Thoughts on Suicide

[loki]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

I can't think of a case where that has happened, surely Edison would have suicided if that were the case

In general terms it was discovered when Durkheim conducted his study into social influences on suicide. The best way to describe it would be if you have everything at your disposal and felt you could no longer offer anything to society then you would be just as likeley to commit suicide as someone who was either destitute or without any money.

Durkheim argued that economic affluence, by stimulating human desires, carries with it dangers of anomic conditions because it "deceives us into believing that we depend on ourselves only," while "poverty protects against suicide because itis a restraint in itself." Since the realization of human desires depends upon the resources at hand, the poor are restrained, and henceless prone to suffer from anomie by virtue of the fact that they possess but limited resources. "The less one has the less he is tempted to extend the range of his needs indefinitely."

Article

[Gnat]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

I wonder about this sometimes. I think all depressives need to snap-out-of-it but question is how to make them...

I suppose that all depends on what is making them depressed in the first place?

The only time I have ever been truly depressed, (rather than just feeling a bit sorry for myself) was due to bereavement, and that I think is because I couldn't understand how anything would ever get better, as it wasn't a situation that was going to change - if someone has died they aren't coming back. At that time if anyone had told me that tings would have worked out ok in the end, I wouldn't have believed them, and really did think that I didn't want to live with the way things were, so it seemed like it was impossible for me to snap out of it.

[NokkonWud]

Originally Posted by Takhisis

So you're saying a mental illness can't be crippling? That because it is in the head it isn't painful? That someone in the depths of depression can't be seen as being a "drain" on others?

A mental illness is a crippling illness.

[NokkonWud]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

So you say nothing is hopeless but also infer that painful and degenerative diseases could end in legitimate suicide...

I said nothing is hopeless in terms of financial disaster. Something as damaging as a fatal illness isn't recoverable though is it.

[NokkonWud]

Originally Posted by Blighter

I feel that if you are really ill (i.e. on a life support machine/coma/whatever where you WONT get better), then yes, suicide might be more suitable then living.

Just think, would you rather your love ones go through a month of hell on a machine that's keeping them alive, or would you rather them have a peaceful death without any pain?

This is what I was getting at.

[Jingo]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

I think all depressives need to snap-out-of-it but question is how to make them...

I think the above statement shows how little you indeed know about people truly suffering with a manic mental condition.

A huge issue, touched on by Pebs, is the distinguishment of depressives and people feeling sorry for themselves/feeling a bit down etc; The latter of these, in a way, make a mockery of those who have real issues.

[Pheebs]

Dude!! I thought you were studying psychotherapy!! From what I have seen you're reactions to certain topics suggests you can have very black and white point of views and no middle ground... something which any psychologist would suggest is a fatal flaw! Maybe you're just trying to get a debate going, I'm unsure, but I indeed hope you are for the sake of potential clients you have in the future!

Much of what you have said is very one tracked with regards to depression - look at Olibubbles example - depression isn't always as easy as an attention seeking must-snap-out-of-it illness! What about SAD too? It's an biochemical imbalance - nothing to do with needing to snap-out-of-it! They just literally physically can't.

On the topic though, I think it's nigh-on impossible to generalise whether suicide/euthanasia is morally and ethically right. Personally, I would consider certain situations to be acceptable (such as those with terminal illnesses and who has wished for their life to be ended prematurely to stop their and their familes/friends prolonged suffering). But, this is just my opinion and to be frank, it would depend on the individual situation itself.

Personally, I could never ever commit suicide unless I only had a short time to live and was aware that my death would be slow and painful. Watching my Nanny die of cancer is an example where I would have asked to pull the plug. She actively didn't take drugs towards the end because she just wanted to pass on quicker due to the pain. There was nothing we can do and her last week in hospital she was incapacitated, couldn't do anything without being in pain (even though she was dosed to the high hills on morphine)... and it was horrendous for her and sadly for us too. From where she couldn't drink her tongue had dried out and ulcerated too - all she could do was blink at us.

So yeh... through severe terminal illness I would quite possibly turn to suicide. I don't think I could ever pop any pills/jump off a cliff though. In my eyes there are too many good people in this world who have lost their lives involuntarily and to me it seems unfair to take my own knowing these people would have given anything to live on.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by James

I think the above statement shows how little you indeed know about people truly suffering with a manic mental condition.

It demonstrates how willing some are to accept the standard answers on depression, as many are, through lack of their own personal experience.

Originally Posted by Pheebs

Dude!! I thought you were studying psychotherapy!! From what I have seen you're reactions to certain topics suggests you can have very black and white point of views and no middle ground... something which any psychologist would suggest is a fatal flaw! Maybe you're just trying to get a debate going, I'm unsure, but I indeed hope you are for the sake of potential clients you have in the future!

Hahaha, remind me to criticise your cards

Originally Posted by Pheebs

Much of what you have said is very one tracked with regards to depression - look at Olibubbles example - depression isn't always as easy as an attention seeking must-snap-out-of-it illness! What about SAD too? It's an biochemical imbalance - nothing to do with needing to snap-out-of-it! They just literally physically can't.

What you underestimate is how little 'experts' actually know about depression - the 'chemical imbalance' is often touted as if it explained anything but its far more complex than that and whilst it IS true that some psychologists do consider depression to be a chemical imbalance, and there is evidence that neurotransmitter uptake can influence depression, it is just one angle and by no means an authoritative explanation of depression. If the only way of treating depression were the chemical kosh then we'd be in trouble - at the moment antidepressants are a popular treatment for financial and political reasons but the government are moving away from that and I hope we will see more non-drug help for people in the future.


I don't think there is any one approach although 'snapping out of it' is often a good expression as a depressed person can change their mood without their circumstances changing - the right experience can change their mood a lot. Hence why I think suicide may be an evolutionary mechanism designed so that people whose communities wont rescue/help them will remove themselves from the gene pool - which is pretty bad considering how easy it is to get isolated in this big society of ours. Saying its a chemical imbalance may only be treating a symptom, and not the cause of depression. It is better possible to get better, but its a near mystery to exactly what works with any predictability.

[cheets]

You are the master of your own destiny.

[Desmo]

That's a bit simplistic though isn't it

We don't always have the control we think we will. I have a close family member who I thought was one of the strongest minded people I know. Something major happened in their life and they changed, very depressed, bed-ridden, had the strangest thoughts that other family members were against them. It was only with some family help and time that they pulled through it. But left to their own devices? Not sure what would have happened. It took some time but looking at them now you'd never have known.