Dog owners and parents

BBx · 08-12-2010, 13:14

A friend phoned me this morning with some news and I would like to get some opinions.

She was at a family get together at the weekend and one of the family member's Jack Russell's bit her little girl (18mth year old) on the face, an inch away from her eye.

She is ok, but I think she's having nightmares as during the day she is fine and at night she doesn't go down

So my questions:

a) As a dog owner, what would you do if your dog (it was the father's cousin's dog) bit a toddler (member of the family) on her face?

b) As a parent, what would you do in my friend's position - what would you expect the dog owner to do?

c) As a parent and a dog owner - what is your take?

d) Other opinions?

Interesting to see people's opinions.

BB x

vix · 08-12-2010, 13:38

I'd always be interested to know what the child was doing at the time. Children need to know that dogs aren't toys and you can't just go up to them and poke them. Of course eveery circumstance is different but often the dog was provoked.

Kitten · 08-12-2010, 13:41

hhmmmm. Very difficult, and I tried to answer both a, b and c, but each time came up with: depends entirely on the circumstances.

Eitherway (as dog owner or parent) I would want to know:

How old is the dog, and how long have the family had it?

Was the child left alone with the dog?

Was the child playing with the dog? If so, what was she doing?

If the attack seems unprovoked, has the dog been ill recently or has anything happened to spook it? (fireworks, candles, loud bangs (perhaps balloons if it's a party?), lots of new people around & dog getting overexcited?

Has the dog shown any aggression before? To adults, children, other dogs? If so, what were the circumstances?

See, I would need to know the answers to these questions before I could make a decision or even comment. It could be that the baby spooked the dog, pulled its tail, yelled at it, anything. Or perhaps the dog saw an opportunity to remove a weaker pack member (although if the baby isn't part of the immediate family and alone with it, then it's probably unlikely).

It's very hard to call, as it's so emotive for all involved. Sorry, that's probably not much help.

I'm glad the little girl is ok though, hope she has a speedy & full recovery.

BBx · 08-12-2010, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by vix

I'd always be interested to know what the child was doing at the time. Children need to know that dogs aren't toys and you can't just go up to them and poke them. Of course eveery circumstance is different but often the dog was provoked.

Dad was standing up and the little girl was walking through his legs, she wasn't playing with the dog - poking it, pulling its tail. There were other children about and all the family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitten

hhmmmm. Very difficult, and I tried to answer both a, b and c, but each time came up with: depends entirely on the circumstances.

Eitherway (as dog owner or parent) I would want to know:

How old is the dog, and how long have the family had it?

Not sure... not that old or young from what I have heard

Was the child left alone with the dog?

No - all the family were around, my friend was just about to pull her away

Was the child playing with the dog? If so, what was she doing?

Dad was standing up and the little girl was walking through his legs, she wasn't playing with the dog - poking it, pulling its tail. There were other children about and all the family.
If the attack seems unprovoked, has the dog been ill recently or has anything happened to spook it? (fireworks, candles, loud bangs (perhaps balloons if it's a party?), lots of new people around & dog getting overexcited?

Has the dog shown any aggression before? To adults, children, other dogs? If so, what were the circumstances?

Yes its bitten 3 times before - once a child (my friend didn't know of this before the incident)

Thanks for your well wishes

BB x

Justsomebloke · 08-12-2010, 14:00

Hi BB,
My little Sister got a small Jack & then rang me to ask what i thought of them etc,
They are Lovely little dogs, great for field work, ratting etc Good hardy dogs as well that don't seem to suffer any known ailments that end up costing a bomb at the vets.
Having said all that though He Will Bite Brooke (me niece) No if's or buts he Will bite her sooner rather than later.
No he won't she says hes Lovely etc etc etc.
7 weeks later when i asked about the dog she said she had to rehome him becaus he Bit Brooke on the cheek.
I take no pleasure in being right & Brooke wasn't realy hurt, Although jacks bite kids they seldom hang on & leave a scar, I put it down to them being so little, hard & Defensive.
You have to remember a dog hasn't got hands to push a kid away so he Nips them.
Knowing these dogs as i do I would still have one around my own kid/kids but it would be the kind of dog that goes Everywhere with it's Master (Me).
I would also like to add that i do control my own dog & have a Proper Master over dog relationship, If i say down to my dog in the right voice he drops to his belly Instantly no matter what & i mean No matter what.

Just my own experience speaking & not meant to offend anyone.

As for how i think the dog owners should react;
I think they should be Humble & apologetic & keep the dog in a seperate room away from visiting kids from this point on.

BBx · 08-12-2010, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justsomebloke

I think they should be Humble & apologetic & keep the dog in a seperate room away from visiting kids from this point on.

See this was my reaction... I said 'well next time you go there I hope they make sure that the dog is shut in another room'.

My friend wants the dog to be put down and is furious that no one had told her before that the dog has bitten before.

As neither a dog owner or a parent, I understand the bond between a dog and its owner (well to more of an extent than I did a couple of years ago), but obviously in this case maternal instinct is stronger than anything - something of course I don't have.

BB x

Kitten · 08-12-2010, 14:07

Sounds to me like the dog might have been overwhelmed with all the people there - unless that's usual. Could have been playing, got a bit over-excited and giddy and gone in too rough or could have been intentioned bite.

I'm pretty much with Malc with what he said

Edit: Didn't see that bit at the bottom - in that case, totally the owner's fault for not keeping it away, especially if they are aware of the history (I'm assuming that's the case, they knew, but your friend didn't). That's totally irresponsible imo.

Roberta · 08-12-2010, 15:18

Totally agree with Malc. Terriers are hunting dogs and will nip. It's their nature. People owning terriers must be aware of this and understand that if something moves fast or seems threatening a nip will often follow.

If the dog is continually biting then I ultimately lay responsibility at the owners door. To nip once is an accident, 3 times is unacceptable.

BBx · 09-12-2010, 10:51

Apparently, the RSPCA will retrain him and if that doesn't work, then they will put him down.

The dog is now living with the mother in law and the MIL is now saying that no-one can take the dog away from her house to have him put down. She says if anyone tries, then she'll call the police and is prepared to spend her life savings on protecting him :/

By the way it wasn't a JR it was a Westy - how wrong was I?!

BB x

Justsomebloke · 09-12-2010, 12:05

I've not got much experience with Westys but the ones i have met have been quite assured & reasonably mellow for a small dog. I'd say teh dog has some issues & re training is definately the way forward.
Hopefully the woman will keep him away from kids for the time being & Gradually re introduce/socialise him.

08-12-2010, 13:14	#1
BBx Reverse SuBo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London Posts: 8,673	Dog owners and parents A friend phoned me this morning with some news and I would like to get some opinions. She was at a family get together at the weekend and one of the family member's Jack Russell's bit her little girl (18mth year old) on the face, an inch away from her eye. She is ok, but I think she's having nightmares as during the day she is fine and at night she doesn't go down So my questions: a) As a dog owner, what would you do if your dog (it was the father's cousin's dog) bit a toddler (member of the family) on her face? b) As a parent, what would you do in my friend's position - what would you expect the dog owner to do? c) As a parent and a dog owner - what is your take? d) Other opinions? Interesting to see people's opinions. BB x Last edited by BBx; 08-12-2010 at 13:18.

08-12-2010, 13:38	#2
vix Penelope Pitstop Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,426	I'd always be interested to know what the child was doing at the time. Children need to know that dogs aren't toys and you can't just go up to them and poke them. Of course eveery circumstance is different but often the dog was provoked. __________________

08-12-2010, 13:41	#3
Kitten Spinky-Spank Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 668. The Neighbour of the Beast Posts: 11,226	hhmmmm. Very difficult, and I tried to answer both a, b and c, but each time came up with: depends entirely on the circumstances. Eitherway (as dog owner or parent) I would want to know: How old is the dog, and how long have the family had it? Was the child left alone with the dog? Was the child playing with the dog? If so, what was she doing? If the attack seems unprovoked, has the dog been ill recently or has anything happened to spook it? (fireworks, candles, loud bangs (perhaps balloons if it's a party?), lots of new people around & dog getting overexcited? Has the dog shown any aggression before? To adults, children, other dogs? If so, what were the circumstances? See, I would need to know the answers to these questions before I could make a decision or even comment. It could be that the baby spooked the dog, pulled its tail, yelled at it, anything. Or perhaps the dog saw an opportunity to remove a weaker pack member (although if the baby isn't part of the immediate family and alone with it, then it's probably unlikely). It's very hard to call, as it's so emotive for all involved. Sorry, that's probably not much help. I'm glad the little girl is ok though, hope she has a speedy & full recovery. __________________ "You only get one life. There's no God, no rules, except for those you accept or create for yourself. Then once it's over... it's over. Dreamless sleep for ever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here?" Nate Fisher

08-12-2010, 14:00	#5
Justsomebloke The Night Worker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,228	Hi BB, My little Sister got a small Jack & then rang me to ask what i thought of them etc, They are Lovely little dogs, great for field work, ratting etc Good hardy dogs as well that don't seem to suffer any known ailments that end up costing a bomb at the vets. Having said all that though He Will Bite Brooke (me niece) No if's or buts he Will bite her sooner rather than later. No he won't she says hes Lovely etc etc etc. 7 weeks later when i asked about the dog she said she had to rehome him becaus he Bit Brooke on the cheek. I take no pleasure in being right & Brooke wasn't realy hurt, Although jacks bite kids they seldom hang on & leave a scar, I put it down to them being so little, hard & Defensive. You have to remember a dog hasn't got hands to push a kid away so he Nips them. Knowing these dogs as i do I would still have one around my own kid/kids but it would be the kind of dog that goes Everywhere with it's Master (Me). I would also like to add that i do control my own dog & have a Proper Master over dog relationship, If i say down to my dog in the right voice he drops to his belly Instantly no matter what & i mean No matter what. Just my own experience speaking & not meant to offend anyone. As for how i think the dog owners should react; I think they should be Humble & apologetic & keep the dog in a seperate room away from visiting kids from this point on. __________________

08-12-2010, 14:07	#7
Kitten Spinky-Spank Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 668. The Neighbour of the Beast Posts: 11,226	Sounds to me like the dog might have been overwhelmed with all the people there - unless that's usual. Could have been playing, got a bit over-excited and giddy and gone in too rough or could have been intentioned bite. I'm pretty much with Malc with what he said Edit: Didn't see that bit at the bottom - in that case, totally the owner's fault for not keeping it away, especially if they are aware of the history (I'm assuming that's the case, they knew, but your friend didn't). That's totally irresponsible imo. __________________ "You only get one life. There's no God, no rules, except for those you accept or create for yourself. Then once it's over... it's over. Dreamless sleep for ever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here?" Nate Fisher

08-12-2010, 15:18	#8
Roberta Pole Model Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,986	Totally agree with Malc. Terriers are hunting dogs and will nip. It's their nature. People owning terriers must be aware of this and understand that if something moves fast or seems threatening a nip will often follow. If the dog is continually biting then I ultimately lay responsibility at the owners door. To nip once is an accident, 3 times is unacceptable. __________________ I fell out of favour with Heaven somewhere, and I'm here for the hell of it now...

09-12-2010, 10:51	#9
BBx Reverse SuBo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London Posts: 8,673	Apparently, the RSPCA will retrain him and if that doesn't work, then they will put him down. The dog is now living with the mother in law and the MIL is now saying that no-one can take the dog away from her house to have him put down. She says if anyone tries, then she'll call the police and is prepared to spend her life savings on protecting him :/ By the way it wasn't a JR it was a Westy - how wrong was I?! BB x

09-12-2010, 12:05	#10
Justsomebloke The Night Worker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,228	I've not got much experience with Westys but the ones i have met have been quite assured & reasonably mellow for a small dog. I'd say teh dog has some issues & re training is definately the way forward. Hopefully the woman will keep him away from kids for the time being & Gradually re introduce/socialise him. __________________