DSLR or not

Mark · 02-04-2007, 14:08

I've been considering which camera to get next for about the last year, but not having holidays or the likes to go on has meant no urgency. Now, that's changed. I have under three weeks.

My last two cameras have been Sony - specifically DSC-F717 and DSC-P200. The fact that I had an F717 shows I'm not averse to big cameras, but there is of course a time and a place for compacts. The P200 is fine and I'll be keeping it, the F717 is long in the tooth and frankly, though it was top of the range in it's day, I'm generally much happier with the output from the P200.

Continuing with the theme, my next camera was going to be a DSC-H5 (Bridge camera, 12x zoom, same as the one owned by Mejinks). Three months ago I would have got it, no question. That's changed now the camera has been superceded by the DSC-H9. Unfortunately I can't wait for that, as it's not due to hit the shops until about a month after I get back. I can of course still get the H5, but now I know it's an old model, I'm not sure I want to.

So, that brings me to what else. I do have a habit of trying to push cameras as far as they will go, and sometimes beyond, with the inevitable disappointment that follows. But, given my eyesight, I'm never going to be that good and I'm usually going to be relying on the camera to do some of the work (particularly focusing). Even so, I'm definitely not averse to use of manual settings - and regularly do use them, even on the compact.

My primary use is going to be holiday shots, and for those alone I'd be happy with most cameras, but I do like going to shows, sporting events and airshows, and those are where the problems start. I've never had a camera that's produced even close to satisfactory output from airshows, and while I've done better at sporting events and shows, I know there is much room for improvement. I'll certainly be going to Busch Gardens and SeaWorld while on holiday, and I'll certainly want to be taking action shots while there.

This is what brings me well out of the compact territory. I thought a bridge camera would be a happy medium, but now I'm not so sure given their poor low light performance. This is why I've been considering a 'low-end' DSLR. Problem is, I really don't want to spend several thousand pounds on a camera and lenses. I certainly don't mind spending £600-£1,000 though, if a camera is going to satisfy my needs for more than the typical two years I'm getting out of existing cameras. Buying two non-DSLR cameras would get me well into the £600 territory so it's economically justifiable.

I've asked a similar question on other forums, but as the majority don't know me, I got the answer I expected. I need a more candid answer from those who do know me. As you know, I reserve the right to make my own decision at the end, but that doesn't mean the comments aren't welcomed or don't help me find the right decision - particularly as I have an extreme lack of knowledge in this area.

Matblack · 02-04-2007, 14:27

In your situation I would not go DSLR.

Yes that are great but you MUST compose the picture via the viewfinder, there is no way to preview on the LCD.

Also to get the kind of zoom you would be looking for with a 'bridge' you are going to pay a lot of money and have a very large lens. Because of the smaller sensor on a bridge you will need a shorter lens to get a similar zoom, the zoom on the S5900 is 10x and its not a very big camera.

As for low light performance then yes a DSLR will perform better because of the larger CCD but poor light performance is also a factor of very high pixel count CCDs, the more pixel density the more noise at low light tends to be the way it works.

I bought a bridge, it gives me more flexibility than a compact, it cost £220 and I physically can't spend a lot of money buying new lens, but it will give me a chance to use a camera which feels and performs like a DSLR. If I find I am using the manual functions then I will upgrade to a DSLR in a year or so. The S5900 has the best low light performance for its price point, better than its bigger brother. Yes it has its restrictions but thats why its a 'bridge', a bridge between compacts and DSLRs and sometimes its a good idea to take the bridge rather than try to jump to the other side of the river!

MB

Mark · 02-04-2007, 15:05

I've found that I tend to use the LCD for static images and the viewfinder for moving ones - the LCD just isn't fast or accurate enough for moving images. I do routinely test the viewfinder on any camera I'm considering purchasing and reject any I can't use, but it's certainly my biggest concern particularly for things like focusing where I will need (and probably not be able to see) fine detail.

I'm inclined to agree with you Matt - a bridge camera was my first choice and probably still is, but given the limitations I've hit with cameras in the past I don't want to end up being disappointed again.

Either way, this still leaves me with the 'which one?' problem. I do like cropping stuff so megapixels are good, but I also don't like noise and would like low light performance, which, as you rightly point out, is the major bane of high-megapixel sensors.

Flibster · 02-04-2007, 15:28

The newer Olympus Dslr's offer live view.
E-330, E-410 and E-510 have it iirc.

I know that I could walk into my local shop and get the E-330 with the 14-45mm lens and an additional Sigma 55-200mm lens and walk out with change from £500.

It's not the greatest camera in the world though, and it's not the best designed camera either. It's a bit boxy.

The E-410 and E-510 look much better designed.

Simon/~Flibster

Mark · 02-04-2007, 15:50

No - I'm using US release dates for that very reason. SonyStyle is reporting May 11th or June 9th, depending on model. I don't know if any of the other channels will get them any quicker.

Mark · 02-04-2007, 15:58

Thanks for the idea though - I was hoping.

I'm going to start touring the local camera shops tomorrow (even if I end up buying online I want to have the cameras in my hands first), so I'll be on MSN, in the CB, and here tonight to bounce ideas around.

petemc · 02-04-2007, 16:53

The thing is if you bought a DSLR for £600-£1000 you will need a good telephoto for airshows. Now a good telephoto is going to cost you more than what you paid for the camera. I think a bridge camera with nice low light performance and a huge zoom would be your best bet.

Mark · 02-04-2007, 22:14

Aye, that's what I suspected on the lens front. I can get an 18-135 kit lens for not much money, but what it'll be like at the telephoto end I'm not sure about, and even an average bridge camera has four times the zoom. I'm firmly back in bridge camera range.

So, that leaves the 'what to get' question. In the past I've tended to rely in places like dpreview for reviews. They tend to compare them with DSLR equipment for image quality and thus almost always rip them apart on that aspect which doesn't give me much confidence given that it's image quality I'm after.

Looking at the Fuji models, my only reluctance is with the xD cards. They do seem to tick most boxes though - e.g. RAW support (something I know the existing Sony models lack).

Other than Matt's suggestion, any others to consider? I know there's the obvious Canon S3 IS, but that's getting a bit old now.

Dr. Z · 03-04-2007, 03:23

My only thought would be that yes, alright "new" cameras are nice to have but ultimately is it going to make enough difference to you to warrant the extra cost, hassle and delay waiting for it?

I know that realistically, providing I am using the right lens for the job etc etc, a mere 6mp is still to this day absolutely fine for what I use my DSLR for, so heaven knows why you would want more pixels than that in a smaller sensor format.

petemc · 03-04-2007, 08:15

Agreed. While the Canon S3 IS is "old" its not like its gone bad. My Canon 10D is about 4 years old and only 6.4mp but personally I feel that it will take a better shot than any compact on the market. I can print it to 30x20'' too. The other issue with a new camera is there won't be any reviews. You won't know if they screwed up

02-04-2007, 14:08	#1
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	DSLR or not I've been considering which camera to get next for about the last year, but not having holidays or the likes to go on has meant no urgency. Now, that's changed. I have under three weeks. My last two cameras have been Sony - specifically DSC-F717 and DSC-P200. The fact that I had an F717 shows I'm not averse to big cameras, but there is of course a time and a place for compacts. The P200 is fine and I'll be keeping it, the F717 is long in the tooth and frankly, though it was top of the range in it's day, I'm generally much happier with the output from the P200. Continuing with the theme, my next camera was going to be a DSC-H5 (Bridge camera, 12x zoom, same as the one owned by Mejinks). Three months ago I would have got it, no question. That's changed now the camera has been superceded by the DSC-H9. Unfortunately I can't wait for that, as it's not due to hit the shops until about a month after I get back. I can of course still get the H5, but now I know it's an old model, I'm not sure I want to. So, that brings me to what else. I do have a habit of trying to push cameras as far as they will go, and sometimes beyond, with the inevitable disappointment that follows. But, given my eyesight, I'm never going to be that good and I'm usually going to be relying on the camera to do some of the work (particularly focusing). Even so, I'm definitely not averse to use of manual settings - and regularly do use them, even on the compact. My primary use is going to be holiday shots, and for those alone I'd be happy with most cameras, but I do like going to shows, sporting events and airshows, and those are where the problems start. I've never had a camera that's produced even close to satisfactory output from airshows, and while I've done better at sporting events and shows, I know there is much room for improvement. I'll certainly be going to Busch Gardens and SeaWorld while on holiday, and I'll certainly want to be taking action shots while there. This is what brings me well out of the compact territory. I thought a bridge camera would be a happy medium, but now I'm not so sure given their poor low light performance. This is why I've been considering a 'low-end' DSLR. Problem is, I really don't want to spend several thousand pounds on a camera and lenses. I certainly don't mind spending £600-£1,000 though, if a camera is going to satisfy my needs for more than the typical two years I'm getting out of existing cameras. Buying two non-DSLR cameras would get me well into the £600 territory so it's economically justifiable. I've asked a similar question on other forums, but as the majority don't know me, I got the answer I expected. I need a more candid answer from those who do know me. As you know, I reserve the right to make my own decision at the end, but that doesn't mean the comments aren't welcomed or don't help me find the right decision - particularly as I have an extreme lack of knowledge in this area.

02-04-2007, 14:27	#2
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	In your situation I would not go DSLR. Yes that are great but you MUST compose the picture via the viewfinder, there is no way to preview on the LCD. Also to get the kind of zoom you would be looking for with a 'bridge' you are going to pay a lot of money and have a very large lens. Because of the smaller sensor on a bridge you will need a shorter lens to get a similar zoom, the zoom on the S5900 is 10x and its not a very big camera. As for low light performance then yes a DSLR will perform better because of the larger CCD but poor light performance is also a factor of very high pixel count CCDs, the more pixel density the more noise at low light tends to be the way it works. I bought a bridge, it gives me more flexibility than a compact, it cost £220 and I physically can't spend a lot of money buying new lens, but it will give me a chance to use a camera which feels and performs like a DSLR. If I find I am using the manual functions then I will upgrade to a DSLR in a year or so. The S5900 has the best low light performance for its price point, better than its bigger brother. Yes it has its restrictions but thats why its a 'bridge', a bridge between compacts and DSLRs and sometimes its a good idea to take the bridge rather than try to jump to the other side of the river! MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

02-04-2007, 15:05	#3
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I've found that I tend to use the LCD for static images and the viewfinder for moving ones - the LCD just isn't fast or accurate enough for moving images. I do routinely test the viewfinder on any camera I'm considering purchasing and reject any I can't use, but it's certainly my biggest concern particularly for things like focusing where I will need (and probably not be able to see) fine detail. I'm inclined to agree with you Matt - a bridge camera was my first choice and probably still is, but given the limitations I've hit with cameras in the past I don't want to end up being disappointed again. Either way, this still leaves me with the 'which one?' problem. I do like cropping stuff so megapixels are good, but I also don't like noise and would like low light performance, which, as you rightly point out, is the major bane of high-megapixel sensors. Last edited by Mark; 02-04-2007 at 15:10.

02-04-2007, 15:28	#4
Flibster Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,388	The newer Olympus Dslr's offer live view. E-330, E-410 and E-510 have it iirc. I know that I could walk into my local shop and get the E-330 with the 14-45mm lens and an additional Sigma 55-200mm lens and walk out with change from £500. It's not the greatest camera in the world though, and it's not the best designed camera either. It's a bit boxy. The E-410 and E-510 look much better designed. Simon/~Flibster __________________

02-04-2007, 16:53	#7
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	The thing is if you bought a DSLR for £600-£1000 you will need a good telephoto for airshows. Now a good telephoto is going to cost you more than what you paid for the camera. I think a bridge camera with nice low light performance and a huge zoom would be your best bet. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

02-04-2007, 15:50	#5
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	No - I'm using US release dates for that very reason. SonyStyle is reporting May 11th or June 9th, depending on model. I don't know if any of the other channels will get them any quicker.

02-04-2007, 15:58	#6
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Thanks for the idea though - I was hoping. I'm going to start touring the local camera shops tomorrow (even if I end up buying online I want to have the cameras in my hands first), so I'll be on MSN, in the CB, and here tonight to bounce ideas around.

02-04-2007, 22:14	#8
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Aye, that's what I suspected on the lens front. I can get an 18-135 kit lens for not much money, but what it'll be like at the telephoto end I'm not sure about, and even an average bridge camera has four times the zoom. I'm firmly back in bridge camera range. So, that leaves the 'what to get' question. In the past I've tended to rely in places like dpreview for reviews. They tend to compare them with DSLR equipment for image quality and thus almost always rip them apart on that aspect which doesn't give me much confidence given that it's image quality I'm after. Looking at the Fuji models, my only reluctance is with the xD cards. They do seem to tick most boxes though - e.g. RAW support (something I know the existing Sony models lack). Other than Matt's suggestion, any others to consider? I know there's the obvious Canon S3 IS, but that's getting a bit old now.

03-04-2007, 03:23	#9
Dr. Z I'm going for a scuttle... Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,021	My only thought would be that yes, alright "new" cameras are nice to have but ultimately is it going to make enough difference to you to warrant the extra cost, hassle and delay waiting for it? I know that realistically, providing I am using the right lens for the job etc etc, a mere 6mp is still to this day absolutely fine for what I use my DSLR for, so heaven knows why you would want more pixels than that in a smaller sensor format. __________________

03-04-2007, 08:15	#10
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	Agreed. While the Canon S3 IS is "old" its not like its gone bad. My Canon 10D is about 4 years old and only 6.4mp but personally I feel that it will take a better shot than any compact on the market. I can print it to 30x20'' too. The other issue with a new camera is there won't be any reviews. You won't know if they screwed up __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!