View Full Version : Any Bravia owners here?
Tempted by the £599 deal at Comet for the KDL40V4000 but not sure what this set is like, particularly with an HTPC and don't want to leap before I look. The W4000 can be had for another £150-ish and don't know whether it's worth the extra.
Anyone here got any of the Bravia range and can share their experiences?
leowyatt
24-10-2008, 21:01
Best place I can suggest is avforums.com have a search on there and you'll find a section on LCD tvs and you can search for that model on there :)
Tempted by the £599 deal at Comet for the KDL40V4000 but not sure what this set is like, particularly with an HTPC and don't want to leap before I look. The W4000 can be had for another £150-ish and don't know whether it's worth the extra.
Anyone here got any of the Bravia range and can share their experiences?
I have the D3000, its great for HTPC via hdmi you can tweak every screen setting going, darks are not great (but its LCD only down fall) but colour is crisp and no screen tearing or ghosting on my set. Sony LCD have that better build quality feel. Speakers are great.
The W and V are newer models than mine so I would think they are even better screens.
Sony have always had issues with black levels, but the Bravia range was a huge improvement on their previous generation (which, if you find, you should touch with a bargepole - right in the middle of the screen, hard).
LCD can't match Plasma for black levels and IMO overall picture quality. FullHD sets will be 1920x1080 on either tech so given the choice, i'd be taking the Plasma every time.
Previously, the only two real advantages LCD had as a tech were better PC compatibility and lower power consumption. Now it just has the power consumption to its name IMO.
Well I was originally looking at plasma but I'm now erring towards LCD, partly because the tech has caught up a lot with plasma but mainly because it'll be used for console gaming and I'm petrified of burn-in on a plasma. This is one thing that plasmas still suffer from but which LCDs don't.
The other thing LCD has going for it is price. £599 for a 40" full HD panel is a stonking deal, surely?
Burn in really isn't half as much of an issue on modern plasmas as it was even as recently as 18 months back, and LCD can suffer from burn in too, my Samsung LCD monitor will attest to that if I accidentally leave it on when I go out for a weekend and the power saving doesn't turn it off ;)
The price is only cheaper because they're not as good :p
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 00:46
Our 42" 720P Panasonic plasma cost us just over £600 and has no problem with burn in if treated correctly and image retention is ok too if you take care of the screen :)
Picture looks top notch though ;)
Even my old plasma doesn't have a major problem, though I admit I don't use it nearly as much as I probably should given how much I paid (I got done, but never mind that). Simple precautions - don't wind up the brightness too high, and don't leave static images on the screen for hours.
I do get some image retention but that's easily cleared by playing something fast moving (action scene, sports etc.)
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 09:37
To combat any image retention problems I always put a TV channel on with static for a couple of minutes before the TV goes off.
I'm looking at new TVs at the moment and it's all very confusing. Going to AVForums just adds to the complexity TBH as the range of opinions there is so huge and there's always the fact that people have very subjective views. The main problem however, is that you can't even rely on your own impression of a TV that you see in the shop because there's virtually zero chance of the units you're looking at being set up even remotely well and certainly not to compare fairly. As a result, buying a TV is a nightmare and I just don't trust anyone's opinion, even my own! :D
I think I'm just going to buy a Sony and almost certainly an LCD because I'll be using a PS3. Plasma might be "better" for absolute picture quality but I don't think I'll be sitting on my couch criticising the red hues, blackness and so on.
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 11:30
As you just using it for the PS3? nothing else, only games?
As you just using it for the PS3? nothing else, only games?
Well not just games, we do watch some TV but it's mostly (95%) downloaded stuff. I do have cable but it's mostly rubbish TBH - I keep meaning to get rid of it or reduce all the channels but I never get round to it :S
Before I had the PS3 I didn't really play games either other than CS:S on the PC occasionally.
I think I'm just going to buy a Sony and almost certainly an LCD because I'll be using a PS3. Plasma might be "better" for absolute picture quality but I don't think I'll be sitting on my couch criticising the red hues, blackness and so on.
Funny you say that, as if you'd said to me primary use would be PS3, i'd have said plasma.
Though it's really not a case of criticising hues and blackness, the differences can be startling. Like Kitten says, once you've watched a decent plasma for a while, LCDs eternally seem like they're set up wrong, they just can't compete. I suppose if you never see a plasma, then 'ignorance is bliss' and an LCD will probably seem fine to.
In the meantime, i'm trying to do a sort of comparison in photoshop to 'illustrate' the differences but it's proving harder than i thought to make the 'LCD' blacks appear as they oft do on screen without ruining the rest of the picture :p
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 12:31
Well if you aren't watching much movies, etc then LCD is better for you :) To be honest the best way of using the avforums is to read the reviews of TVs you are after from places like what hifi and home cinema choice and then find the owners thread and see what people think or say about it.
As an example, when our Samsung Plasma went back and we got a refund I was originally looking at an LG plasma which looked very nice and the reviews were extremely promising. However after reading the owners thread I found out it suffered terribly from image retention so I went for our Panasonic instead :)
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 12:35
i'm sure she'd go for the LCD every time *shrugs*
Don't be so sure ;)
Well if you aren't watching much movies, etc then LCD is better for you :)
On what basis?
If you look at Plasmas, Pioneer and Panasonic are the brands to go with, they're head and shoulders above anyone else at the moment.
Here is my somewhat stylised 'artists impression' of the difference between LCD and Plasma. Obviously, it has to be stylised as chances are most people will be looking at it through an LCD anyway :p
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/richyj/lcdplasma.jpg
edit - ffs, i should really check things on both screens, those barely look any different on this one :/
edit 2 - should look ok now, hopefully...
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 12:44
On what basis?
No offense here Daz or Davey but seeing the 360 on their LCDs it looks extremely whereas normal telly doesn't look as good. If he's using it primarily for the PS3 then I'd say an LCD might be a better choice.
Have you compared a 360 running on a Plasma though? It looks even better than it does on an LCD.
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 12:48
I own a Plasma divine, do you read posts :p
Imagine retention is still a problem but not as bad as it was but if he's just using it for the PS3 then I'd say LCD is probably his best bet. I haven't seen a PS3 running on a plasma so can't comment on that, only seem my 360.
I do but I rarely remember who was writing them :p
Maybe if he uses it for his PS3 and never anything else. Like I said, retention is better than it was even as recently as 18 months back and for pretty much any usage now will beat an LCD for image quality and ease of use (for example HTPCs used to be a pain as plasma res was 1024x768 but with rectangular pixels so it was a pain display a PC output well). If he watches TV, thinks he might pick up the odd bluray etc. i'd definitely be wanting the plasma.
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 12:59
haha you goldfish :p
I can't fault out Plasma and bought it because we watch lots of films and a fair amount of TV so picture quality was paramount. I have to say being sensible with your plasma there is no real reason not to get one. I might sound like I'm contradicting myself here but I think for his usage which an LCD is a good idea especially as he won't have the 1024x768 res. I've got our HTPC connected to our plasma and everything looks great, watched a 720p copy of IronMan and it looked awesome.
On what basis?
If you look at Plasmas, Pioneer and Panasonic are the brands to go with, they're head and shoulders above anyone else at the moment.
Here is my somewhat stylised 'artists impression' of the difference between LCD and Plasma. Obviously, it has to be stylised as chances are most people will be looking at it through an LCD anyway :p
:huh: Surely if the difference was anything like that obvious, there wouldn't even be a market for LCD! :confused:
Incidentally, I'm looking at the Sony KDL46W4500 as being the best candidate so far. I've only seen one in a shop so far but as ever, it probably wasn't set up correctly. Even so, it was the best out of the range that they had (actually, the 40" version was the best).
leowyatt
25-10-2008, 13:11
It's all down to preference though as you'll have doubt seen from the avforums. Almost every thing is carefully monitored so it doesn't descend into a plasma vs lcd debate. Some say that for gaming nothing can touch LCD for quality and colours, others say nothing can touch Plasma for natural picture quality. At the end of the day it comes down to what you want and what you like. If you like the Sony LCDs then good luck to you :)
Once you get it have a look for the best settings in the owners thread. Infact try hdtvtest.org for a review and their settings tend to be the best.
It's not quite that obvious but i've exaggerated the difference a little to make the point.
But it is an inherent flaw in the technology, being backlit.
If you like, think of LCD like a series of windows and Plasma as a series of lights.
To make a red pixel on LCD, you open the 'curtain' over the red glass, with a bright white light behind it, so you see red. On a plasma, you turn on the red light. To make a white pixel on LCD, you open all the curtains and they blend into white, with Plasma you turn on all the lights and they blend to white. To make a black pixel on LCD, you close all the curtains but the bright white light is still on, with Plasma, you just have all the lights off.
When you think of it like this, a black curtain with a bright white light behind it will never be as dark or black as something with no light at all.
What this amounts to is poor rendition of darker colours and blacks because past a certain point the panel physically cant make the display appear any darker because there is a huge bright backlight that can't be turned off.
I'm personally of the opinion that if you're likely to ever use it for watching TV or Films, then a Plasma is the only way to go. I think films can verge on unwatchable on LCD as the picture quality just isn't up to it.
Even that's not as clearcut as it suggests because, to continue the analogy, some LCD panels have better 'curtains' than others, and some Plasmas don't do so well at turning the lights off (mostly down to the electronics).
My Dell 2707WFP for example does pretty well and it's what I use for all my day-to-day activities, including TV. The plasma in the living room isn't usable at the moment for various reasons, but I'd actually argue the blacks on this LCD are better than that plasma (and it was the very top-of-the range 43in Pioneer when I got it, though that's about 5 years ago now). That also has an HTPC permanently connected and it works fine.
In the final outcome, it's subjective. Yes, the best Plasmas still have the edge on the best LCDs for PQ but LCDs have the edge on resolution, power, and image retention.
I used to be a big exponent of Plasma over LCD myself but I have to confess that LCD has made enormous strides lately, and especially in the last 12 months or so. The black levels are catching up with plasma fast and the difference shown in divine's pics is just no longer the case. Plasmas do still have strengths over LCDs but they also have some weaknesses and it's still very much down to personal preference.
I've now ordered the Sony KDL40V4000 with BDPS350 Bluray player from John Lewis for £698 delivered with 5-year warranty as frankly that deal was just too good to miss.
That's a damn good price. Comet are currently running TV ads with that combo for £599 but that's without the warranty.
Divine said most things I wanted to contribute tbh. In my experience, there is no way I will advice anyone to buy LCD. The black level details alone is enough reason not to buy one. I have a Panny Viera 42inch plasma tv and everything just look good on it.
Having said that. I am buying a 32inch lcd soon and am torn between the Sony 32v4000 or the Panasonic TX-32LXD70. I know I mentioned I wouldn't advice anyone to buy LCD, but in this case I am after a specific size and have a limited space and budget
That's a damn good price. Comet are currently running TV ads with that combo for £599 but that's without the warranty.
John Lewis are doing the set alone for £599 but only Comet are doing the player for £99 extra. Got the local JL to price match them so I get their 5 year warranty too :)
Aha. Sneaky! I like your style. :D
El, personal choice of course, but I'd go with the Panasonic (indeed I nearly got its little brother six months ago but in the end I decided I didn't need a 26in LCD in the bedroom and got the cheapest integrated 19in LCD I could find). I believe that model is a Which! Best Buy too (as are most of the rest of the Panny range).
Divine said most things I wanted to contribute tbh. In my experience, there is no way I will advice anyone to buy LCD. The black level details alone is enough reason not to buy one. I have a Panny Viera 42inch plasma tv and everything just look good on it.
Having said that. I am buying a 32inch lcd soon and am torn between the Sony 32v4000 or the Panasonic TX-32LXD70. I know I mentioned I wouldn't advice anyone to buy LCD, but in this case I am after a specific size and have a limited space and budget
I find it hard to agree that the LCD is so much worse than plasma. My (admittedly subjective) view is that from what I've seen of plasmas vs LCDs, the plasmas tend to look a bit "fuzzier", more like a CRT image. Perhaps it's because I spend most of my day staring at an LCD monitor, I don't know, but the latest LCDs look amazing to me especially when used as a computer monitor or playing PS3 games. As I said before, it's hard to get an objective view because no-one's going to set up an LCD and plasma for me, and then let me watch a number of different sources. Ideally, I'd like to see the latest Sony KDL W series, set up properly, vs a plasma for a similar cost. I guess that's the problem with the Internet - it's a double-edged sword because it's made people more willing to hunt for a lowest price and high-street shops less willing to provide proper demos.
Divine said most things I wanted to contribute tbh. In my experience, there is no way I will advice anyone to buy LCD. The black level details alone is enough reason not to buy one. I have a Panny Viera 42inch plasma tv and everything just look good on it.
Having said that. I am buying a 32inch lcd soon and am torn between the Sony 32v4000 or the Panasonic TX-32LXD70. I know I mentioned I wouldn't advice anyone to buy LCD, but in this case I am after a specific size and have a limited space and budget
I picked up the 32V4000 on Monday and love it, I think I need to play with the settings slightly, but since I have no idea whether or not it would be better I'm leaving it standard. Still looks gorgeous though :D
I'm now ever more confused than ever. I saw that Richer Sounds have stated stocking the Sony KDL46W4500 so that means I can get a price match from John Lewis if necessary. I just visited Sound and Vision in Bolton - it's the first time I've seen a decent number of TVs set up properly. Unfortunately, going in there with my mind made up about an LCD, a very decent salesman took me and the wife through the various specs, features and details of the Panasonic Vieras versus the Sony LCDs. Sure enough, the plasma looked much better on the SD stuff - not surprising I suppose though there wasn't much in the HD stuff. However, he also showed us the Pioneer Kuro playing Transformers Blu-Ray which was probably the best picture I've seen. I mentioned that I'd be using a PS3 and he said the plasma would do all the freeview SD much better and that the games would look as good or better as well. As for screen burn, there shouldn't be an issue and the longevity of the panels works out in the decades.
I've arranged to take my laptop there to see how a plasma functions as a monitor...
Totally confused now :confused:
Before you take the laptop, find out what the native resolution of the Kuro is and see if the laptop can get close. Bear in mind Plasmas do tend to have a lower native resolution than LCDs (though this is less true for the high-end models like the Kuro), which may affect your decision and impressions when using a Laptop. I have a Pioneer plasma (a few generations back from the Kuro), and while it's great for pictures from my HTPC, I don't like it so much for text.
I might be wrong but i'm pretty sure the entire Kuro range is FullHD and as such is 1920x1080.
The old problem plasma had at 720p was they used a 1024x768 panel with rectangular pixels which absolutely blew for using a PC or something on, as you say. New ones at 1080p are much better and essentially perform no differently with regards the sharpness/fuzziness of text.
Told you plasma was better though ;) The Kuro range is an absolutely sublime set of TVs.
That's good to hear.
If I could justify replacing my 4yo Plasma, I would, but I want several more years out of the current one given I paid £3,000 for it (yeah, I got done - I found it for half that price a month later and the shop concerned went bust soon after that).
leowyatt
07-11-2008, 00:21
The old problem plasma had at 720p was they used a 1024x768 panel with rectangular pixels which absolutely blew for using a PC or something on, as you say.
Tell you what my 360 looked amazing 1024x768 over VGA compares to component or VGA at 720p!!!
I'm entirely sure if that comment is supposed to be agreeing/disagreeing or is just a random fact you felt like slipping in :p
leowyatt
07-11-2008, 00:30
I'm entirely sure if that comment is supposed to be agreeing/disagreeing or is just a random fact you felt like slipping in :p
hahah basically I'm saying bollocks to the fact that you are saying it doesn't look good! :p
As Mark suggested go for the native resolution for your TV. If you can afford a Full HD then go for it but for me 1024x768 on my 360 looks sweet for everything from games to HD movies :D
Well, like I said, i'm 99% sure the entire Kuro range is 1920x1080 anyway, so it doesn't matter if he goes for one of those.
A 360 however, is not a PC though, which means your point is somewhat irrelevant to what I said about them looking poor on the odd aspect pixels of an old 720p plasma TV.
I hate admitting I was wrong about this whole issue :o
The Kuro we saw last night was 1920x1080. The salesman described it as "the best TV in the world" which I thought was quite a claim. I've never seen better myself of course but the best there is? Turns out that the various review sites agree as well but what i couldn't get over is the price. OK, so it's over £2K but isn't that a bit cheap for the "best"? The guy gestured over at the TV and I just assumed it would be 4K or 6K, etc. so it was really surprising when he said around £2,400. It makes me wonder why someone would go for one of the Sony X or Z type TVs which are substantially more than that. One downside is that you have to buy an amplifier and speakers separately for the Kuro. Apparently this is so people can buy just the panel and provide their own sound system which makes sense I suppose.
Looking forward to seeing some of the Panasonic Vieras now :)
leowyatt
07-11-2008, 10:47
Kuro is believed to be the best out there at the moment. If you spend any time on the avforums you'll see if anyone has a big budget the Kuros will get recommended as they are stunning.
Aha. Sneaky! I like your style. :D
El, personal choice of course, but I'd go with the Panasonic (indeed I nearly got its little brother six months ago but in the end I decided I didn't need a 26in LCD in the bedroom and got the cheapest integrated 19in LCD I could find). I believe that model is a Which! Best Buy too (as are most of the rest of the Panny range).
The panasonic lcd comes with 100hz, and from what I have read, it is a feature one cannot turn off and apparently gives the image a "big brother cam look" [You know when viewers are made to watch from the perspective of one of those camera on Big Brother?...Apparently something like that]:confused: :confused: So for now, all eyes on the sony.
As I said before, it's hard to get an objective view because no-one's going to set up an LCD and plasma for me, and then let me watch a number of different sources.
Richer sounds should allow you to do that. :) Not sure if they will allow you to connect you own external sources though.
I picked up the 32V4000 on Monday and love it, I think I need to play with the settings slightly, but since I have no idea whether or not it would be better I'm leaving it standard. Still looks gorgeous though :D
Lucky you. I was meant to pick up end of this month, but I was way over-budget and had to wait till end of this month now.
Please tell me more about it and if you can, please bless my curiosity with some pictures. Thanks.
By the way, there are recommended settings on the avforums.
The panasonic lcd comes with 100hz, and from what I have read, it is a feature one cannot turn off and apparently gives the image a "big brother cam look" [You know when viewers are made to watch from the perspective of one of those camera on Big Brother?...Apparently something like that]:confused: :confused: So for now, all eyes on the sony.
I've never experienced 100Hz on an LCD so I can't comment, though I can understand why it might be trouble. 100Hz was beneficial for a CRT but I'm not convinced for LCD use.
Not all the Vieras have that feature, however.
leowyatt
07-11-2008, 14:26
We have 100Hz on our Panasonic Plasma and have never had any trouble with the picture :/
I've never experienced 100Hz on an LCD so I can't comment, though I can understand why it might be trouble. 100Hz was beneficial for a CRT but I'm not convinced for LCD use.
Not all the Vieras have that feature, however.
Well, it's not the same thing really, on LCDs it is a post processing feature creating extra frames in the video, on a CRT that wasn't what it was doing at all. An LCD doesn't have a 'refresh rate' in the same sense a CRT does, as the individual pixels only refresh as and when they need to for the most part.
If the LCD in question isn't very good at this, it can really ruin the picture.
Well, like I said, i'm 99% sure the entire Kuro range is 1920x1080 anyway, so it doesn't matter if he goes for one of those.
No, there are HD ready Kuros.
The 1080p Kuros cost the earth. Yes they're the best out there but so they damn well should be at the price tbh :)
So there are, all of the XD models it would seem, so avoid those and you're grand.
Well, having got it all set up, I have to say I'm damned impressed with this Sony. Ok plasmas (and Kuros in particular) may be better in some regards but for 600 quid this thing is a steal.
I also went for the BDP-S350 player for £99 and it's superb. Iron Man in 1080p/24 is utterly stunning. I've also only just discovered that Sony are running a promotion whereby, if you register the player online, they send you Batman Begins and Casino Royale on blu-ray for free - result!
Overall very very happy with the purchase.
Lucky man. Good choice and am jealous tbh.
I was in John Lewis in Manchester and they've got a room with a couch that you can view some of the TVs in. There's a Philips LCD in the centre, a Sony KDL-46W4500 to the left and a Pioneer 5090 to the right. All three were playing HD content and all three looked excellent except that the Pio's colour looked a bit too saturated. The odd thing was that I couldn't really tell any difference between the three though the Pio was suffering from a bad setup I think.
I'm sure that the plasma *does* offer the better picture but TBH, it's twice as expensive as the Sony and there's still the risk of burn-in. I know they say that the new plasmas don't suffer as they did but having read AV Forums, there are many who suggest that you don't play games at all for the first 100 hours or more and then if you do, limit game-play to a couple of hours maximum. I'm also bound to forget one day - the phone will ring or the door bell will go and I'll forget I've left my PS3 on a static image. No doubt that will be a permanently burned-in image.
In bright rooms, plasmas suffer a bit - our living room opens out to a very large glass area so in the day time it's very bright. At night I have the glow from a marine aquarium as well so the room is never *that* dark. The Pio is also right at the limit for size (probably too big actually).
I'm back to the Sony again. Sick of all this TBH :/
On the plus side, John Lewis are going to price match apparently :)
The best advice about the first 100 hours on a Plasma is simply (regardless of source) don't crank up the brightness, and after that, if you have to up the brightness, do it gradually. Having said that, games do tend to be vivid which is probably what lead to the gaming advice. That may well be a problem for you if you have to compete against a lot of light, so maybe the LCD is the right choice for you.
It was the risk of burn-in (together with the bargain on the Sony) that made me get an LCD rather than a plasma. As mentioned, regardless of the manufacturers claims and pro-plasma propaganda from some quarters, they do still stuffer from retention. In most cases it's only temporary and will fade after a short period but it's still annoying. We have a Panasonic 50PX80 at work which we use for Powerpoint presentations and the like and the retention is very noticable at times, although it's yet to leave a permanent mark on the screen.
There's no doubt about it though, the "fans" of Pioneer are right about the latest one - Transformers on Blu-Ray was absolutely stunning and the best picture I've seen. The salesman was good though and if I hadn't arrived only 15 mins before closing time my wallet would have been substantially lighter ;)
The other thing is that Pioneer are actually suffering because their high-end product is not selling in the necessary quantities. Seems a shame really because people are understandably going to buy the cheaper alternatives, especially with the current financial climate.
I'm also bound to forget one day - the phone will ring or the door bell will go and I'll forget I've left my PS3 on a static image. No doubt that will be a permanently burned-in image.
Woah, even on the old plasmas it takes dozens of hours to do it, it won't happen in half an hour while its on a pause screen.
The reason games get picked on is because of the HUD elements that sit in the screen permanently for hours on end.
You'll never in a million years cause burn in from leaving a game while you answer the phone.
Woah, even on the old plasmas it takes dozens of hours to do it, it won't happen in half an hour while its on a pause screen.
:confused::confused::confused: This is all messing with my mind now :(
Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.
The other thing is that Pioneer are actually suffering because their high-end product is not selling in the necessary quantities. Seems a shame really because people are understandably going to buy the cheaper alternatives, especially with the current financial climate.
I'm not at all surprised. IMO, plasmas may offer a better picture (on average) than LCDs and Pioneers are undoubtedly the best of the plasmas but the quality difference doesn't reflect the cost.
A 42" Kuro would have cost me over twice what my Bravia did and it's not even 1080p! They only start doing 1080p at 50" and that would have cost four times the price. Is it really four times as good? I doubt it somehow.
The general plasma versus LCD debate is fair enough and, for those who prefer the former, Panasonic offer far more reasonably priced screens which only command slightly more than their LCD equivalents.
Pioneer are living in cloud cuckoo land with their pricing. Sure there will be die-hards who must have the best quality at any price but the majority of people will look at the Kuros and wonder why the 720p panels cost twice as much as similarly sized 1080p LCDs and the 1080p panels cost twice as much as similarly specced plasmas from Panasonic.
:confused::confused::confused: This is all messing with my mind now :(
Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.
I've also got the impression that retention is far more of an issue from some quarters of those forums.
Basically the issue seems far from clear-cut, with some claiming they have no retention issues whilst others say they can still see the results of a short gaming session for quite a while afterward.
All just a bit too worrying for me tbh.
There's a new model out now as well, the KRP-500 I think it's called. It has a separate media box which does Freesat (Panasonic has the monopoly on Freesat built-in). Apparently, the KRP-500 is even better than the 5090 even though it's the same technology, and has the setup absolutely correct out of the box.
I admit, I was blown away by the Pio when I saw it last week but then I'm not an expert at all. The one over-riding concern I have about LCD is that only a fraction of the TV programmes are currently in HD and I don't see that changing at least for a year or two. I imagine by then that I'd be able to buy a new TV at that point which is far better than the current Pio. Who knows? Perhaps Sony will have their OLED stuff out by then :cool:
Maybe I should be buying the LCD with the PS3 in mind and possibly upgrade when at least the majority of what I watch will be in HD. I'm actually amazed that so many people have bought HD sets with the small amount of HD broadcasted material there is
:confused::confused::confused: This is all messing with my mind now :(
Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.
AVForums, whilst full of very good information, also suffers from people who are massively anal retentive about their AV gear. These are the sort of people who will guage retention issues by measuring with light meters in exact amounts of ambient light etc.
It's like on OcUK in the graphics card forums, where if you ask how to upgrade from Catalyst X.10 to X.11, they'll have you have uninstalling, boot into safe mode, run Driver Cleaner, reboot into safe mode again, run it again, then install the new drivers and tell you if you don't do this your graphics card will melt.
They only start doing 1080p at 50"
They do a 46", a 37" and a 32" in 1080p.
Phykell, I play loads of game on the viera I have and sometime will leave it for over an hour on static images, there is yet to be retention of any kind. Iirc, the viera employs...well viera thingy that stops image from burning-in.
Also, never ever judge tv from what you see in the store, it may suffer from feed deterioration - found in places like currys, dixons etc where they attach multiple-tvs to the same feed signal.
There is a fact sheet somewhere on the net and it compares lcd v plasma in details. Plasma wins hands down. Having said that, the report was commissioned by the top plasma makers apparently. It is worth a read and helps you to decide what to go for.
I wouldn't worry too much about image burn-in tbh, things like "pixel shake" I read it is employed to counteract that and other mechanisms on plasma tv etc.
leowyatt
10-11-2008, 08:19
:confused::confused::confused: This is all messing with my mind now :(
Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.
With the AV forums as it's been said they can be very very retentive about their displays. We had our TV for a few months now and we don't leave static images on for that long if we can help it and the thing to remember is if you leave the TV on pause for hours and hours the retention that has built up WILL go you just need to use your TV for normal viewing or a static snow channel should sort it out. Some sets suffer badly from retention while others have little trouble with it. There was an LG set I was looking into when our Samsung was replaced but that suffered terrible retention even after 15 minutes of normal gameplay. Some like our Panasonic is very good and to be perfectly honest I used to be only able to make out image retention on our old Samsung was in a pitch black room with a black image on screen. It never showed up on normal watching because I was sensible about it. There is a user on AVforums whose signature has a link to a thread about an LCD TV which also suffered from image retention and burn-in so not everything is safe ;)
Yes there isn't much TV broadcasts out at the moment but if you have Virgin like us it makes sense to have a HD TV and any games console you have MUST :p have a HD TV.
The one over-riding concern I have about LCD is that only a fraction of the TV programmes are currently in HD and I don't see that changing at least for a year or two.
If you're referring to the inferior SD scaling on LCDs then I agree this is an issue and plasmas tend to do a much better job of this for some reason. Personally my HTPC does all this work and the screen is never fed anything other than a 1080p signal so it's not an issue but I realise it will be for most people. Must jack an aerial into the back of it sometime and see how the built-in freeview tuner compares.
They do a 46", a 37" and a 32" in 1080p.
Interesting, didn't realise that, although the 46" is still twice the price of the equivalent Panasonic. I don't doubt that it's better but twice as good? Not really surprising that sales of Kuros are unimpressive.
It's like anything high end though, law of diminishing returns.
Just the same as an overclocked GTX280 isn't twice as fast as a GTX260 despite being almost twice the price.
Fair point and everyone's cut-off is at a different point. If you have the dosh to burn then by all means go for a Kuro as they're undoubtedly the best out there, it's just that such customers are in the minority and most are look for more VFM, hence why I'm not surprised to see Pioneer's sales suffering, especially in the current climate.
Just read this in the Pioneer manual :eek: - sounds pretty damning to me :(
Usage guidelines
All phosphor-based screens (including conventional tube-type televisions) can be affected by displaying static images for a prolonged period. Plasma televisions are no exception to this rule.
After-image and permanent effects on the screen can be avoided by taking some basic precautions. By following the recommendations listed below, you can ensure longer and satisfactory results from your plasma television:
• Whenever possible, avoid frequently displaying the same image or virtually still moving pictures (e.g. closed-captioned images or video game images which have static portions).
• Do not display Teletext for a prolonged period of time.
• Avoid viewing the on-screen display for extended periods, from a decoder, DVD player, VCR and all other components.
• Do not leave the same picture freeze-framed or paused continuously over a long period of time, when using the still picture mode from a TV, VCR, DVD player or any other
component.
• Images which have both very bright areas and very dark areas side by side should not be displayed for a prolonged period of time.
•When playing a video game, the “GAME” mode setting within “AV Selection” is strongly recommended. However, please do not use this mode for long periods of time.
• After playing a game or displaying any still image, it is best to view a normal moving picture in the “WIDE” or “FULL” screen setting for more than three times the length of the previous still/moving image.
• After using the plasma television, always switch the display to “STANDBY” mode.
leowyatt
11-11-2008, 19:29
They are just covering their arses mate, just use your noggin ;)
They are just covering their arses mate, just use your noggin ;)
I'm paranoid and justifiably so I reckon!
leowyatt
11-11-2008, 20:23
We're just going over old ground here so I'm going to step away from this thread.
Both my LCD manuals have virtually the same things in them ;)
I expect any you might have do as well.
LCD Monitors and TVs may have image retention when switching from one image to another
especially after displaying a stationary image for a long time.
This guide is to demonstrate correct usage of LCD products in order to protect them from Image
retention.
What is Image retention ?
During normal operation of a LCD panel, pixel image retention doesn't occur. However,
if the same image is displayed for a long time, a slight difference in electric charge
accumulates between the two electrodes which encase the liquid crystal. This may
cause the liquid crystal to build up in a certain areas of the display. Thus, the previous
image is retained when switching to a new video image. All display products, including
LCD,are subject to image retention. This is not a product defect.
...followed by various pictures which I can't be bothered to cut and upload :p
Lol at this thread. Phykell, trust me on this will you? :) I have had my ps3 since a few weeks after it was released in japan. My Panasonic viera plasma tv was bought about a week after that. I have played my ps3 extensively since that time [how long ago was ps3 launched again?] My GF have left it on listening to digital radio and I have left it for considerable amount of time on "pause" while doing something else....I am yet to have a single image-burn in. :)
I just followed the normal steps - Contrast at 0, Colour at 50, sharpness and tint at 0 and brightness at 50...for the first 100hrs.
leowyatt
11-11-2008, 21:06
I just followed the normal steps - Contrast at 0, Colour at 50, sharpness and tint at 0 and brightness at 50...for the first 100hrs.
Most new plasmas don't have to do the 100hrs run in ours included :D
Most new plasmas don't have to do the 100hrs run in ours included :D
Every one seem to be doing it on av forum around the time I bought the tv, so yeah I joined in too. ;D
leowyatt
11-11-2008, 21:17
Hey I did it with the Samsung we had but the Panny seems to be a better with retention.
We're just going over old ground here so I'm going to step away from this thread.
I can understand your frustration but I'm about to spend a lot of money on this thing so I have to be sure.
As previously indicated - *all* equipment can be damanged if you abuse it. So don't abuse it then. :p
The 100 hours thing is a good idea. You probably won't break it if you don't get the stopwatch out and time exactly 100 hours. You also won't break it if you leave a static image on screen while you go make a cuppa, answer the phone, or answer the call of nature.
There's a few things you can do to protect your investment. This applies whatever type of TV you have.
If the TV has an 'idle timer', use it. My Pio turns off after three hours if I don't use the remote. If I forget and leave it on a static image, then that's my investment protected, right there.
Don't max out the brightness. Most shops run their displays with a far higher brightness level than you actually need, so people think this is normal and how they're supposed to use their TVs. If it hurts your eyes, it's probably too high. :p
If you're not using the TV, turn it off.
If you do see any signs of retention, deal with them straight away - re-tune to something fast-moving, or (providing your TV will display it) static noise is even better.
If you're sensible with the screen then even with the plethora of warnings, there would probably be a good case to answer under SOGA if you do get retention issues. A TV isn't 'fit for purpose' if the first time you use it the image gets burned in forever.
What you do with your money is your choice, but there's a point when 'getting the right thing for you' turns into 'getting anal retentive over some detail that'll probably never happen'. Fact of life - all TVs break eventually, and all TVs suffer from image fade over time.
A Place of Light
16-11-2008, 15:39
Plasma.
Pioneer.
There is no substitute*.
Thread closed.
Panasonic/Toshiba are close seconds though
Pioneer Plasmas are indeed the best of the best but their prices are a complete joke.
IMO they are over-priced for what it is. In this day and age, it is hard to justify such high prices when your rivals can give very good and almost identical performance. I will pick Panasonic when it comes to plasma anytime.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 01:56
Pioneer Plasmas are indeed the best of the best but their prices are a complete joke.
It's times like these I'm glad I don't pay retail.
It's times like these I'm glad I don't pay retail.
Spill the beans then ;)
I'm sick of the whole TV thing TBH - I thought it'd be simple but of course it's anything but. I read loads of stuff about plasmas having image retention and loads that say it isn't anymore. I'd settled on the Sony KDL46W4500 but that apparently has clouding issues and John Lewis wouldn't price match it against Richer Sounds because the latter haven't had any stock - probably because Sony are now investigating the latest QC issue with regards to clouding and backlight bleed. Even the editor-in-chief of what HiFi is concerned because she just bought her dad one! Coincidentally, WHF named it as the product of the year! Another issue is the actual size we can fit in our living room. It's a difficult alcove as the vent from our gas fire exits along the wall. The 50" would be a real stretch.
Two of my friends have banned me from talking about TVs to them and people on this thread have "backed away". I don't blame them either TBH :D
The Pioneer is very :cool: though.
I was looking at the Panasonic Vieras only yesterday and they were very impressive too - Martin Dawes near me is doing them with free satellite installation (for Freesat).
leowyatt
17-11-2008, 10:23
It's times like these I'm glad I don't pay retail.
good for you :rolleyes: pretty much all of us have to.
good for you :rolleyes: pretty much all of us have to.
For computer stuff my company pays for everything but a massive plasma would probably raise some concerns ;)
I know people who have got TVs through their companies, but I'd be the one who was investigated if I tried it :(
leowyatt
17-11-2008, 10:28
true. What you need to do is to decide on 1 model and that is it! Otherwise you'll still be trying to decide in 2 years time.
Or - to really put the cat among the pigeons - decide if you really need one at all given how long it's taking to decide. :)
Every time I put Wipeout HD on I'm reminded I need a new one ;)
What have you got APoL?
leowyatt
17-11-2008, 10:43
but by that rationale Mark we didn't "need" one because I took months and months to decide. Turns out we did need it because our old TV was too small where it was in the lounge and also it started to have green patches on it if left on for too long ;D
You're as bad as I was phykell, I was even worse when it came to the surround sound ;D
There comes a point where you have to put a stake in the ground and make a decision, otherwise you'll just keep going round and resent the thing. You have all the information, you know your budget, make it happen :)
but by that rationale Mark we didn't "need" one because I took months and months to decide. Turns out we did need it because our old TV was too small where it was in the lounge and also it started to have green patches on it if left on for too long ;D
There was a rationale in my post? :dunno: :p ;D
I've spent the past two years wanting a Wii, but not deciding to get one. I can do long decisions. :)
It doesn't help that everywhere is out of stock on the Sony LCD. Just rang Richer Sounds and they say Sony simply aren't fulfilling any orders :confused:
Perhaps it really is a case of them holding back due to the issue of backlight clouding :(
There are also some reports of similar issues on German AV forums.
I suspect they're trying to tell you something. You're not meant to have a Sony. Either that or they're all getting snapped up as Chrimbo pressies.
If you can, you might be better waiting for the January sales and trying to bag a bargain. Come January, there's going to be murder on the high street I suspect.
...there's going to be murder on the high street...
:D Not bad advice TBH however...
There will be murder in the phykell household if I haven't got a telly sorted by then!
leowyatt
17-11-2008, 17:12
best price I can get the KDL-46W4500 apart from RS is £1299. Well when I say best price it's the place we bought our TV from and they are competitive.
EDIT: that does come with a 5 year warranty. Found it somwhere else for £1199 but not sure if they have stock.
That's a good price!
Richer Sounds are doing it for £1179.99 with the standard warranty - it's odd that John Lewis say they'll price match but they're still doing it for £1,649. It's odd because as part of their promise, once they find a cheaper price, they're supposed to apply it for all customers, and if that's the case, why has no-one been able to price match it lower than £1,649? :confused:
These price match promises are a bit dodgy AFAIC.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:10
Every time I put Wipeout HD on I'm reminded I need a new one ;)
What have you got APoL?
A 50" Pioneer, but TBH Im thinking about one of the new 46" Kuros as the 50 is a tad large IMHO. I realised this as soon as I got it home, but I still think the typical 42" is too small, but now there are some internediate sizes coming onto the market.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:12
good for you :rolleyes: pretty much all of us have to.
I'll be reading all of your future posts, looking carefully for the next rollseyes for anyone that got a good deal on anything.
Although we both know that won't happen, don't we?
Hey APoL, now your identity is out as someone who works at Currys, any chance of extending some staff discount, to deserving individuals such as myself? :D
leowyatt
17-11-2008, 19:20
I'll be reading all of your future posts, looking carefully for the next rollseyes for anyone that got a good deal on anything.
Although we both know that won't happen, don't we?
I'm was probably just reading too much into your post and just read it with a smug tone. Having a rather bad day so just ignore me :o
A 50" Pioneer, but TBH Im thinking about one of the new 46" Kuros as the 50 is a tad large IMHO. I realised this as soon as I got it home, but I still think the typical 42" is too small, but now there are some internediate sizes coming onto the market.
I don't think a 46" will make much difference TBH and then it would preclude plasma as Pioneer only do the 50" and 60" models now. The former point is borne out by the poster I received at Sound and Vision (have you ever been there?) which shows the size of the various models - you can fold the poster up along printed lines to "illustrate" the sreen size.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:26
Hey APoL, now your identity is out as someone who works at Currys, any chance of extending some staff discount, to deserving individuals such as myself? :D
It's actually a lot sadder than that mate. I used to date a girl who worked for Pioneer.
As a sidenote, I can get you 10% off any price you've negotiated with Currys/Comet/PC world though. lol.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:29
I'm was probably just reading too much into your post and just read it with a smug tone. Having a rather bad day so just ignore me :o
It's ok matey, I don't post with any kind of attitude (unless it's been levelled at me in the first place) and I'm also more than aware of the complete lack of trust towards me in here. The above posts is one of the fundamental flaws of a text based system, but as long as the original meaning is clarified then no harm is done.
FWIW, I don't bear grudges as I've always found them to be counter-productive.
It's actually a lot sadder than that mate. I used to date a girl who worked for Pioneer.
Nothing sad about that. A computer-literate guy managing to date any female has always got to be a good thing ;)
As a sidenote, I can get you 10% off any price you've negotiated with Currys/Comet/PC world though. lol.
Cheers, I'll bear that in mind :thumbsup:
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:34
I don't think a 46" will make much difference TBH and then it would preclude plasma as Pioneer only do the 50" and 60" models now. The former point is borne out by the poster I received at Sound and Vision (have you ever been there?) which shows the size of the various models - you can fold the poster up along printed lines to "illustrate" the sreen size.
I actually thought the 46 was a plasma. Whoa.
Had a demo on saturday, and was impressed, but as it must be another plasma I'll have to checkout the newer 50". I can't really comment on the gaming debate as I only game on my bog standard PC monitor, and not a mahoosive tv.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:35
Cheers, I'll bear that in mind :thumbsup:
You do that, it's a genuine offer from me.
FWIW, I don't bear grudges as I've always found them to be counter-productive.
Even a moment of anger is always wasted - the chances are that the target or reason for your anger is blissfully unware and unconcerned by any problem you may or may not have with them.
I can't remember the saying exactly but it was along the lines of, "Anger is a gift that many seem willing to give but all hate to receive".
I actually thought the 46 was a plasma. Whoa. Had a demo on saturday, and was impressed, but as it must be another plasma I'll have to checkout the newer 50". I can't really comment on the gaming debate as I only game on my bog standard PC monitor, and not a mahoosive tv.
It might be the Panasonic Viera - they do 42", 46" and 50" models and pretty good they are too!
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:42
Even a moment of anger is always wasted - the chances are that the target or reason for your anger is blissfully unware and unconcerned by any problem you may or may not have with them.
I can't remember the saying exactly but it was along the lines of, "Anger is a gift that many seem willing to give but all hate to receive".
You might remember, that earlier this year I learned how short life really is.
It takes real strength to be angry all of the time, and I just cba to try.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:44
It might be the Panasonic Viera - they do 42", 46" and 50" models and pretty good they are too!
BTW when did PC world get so heavily into shifting large screen TV's?
I was in a recently refurbed store and they've gone from dispaying 8 or 10 to half of the damn store!
It takes real strength to be angry all of the time, and I just cba to try.
Unless your name is pies/cheets. Then the anger just overflows without any effort at all :p
You might remember, that earlier this year I learned how short life really is. It takes real strength to be angry all of the time, and I just cba to try.
I do remember, yes :(
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 19:50
Unless your name is pies/cheets. Then the anger just overflows without any effort at all :p
If you look up "Angry" in the dictionary, it has Pies photgraph in there.
BTW when did PC world get so heavily into shifting large screen TV's? I was in a recently refurbed store and they've gone from dispaying 8 or 10 to half of the damn store!
I don't know, I didn't realise they stocked them!
It doesn't surprise me TBH. This is the start of a consolidation of technology products - PCs are moving into the home entertainment arena. Consoles and even TVs themselves are now benefitting from the DLNA initiative to network video and audio content. A bluetooth keyboard and mouse together with a PS3, makes for a great Internet browser and laptops are putting paid to the idea of a computer necessarily sitting in one room of a house.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 20:00
Convergence.
You're not kidding.
My next task is to replace my current media setup (original Xbox) with a proper media PC. I've decided that the ability to record TV is more important than I first thought.
Convergence.
You're not kidding.
My next task is to replace my current media setup (original Xbox) with a proper media PC. I've decided that the ability to record TV is more important than I first thought.
PlayTV and a PS3 :thumbsup:
Alternatively, there's even an LG LCD with a hard drive built-in now.
A Place of Light
17-11-2008, 20:06
PlayTV and a PS3 :thumbsup:
Alternatively, there's even an LG LCD with a hard drive built-in now.
I saw those LG's about a year ago, but I can't help wondering about the brand of HD they use. Plus, if it goes bang can it be repaired/replaced?
The PS3 angle is an interesting one, and I find it amusing that a lot of people bought one simply to play bluray first and foremost and the gaming side was an added bonus.
I saw those LG's about a year ago, but I can't help wondering about the brand of HD they use. Plus, if it goes bang can it be repaired/replaced?
The PS3 angle is an interesting one, and I find it amusing that a lot of people bought one simply to play bluray first and foremost and the gaming side was an added bonus.
LOL - I know what you mean and I was one of them. My excuse was that we don't even have a DVD player - we'd always use one of my laptops for playing CDs, DVDs and downloaded video. However, Wipeout HD came out and that was enough for me to buy a PS3 especially when I'd seen all the other stuff it can do. Of course it's network-aware so it can deliver and play content from my NAS or PC plus, for some reason, it produces a much better picture when playing back downloaded video than my laptop ever did. I'm going to get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse when I get the big TV as it will also function as a pretty good Internet browser, image retention aside if I do buy a plasma ;)
for some reason, it produces a much better picture when playing back downloaded video than my laptop ever did.
Probably because it has a dedicated scaler that your laptop doesn't unless you were running FFDShow suitably set up or something similar.
Probably because it has a dedicated scaler that your laptop doesn't unless you were running FFDShow suitably set up or something similar.
Smart-ass :p
I knew there was something going on though - it's too obvious a difference but very welcome though!
What's the score with TV downloads which are marked as HD then? Are they just rendered as better quality AVI than non-HD or is there any chance of them being decoded as HD?
I find often a lot of stuff marked up as HD is such in resolution only, rest of it is about DVD quality.
For example, you'll find a lot of stuff marked up as HD where the bitrate is the same as DVD and it only has basic 5.1 sound.
Normal/SD/DVD stuff is generally DVD res but a greatly reduced bitrate and stereo sound.
Whether they're using 'HD' codecs like x264 is a lottery.
A Place of Light
18-11-2008, 00:18
LOL - I know what you mean and I was one of them. My excuse was that we don't even have a DVD player - we'd always use one of my laptops for playing CDs, DVDs and downloaded video. However, Wipeout HD came out and that was enough for me to buy a PS3 especially when I'd seen all the other stuff it can do. Of course it's network-aware so it can deliver and play content from my NAS or PC plus, for some reason, it produces a much better picture when playing back downloaded video than my laptop ever did. I'm going to get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse when I get the big TV as it will also function as a pretty good Internet browser, image retention aside if I do buy a plasma ;)
Other than my PC, I don't own a dedicated DVD player either.
My Xbox handles all DVD playback, but of course it doesn't support HD :(
The Americans seem to like using MPEG2 for HD content. Nice if you have the bandwidth.
FFDshow is a bit of a pig to set up, but worth it when done well. I haven't bothered because I use so many players, but I suspect I might someday.
The only HD-capable device I own is a camcorder. I was waiting for the BluRay vs HD-DVD war to play out, and now it has, I just can't be bothered. I might get a BD-RW drive when the media gets a bit more reasonable in price, but since I barely watch a fraction of the content I own (~2,000 hours and counting on hard disks, plus a few hundred DVDs - mostly in boxsets), throwing any money at dedicated hardware is futile.
I bought the Pioneer LX5090 :cool:
I decided that I just can't live with the LCD for SD broadcasts and I don't "game" that much anyway. I'll just have to be very careful with regards to screen retention and burn.
Thanks to everyone for helping me to make up my mind :thumbsup:
A Place of Light
23-11-2008, 13:52
I bought the Pioneer LX5090 :cool:
I decided that I just can't live with the LCD for SD broadcasts and I don't "game" that much anyway. I'll just have to be very careful with regards to screen retention and burn.
Thanks to everyone for helping me to make up my mind :thumbsup:
Excellent choice, my friend.
As for any burn/image retention issues, doesn't it come with the usual Pioneer 5 year warranty?
Excellent choice, my friend. As for any burn/image retention issues, doesn't it come with the usual Pioneer 5 year warranty?
It does but I doubt that retention and burn is covered by the warranty. I guess they'd say it was the nature of plasma technology. Having said that, if I follow all their recommendations and use "game mode" I'd probably have a good case if I did experience such issues. I'd hope so anyway :)
I went to another shop yesterday to see some of the Lowe LCD TVs. They looked really good but seemed very expensive. Unfortunately for Lowe the shop also had a 60" Pioneer 9th gen plasma that was just amazing, even really close up.
After some discussion with the salesman I suggested something which still seems perfectly reasonable to me given the amount of money people spend on these things; that bearing in mind the debate over LCD and plasma, surely it would be a good idea to arrange the display of their TVs according to "comparable price". For example, in the (say) £1,500, up to 46" bracket, sit the latest Sony LCD next to the latest Panasonic Viera plasma and have a Pioneer sat with them. That way the customer can decide on the two using the Pioneer as the reference. I reckon they'd get happier customers, quicker sales and they'd sell a few Pioneers more! :cool:
The salesman was completely dismissive of this idea, suggesting (bizarrely) that you'd never have several TVs set up at home in that way :confused: He also said that you can't really compare TVs in shops on SD because they can't get the signal quality as the TVs all share an aerial. Hang on, it's a TV shop, put a load of aerials up FFS - they don't cost much! But no, apparently even that's not a reasonable idea. Bullsh*t IMO!
Thinking further about it, if i ran a TV shop I'd set up a proper environment for people to use for (say 30 minutes), having set up three TVs as I said above. Charge people (say) £50 and let them bring their own DVDs/BRs and play around with all the settings. If they choose to buy a TV, refund the £50.
A Place of Light
23-11-2008, 14:57
It does but I doubt that retention and burn is covered by the warranty. I guess they'd say it was the nature of plasma technology. Having said that, if I follow all their recommendations and use "game mode" I'd probably have a good case if I did experience such issues. I'd hope so anyway :)
Mine covered everything, although TBH now I can't remember if the warranty was from the store (I bought from an AV specialist) or the manufacturer.....either way I didn't pay extra for it.
My warranty covers ANY defect/issue. The guy told me that should a problem arise they will send an engineer to my home, and approx 8 times out of 10 they can rectify things there and then. If it needs extensive attention, they would take it away, leaving a set at least as good as the one they're taking away and return mine to Pioneer. If Pioneer couldn't fix it within six weeks then I'd receive a brand new set of similar or better spec depending on the current range at that time.
That's what sold me on it, to be honest.
That's what sold me on it, to be honest.
That's a pretty good warranty and it would have sold me on it too! I don't think my guarantee will be that good though.
The TV should arrive at the end of the week - it's going to be hard not to just play the PS3 on it rather than "burning it in" on normal viewing. I went for the Pioneer sound bar as well - my room doesn't really permit a decent sound system plus my neighbour has to put up with enough noise from my piano :D
The salesman was sort of right. Shops tend to have harsh, over-bright lighting, and they tend to overpower the brightness to compensate. Your own lighting will be different, and your results will be different. You'll probably love the results even more though. :cool:
Don't know what warranty my Pioneer came with. I didn't pay attention - I was more interested in how much the shop had fleeced me by. Still, other than the money I don't reget it and its been faultless. Mind you, it gets very light use - the last few days have seen the most use its had in months.
Mine had gone up over £200 (on the web site) and when I got to the till I mentioned that they still had the tag on it, unchanged. The guy said he'd stated the lower price anyway when we'd spoken a couple of weeks ago, and let it go through for the lower price thankfully :) Can't believe the price of the stand and soundbar as well on other sites - they cost me much less.
You do realise that makes me feel even more :'( :p
You do realise that makes me feel even more :'( :p
Oops :(
You do realise that makes me feel even more :'( :p
How do you think I feel now that the Government have just cut VAT by 2.5%? OK, it's only £60 but that's a good meal for two up here in the North :(
Karma. :p
Though that would require re-pricing, at which point that £200 you mentioned gets dumped on top before the VAT comes off. You're still £135 in profit compared to that.
New TV was delivered today - looks great, just watched Wall-E (my first Blu-Ray). Fantastic movie, amazing picture :)
The HD is jaw-dropping but it's then that much harder to go back to ordinary freeview/NTL cable and analogue TV is pretty awful TBH.
Paranoid about the screen burn though and I now notice all the channel logos, stationary text, banners, etc. Won't be using the PS3 until the screen's had chance to "burn-in".
You're way too paranoid about this :p
You're way too paranoid about this :p
I just asked a question on AVForums (finally got my registration completed) to that very end :D
The screen looks MASSIVE!
I suspect that may be something to with the fact it is massive :p
I suspect that may be something to with the fact it is massive :p
Certainly moving from a 32" CRT :thumbsup:
Must say, I wasn't too enamoured seeing Rab C Nesbitt up so close though :D
Piggymon
30-11-2008, 19:42
PICS ! ( hopefully with Borris in there too ! :D )
Crap picture - just taken on the phone:
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/phykell/tv.jpg
No Borris, but note the furry toys to keep Borris off the unit :D
very nice.
Is that a touch of burn in I can see top right though? ;)
LOL ;D
I noticed some image retention on mine the other day (I'm using a PVR that has some fixed-position overlays). Seems to have gone now though which hopefully demonstrates the point that even if you do get a bit of image retention if you clear it straight away (out-of-tune analogue channel will do that) it isn't a problem.
Retention is easy to sort and is a very different issue to burn in.
If you get burn in, you're pretty much screwed but you really really have to be going some to get proper burn in, as opposed to just a small retention issue that can be fixed as Mark illustrates above. LCDs suffer from retention almost as much as Plasma. If you have an LCD monitor leave it on a high contrast forum or something overnight (with no power saving screen offs) and when you look at it in the morning go to a 50% grey screen or something and gaze in awe at the magic ghost forum that you can see before you.
Sadly a lot of people confuse the two and that's why I think there is more of an issue made than there really is.
Piggymon
30-11-2008, 21:11
Crap picture - just taken on the phone:
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/phykell/tv.jpg
No Borris, but note the furry toys to keep Borris off the unit :D
Awwwwww poor Borris.. perhaps he wants to cuddle the TV :D
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