Is it stupid to think.............

Matblack · 27-01-2008, 19:52

.... you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet?

MB

Von Smallhausen · 27-01-2008, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matblack

.... you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet?

MB

That would depend on the forum as well as the person Mat and certain people I have come across on the web are so ingrained through arrogance and lack of life experience that they are beyond rational argument.

I think I know where you are coming from.

Dymetrie · 27-01-2008, 19:56

Optimistic, yes... Stupid, no...

vix · 27-01-2008, 19:57

Yeah I'd say it would depend on the person and how much they believed in their own prejudices.

I was trying to think of the prejudices I have and whether I would change them if someone gave me a rational arguement, but I don't think I would.

I'd also not bother trying to change peoples opinions either. Even if it's hurtful to me, I tend to let them have their own opinions and just get on with things. Don't get too worked up about stuff.

Matblack · 27-01-2008, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by vix

Yeah I'd say it would depend on the person and how much they believed in their own prejudices.

I was trying to think of the prejudices I have and whether I would change them if someone gave me a rational arguement, but I don't think I would.

I'd also not bother trying to change peoples opinions either. Even if it's hurtful to me, I tend to let them have their own opinions and just get on with things. Don't get too worked up about stuff.

Thats good advice, I think I'll print one of these out and have a glass of wine

MB

Stan_Lite · 27-01-2008, 20:05

Opinions, I think, can be changed but prejudices are much more deeply ingrained.

I have a certain prejudice and as much as I know it is wrong to think that way and as much evidence as I see to contradict that prejudice, it's still there. It's so much a part of me that as much as I deny it and supress it, it's still there. There's absolutely nothing rational about it and that's the reason it's so difficult to alter someone's prejudices. It's almost impossible to argue rationally against something as irrational as deap-seated prejudice.

Pebs · 27-01-2008, 20:33

I think you'd be on a hiding to nothing. People have to be open to having their beliefs challenged to the extent where they will question them. Unlikely to happen via a screen I wouldnt have thought.

Mark · 27-01-2008, 20:35

To expand Dym's post...

Optimistic? Yes. Stupid? No. Worth a try? Probably.

The only way you can really find out how ingrained someone's beliefs are is to challenge them. On receipt of such a challenge, people are likely to:

Tell you you're dumb and to go away. Whether or not you think you're right, probably time to give up.
Accept your view. Well done.
Provide a counter-argument. Prepare for a debate but don't get upset if they never agree with you. Some you win, some you lose. See also (4).
Bury their head in a bucket of sand and ignore your valid, reasoned argument. Most likely to respond as (1) above, but may engage in debate to try and ensnare or confuse you.

It's the last lot that are the problem cases. I can name a few individuals from other fora to which members here have access (and that's not just the obvious one). I don't know whether they do it for kicks or to be annoying, but they seem to want to pick holes in everything you say, no matter how minor and unimportant those things are. I, too, have got annoyed with these people, but in the end decided to ignore them and move on.

As for the poll, neither option really applies as far as my own views go.

Good luck.

Matblack · 27-01-2008, 20:43

I think number 4 is whats going on here

People involved think they are cleverer than you and will try to use big words and twist things until you just give up.

(I think I shall dub this CleanBlueSky thinking.)

It might help people to form an opinion more if I tell you the people involved are CBS, Dirtydog and another muppet who doesn't seem to be able to think past the end of this boover boot :/

I've decided to give up, I've made my point, defended stereotypes which have been imposed on me and I'm just getting bored now

MB

Pebs · 27-01-2008, 20:46

Then it is not a debate at all, it's a point scoring exercise and you are flogging a very very dead horse. Back away from the thread!

View Poll Results: Is is?
Yes, leave them alone and try not to be so serious	12	52.17%
No, if you can change one persons mind with 1,000 posts its worth trying	11	47.83%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

27-01-2008, 19:52	#1
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	Is it stupid to think............. .... you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet? MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

27-01-2008, 19:56	#3
Dymetrie A large glass of Merlot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Letchworth with a Lightsaber Posts: 5,819	Optimistic, yes... Stupid, no... __________________ Khef, Ka and Ka-Tet....

27-01-2008, 19:57	#4
vix Penelope Pitstop Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,426	Yeah I'd say it would depend on the person and how much they believed in their own prejudices. I was trying to think of the prejudices I have and whether I would change them if someone gave me a rational arguement, but I don't think I would. I'd also not bother trying to change peoples opinions either. Even if it's hurtful to me, I tend to let them have their own opinions and just get on with things. Don't get too worked up about stuff. __________________

27-01-2008, 20:05	#6
Stan_Lite Stan, Stan the FLASHER MAN! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In bed with your sister Posts: 5,483	Opinions, I think, can be changed but prejudices are much more deeply ingrained. I have a certain prejudice and as much as I know it is wrong to think that way and as much evidence as I see to contradict that prejudice, it's still there. It's so much a part of me that as much as I deny it and supress it, it's still there. There's absolutely nothing rational about it and that's the reason it's so difficult to alter someone's prejudices. It's almost impossible to argue rationally against something as irrational as deap-seated prejudice. __________________ Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I...

27-01-2008, 20:33	#7
Pebs Easymouth Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,716	I think you'd be on a hiding to nothing. People have to be open to having their beliefs challenged to the extent where they will question them. Unlikely to happen via a screen I wouldnt have thought. __________________ ...faster you naughty little monkey! Running through hell, heaven can wait!

27-01-2008, 20:35	#8
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	To expand Dym's post... Optimistic? Yes. Stupid? No. Worth a try? Probably. The only way you can really find out how ingrained someone's beliefs are is to challenge them. On receipt of such a challenge, people are likely to: Tell you you're dumb and to go away. Whether or not you think you're right, probably time to give up. Accept your view. Well done. Provide a counter-argument. Prepare for a debate but don't get upset if they never agree with you. Some you win, some you lose. See also (4). Bury their head in a bucket of sand and ignore your valid, reasoned argument. Most likely to respond as (1) above, but may engage in debate to try and ensnare or confuse you. It's the last lot that are the problem cases. I can name a few individuals from other fora to which members here have access (and that's not just the obvious one). I don't know whether they do it for kicks or to be annoying, but they seem to want to pick holes in everything you say, no matter how minor and unimportant those things are. I, too, have got annoyed with these people, but in the end decided to ignore them and move on. As for the poll, neither option really applies as far as my own views go. Good luck. Last edited by Mark; 27-01-2008 at 20:39.

27-01-2008, 20:43	#9
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	I think number 4 is whats going on here People involved think they are cleverer than you and will try to use big words and twist things until you just give up. (I think I shall dub this CleanBlueSky thinking.) It might help people to form an opinion more if I tell you the people involved are CBS, Dirtydog and another muppet who doesn't seem to be able to think past the end of this boover boot :/ I've decided to give up, I've made my point, defended stereotypes which have been imposed on me and I'm just getting bored now MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

27-01-2008, 20:46	#10
Pebs Easymouth Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,716	Then it is not a debate at all, it's a point scoring exercise and you are flogging a very very dead horse. Back away from the thread! __________________ ...faster you naughty little monkey! Running through hell, heaven can wait!