actually copyrighted to the Dean. So if I want to use it then I have to pay a fee. However they want to use the image as they like it so we may both waive our fees so we can both use the image. Absolutely crazy.
Hummmmmmdiggity.
Well still waiting for a phone call back from the IP gov peoples... they sure do take forever!
I will let you all know what they say when I find out :)
semi-pro waster
23-10-2008, 17:56
Ok, I've got back and looked out the book, I'd rather forgotten how weighty the sodding thing is - "thick enough to choke a donkey" as an old lecturer of mine used to say, he never did mention why he was into donkey choking though. As a general rule you may be permitted acts that would otherwise be considered infringing (i.e. technically utilising someone elses IP) provided they do not unduly interfere with the owners commercial exploitation of the work - which you should be ok on, I rather doubt you are going for the same markets. However you may fall foul if they consider it to be derogatory treatment of their copyright, you can probably argue 'affectionate' parody or something similar (that's not a legal term in case you wondered) but it could involve lawyers.
You can create an artistic work from a literary one and not infringe copyright apparantly Bridget Foley Ltd v Elliott [1982] RPC 433 but I don't know if that could be transposed from dramatic work to artistic. Although precedents are not entirely favourable in that copying from a 3D object to 2D can infringe copyright and vice versa. Basic tests here, is there copying and secondly if there is copying does it form a substantial part of the work?
There is the issue of non-literal copying and levels of abstraction from the original but I wouldn't get too in-depth on that one.
Your best defence is probably that you are creating an adaptation and parody of the work(s), however if you can then I'd simply request permission from the copyright holders. It should avoid any potential legal wrangles and is much safer than relying on the opinions of anyone else in the area, no matter how educated (and I've not done any real studying for a couple of years now so I'm a bad person to supply advice). I hope fini or someone who knows more gets back to you, my information is largely taken from the Intellectual Property 6th Edition by David Bainbridge so my apologies to him if I've misinterpreted what he said. If you need me to look up specifics then I can do so but condensing the topic of IP law into a relatively small post is not going to happen.
Wowee! How interesting!
Thank you soo much for putting your time and effort into that :) It's muchly appreciated!
I will do some more research but based on what you have said it could well be worth my time and bother to do what I am planning.
As for obtaining permission from the copyright holders - I think I would seriously struggle as I would need the permission of literally hundreds of copyright holders all for one piece of artwork (indeed a large piece of artwork but still one).
I'm not quite sure how I would go about a) finding who owns copyright to say... Jurassic Park and then b) how to write to request and c) how long it will take to get a response - if I get one!
It's frustrating in a way because I have a niggly feeling that if I were to contact all these film copyright owner people I would either get turned down (despite the work being of minimum focus on them) or be asked for royalties (and one piece of art work really isn't going to make enough money to dish out royalties to everyone).
*hmmm hmm hmmM*
Food for thought.
Will keep on researching and see if there's a way - not around it - but to ensure I don't upset people without having to contact them all individually. Maybe I can put a public protest up to using their... well... their ideas/scenes/quotes translated to my own work and if they're not happy they can contact me. I'm sure there's something like that (I know to get TM for property when you submit your TM people have I think a year to protest and if no successful protest occurs it's then your own... maybe there's something similar?)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Aww I hope I can do this because it will be the mutts nuts.
Thank you soo soo much again SPW :)
And the rest of you lot :) Thank you too!
As for obtaining permission from the copyright holders - I think I would seriously struggle as I would need the permission of literally hundreds of copyright holders all for one piece of artwork (indeed a large piece of artwork but still one).
Well if it's mostly films, I suspect the publishers are the ones who hold the copyright, so if you compiled a list of the films you wanted to use and their respective publishers, you could probably send out relatively few letters asking about lots of films at once.
Well if it's mostly films, I suspect the publishers are the ones who hold the copyright, so if you compiled a list of the films you wanted to use and their respective publishers, you could probably send out relatively few letters asking about lots of films at once.
*to toys r us theme choon*
There's a magical person
Who's so very cleever
With ideas in their millions
All under their hair!
He's a - Gee Knee Us!
Good point mister!! Taken on board!
Pheebs, I just accidentally stumbled upon this, which appears to be relevant:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7400268.stm
Copyright people called me and said to get permission of peoples to be safe.
BUmtastic.
This will take forever and I'm sure loads will say no which will ruin it all! Hopefully they won't be big heads and think that because of their little tiny contribution - of my own interpretation - to something so huuuge is going to be the reason people buy it and copying their own work... well they're egotistical twits!
I will work on this project once I manage to get everything else in line :)
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.