Footballers = overpaid muppets?

[leowyatt]

Originally Posted by Will

even rugby most of the players have been educated to a-level and above - so you can have a professional sporting career and still have some modicum of academia to at least be relatively coherent or interesting.

Sorry Will but that is a very biased answer. I assume you are talking about Rugby Union which is always played by posh/grammar schools and don't play football as it is too common, so of course the rugby players will have a higher level of education than the footballer who goes to a worse school.

At my school the rugby union team were treated like Gods and they were as thick as they came, they did the only thing they were good at. These were lads who were attending a grammar school which cost their parents around 15k a year to attend and got a bloody good education but simply couldn't take it in.

Rugby Union is primarly played in the south where as League is very much a nothern sport. So I think if you include all rugby variations then you'll see that there are some which have a higher level of education than others and the same can be said of football.

[Piggymon]

I''ve got nothing really to add about football players but Will, you have made me rather angry this evening.

Your posts seem to be saying that because someone isn't educated to University level, they aren't interesting or intelligent..

Guess what ? I didn't go to Uni, I dropped out of college and I'm not on a high-flying career path. I don't get up at 5am every morning and I work my standard 40 hours a week and nothing more but does that make me any less of a person ?

It seems to in your eyes going by the comments you made these last few months

I'm sure you don't mean to look down your nose at people but it's really felt like that recently :/

[Will]

Originally Posted by Kitten

I just reread your post above and noticed what you said about the A-levels (i don't think that was there before). A good education comes from (generally) a good background and a good start in life. Footballers start on a level playing field (pardon the pun). Having money, or a fantastic eduction doesn't make one lad any better than the kid next door who has been brought up on a shoestring but can beat any goalie in the school.

Football is one of the only areas where kids like that have a chance to get somewhere. And yes it would be nice if everyone was well educated, and passed lots of exams, but where would the hope be for the thick or poor kids that don't have that option?

My point was you don't have to be well educated to succeed or achieve a lot of money - but as a responsibility to the children that are idolising you you have to make the effort to reform them. Yes not everyone is academic, hell, I'm not, however i make the effort to share the education I've had, to make sure that the people I have an effect on walk down a better path. I know football for a lot of deprived areas is the common denominator and the language that everyone understands, and in the main keeps them out of trouble (though I'm guessing only a proportion). That in itself is great, but it's only part of all of it.

You're quite right that education is owing to how one is brought up and the lifestyle that has been bestowed on you as well as the moral guidance offered as an infant. However that doesn't mean that owing to an unlucky start to life all that a person can achieve is tunnel vision for football. The responsibility of the players that earn these huge bits of cash do affect the young. Yes it inspires kids to become footballers, but not everyone can be a footballer, and they can't let it rule their lives either.

It's this dependence and obsession to almost grotesque levels that I find very disconcerting and it makes me very uncomfortable. Passion is not something I'm adverse to either. You've spent time in Latin countries yourself, and in the Mediterranean, you know that their lifestyles are based around heart rather than head. However, there are times when you have to stop chasing daydreams and concentrate on the cold hard truth that an education is going to help you more than knowing all the clubs all the players and all the vital stats of every football club and player in the country - though obviously that would be quite impressive.

I'm being rather cackhanded at putting my point across tonight (I blame 3x 14hr days starting early!) - I'm not castigating football or it's fans or people that love it. On the contrary it's good. What I am chastising is the level and the association of the problems that seem to be bleached out by the idolisation of football players which regardless of their past, that football and the sums of money involved can cause.

Football is a common language for a lot of people - but talking is another common language we can use - it doesn't mean that every person does it correctly, and hence mis-interpretations happen which leads to conflict. I just want to be able to see kids and adults enjoying football, in mixed fan crowds, see people play that actually care about the game and it's supporters, are suitably paid, and de-sensationalise the overhyped nature of the sport in this country.

I want to be able to say "I don't support a football team" without people's jaws dropping and being labelled as some outcast, or dare admit that I don't like football for fear of flagellation. I want to be able to watch the news without a 30 minute chat about football on every channel. The balance is askew it's actually not health - there is a very distorted view what the differences are between being a fan and being an evangelistic zealot.

Malc's last paragraph post is very poignant on my feelings. If we are going to keep the obsession we have with football, the players need to take more responsibility and in my opinion earn their money and deserve it rather than apathetically accept it as part and parcel of the job. That sort of attitude stinks.

[Pebs]

Originally Posted by Will

Just to contrast, in general other athletes (from athletics to swimming to golf), or even rugby most of the players have been educated to a-level and above - so you can have a professional sporting career and still have some modicum of academia to at least be relatively coherent or interesting.

What in gods name has education got to do with sports ability? And a-levels got to do with coherance and being interesting?

[Will]

Originally Posted by Piggymon

I''ve got nothing really to add about football players but Will, you have made me rather angry this evening.

Your posts seem to be saying that because someone isn't educated to University level, they aren't interesting or intelligent..

Guess what ? I didn't go to Uni, I dropped out of college and I'm not on a high-flying career path. I don't get up at 5am every morning and I work my standard 40 hours a week and nothing more but does that make me any less of a person ?

It seems to in your eyes going by the comments you made these last few months

I'm sure you don't mean to look down your nose at people but it's really felt like that recently :/

I've said nothing of the sort. I've implied that they have a responsibility to promote education in spite of being ill educated themselves. They have the ability to play good football and they have achieved it - this doesn't mean others can either.

Never once did I imply that people who haven't been lucky to receive a good education aren't worthy of achievements - what a ridiculous interpretation that is - it is I that is mildly miffed that you'd think I'd say or think something like that. :/

And hey if I've managed to rustle some feathers it's a good thing, it's part of debate, makes you think. Just like when I read that tripe called the Daily Mail - makes me extremely agitated and angry and feel compelled to write to the editor. Evoking reactions and feelings is part of what this thread is all about and about understanding the underlying passions/attachments/stigmas attached to football.

I won't hide it, yes I do have a snobby side, it does come out at times, but that's who I am. I don't mean for it too, and in spite of my flaws it doesn't change who I am does it? So I make a few mistakes, and I think that some things are below me?! Who honestly doesn't do that?

[Will]

Originally Posted by Pebs

What in gods name has education got to do with sports ability? And a-levels got to do with coherance and being interesting?

Nothing - I've already explained the reasoning behind my debate, albeit somewhat out of context to the original post I must say.

[Pebs]

Well, if a debate is based around ruffling peoples feathers and being a pretentious sanctimonious eejit then I step away from this debate. Snobby is fine so long as it's not snobby at the expense of 'friends' values and feelings.

[Will]

I'm just not that good at spitting it out.

And Karyn, please don't go aggressive on me it really isn't meant to be that way

[Davey_Pitch]

I won't comment on some of the earlier posts as I think they've been explained, but I would like to add one thing regarding the "intelligence" of footballers. It is indeed correct that most of them have a basic education. Some of them do come across as a bit thick when they're interviewed on TV. However, in many ways their brains are sharper and work faster than any one of us on this forum. I watch football, and I play as much as I can, and often the difference between a good player and a great player isn't in their ability to control or pass a football, it's in their mental abilities, the way they instantly look around and make the right decision based on what they take in from a split second glance.

Take last nights game for example, where Beckham crossed for Crouch to equalise. When the ball was rolling to Beckham, he looked up for literally a split second. In that time he saw Crouch running into the box, and he figured out exactly how much power to put on the cross, how much elevation, how far in front of Crouch it neeed to be (taking into account how fast Crouch as running), and did it all while being closed down by a defender. That's not just footballing skill, that's sheer brain power. It's just brain power of a different sort.

[Pebs]

Originally Posted by Will

And Karyn, please don't go aggressive on me it really isn't meant to be that way

I'm not getting aggressive Will, trust me. I'm saying what I think in a couple of sentences rather than padding it all out into half a page with big words and veiled criticisms.