Becoming Microsoft Certified (or similar) - Page 3

phykell · 02-03-2009, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

It's a perfectly cromulent word. I think you mean inexorable.

I deliberately chose the word, "inescapable" as I felt it to be both more meaningful and illustrative. Language is supposed to convey meaning, and that was exactly my intention. In this instance, Blighter cannot escape from the truth, it's going to hunt him down. Perhaps you could describe it as unyielding but I prefer my choice

Blighter is a geek - he's like a piece of Blackpool rock! If you cut him in half you'd see the word "GEEK"

But why waste time concentrating on someone's career choice, a potentially-life changing point in a person's life, when we could be discussing etymology, eh?

Blighter · 02-03-2009, 20:04

Someone just suggested thinking about going to uni... is it worth the amount of time + money or should I be looking at getting experience?

cleanbluesky · 02-03-2009, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by phykell

I deliberately chose the word, "inescapable" as I felt it to be both more meaningful and illustrative. Language is supposed to convey meaning, and that was exactly my intention. In this instance, Blighter cannot escape from the truth, it's going to hunt him down. Perhaps you could describe it as unyielding but I prefer my choice

Blighter is a geek - he's like a piece of Blackpool rock! If you cut him in half you'd see the word "GEEK"

But why waste time concentrating on someone's career choice, a potentially-life changing point in a person's life, when we could be discussing etymology, eh?

That's a straw man, we're discussing heuristics from a phenomenological point of view with the acknowledged solipsism and perhaps a twist of ontology.

Blighter · 02-03-2009, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by phykell

I deliberately chose the word, "inescapable" as I felt it to be both more meaningful and illustrative. Language is supposed to convey meaning, and that was exactly my intention. In this instance, Blighter cannot escape from the truth, it's going to hunt him down. Perhaps you could describe it as unyielding but I prefer my choice

Blighter is a geek - he's like a piece of Blackpool rock! If you cut him in half you'd see the word "GEEK"

But why waste time concentrating on someone's career choice, a potentially-life changing point in a person's life, when we could be discussing etymology, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

That's a straw man, we're discussing heuristics from a phenomenological point of view with the acknowledged solipsism and perhaps a twist of ontology.

Well I'm lost

phykell · 02-03-2009, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blighter

Well I'm lost

So is he - hopefully, he'll disappear up his own tailpipe eventually

cleanbluesky · 02-03-2009, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blighter

Someone just suggested thinking about going to uni... is it worth the amount of time + money or should I be looking at getting experience?

That depends on what your aims and expectations are. It also depends on how accessible Uni would be to you and what career you would like to take.

I'm sure a few people here will say something about experience in the IT industry and to some extent they would be right - but education is about more than just being eligible for a job or a role within a company - to some extent it forces you to think for yourself, which is generally useful.

Wryel · 02-03-2009, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blighter

Is it worth it?

I think my stong point in IT is network/server management so am thinking about getting a Microsoft Certification in Server 2003/2007 or maybe doing my Network+ and A+ exams.

Do you think they are worth it? Every single job I've looked at (and that's >100) say they want people with 2years+ experience. How are you meant to get into IT?

This is how it worked for me:

Get a degree unrelated to IT. (This is optional

)

My first job was in EPOS (installing tills etc) half IT, half shop fitter. I got that job through my existing IT knowledge and sounding desperate to get a job in IT where had the chance to learn. Stayed there for 7 months and went to PC Servicecall (PC World tech support) for 6 months which was hell but it possibly helped me get my next job as a cover engineer in an IT company. That was basically covering holidays for 2nd line roles we covered in the local area. Stayed there for about 18 months. Then I moved to London and got a 2nd line role in another IT company and I've been with the company for about 2 1/2 years. I'm now at one of their most high profile sites (posh investment bank) and I still don't have any qualifications apart from my ITIL foundation which isn't technical although very popular.

For about the first 2 years I told companies I was studying to eventually get an MCSE but I never actually took any exams so I don't think that really helped me. There's a guy on our helpdesk that has an MCSE and he is useless. No common sense and clearly not motivated at all. By all means study but you need to back it up with experience so don't go for an MCSE or anything similar until you've been in IT for a while.

If you have no IT experience I would say go for a helpdesk job that isn't all technical and work your way up. I've been put in to do my MCSDT (Microsoft Certified Desktop Technician) which is apparently quite easy but I have to do it to get my MCSE.

Del Lardo · 02-03-2009, 21:47

Agree with what Wyrel has said, looked into doing an MCSE when I finished University and was advised against it without proper experience to back it up.

As for whether you should go to Uni, well that's a decision only you can make. I had a great time at Uni (too great if I'm honest as the end result was a fail) but I did leave £11k in debt which I'm still paying off now much to my annoyance. I still consider myself to be lucky in that respect as I'll have paid off my loan in 2 years time (same month I turn 30) and I know plenty of people who will still be paying their loans off when they're 40+

I'd also think very carefully about whether you actually want to work in IT. I know there a number of IT workers on here who can offer advise as well but for me working with computers on a daily basis has pretty much destroyed any interest I once had in computers. I'm lucky that my career path is allowing me to move into technical presales engineering (which not only pays better but means less computers) but if I couldn't then I would have to seriously consider a full career change as computers for me have stopped being a hobby and become a mean to an end.

Hopefully not been too negative as I've just dumped my thoughts down but there's so many people that see "IT" as a career nowadays as they know a bit about computers when they'd be far better looking a bit further afield.

Chuckles · 02-03-2009, 22:57

As others have said really, although it will be a slight advantage, experience is far, far more desired by employers.

I worked up from doing tech support and I think you would find most people did something similar.

If you can get a helpdesk/first line support job in a decent company, they will pay to put you through the exams if they feel you need them.

About 4 years ago, I did tech support at the Microsoft TechEd conference in Amsterdam and half of the people with MSCE's were totally clueless. They put DHCP servers on the wrong VLAN's which screwed up the whole network and struggled to get laptops connected to the WLAN

Chuckles · 02-03-2009, 23:13

This is how I did it if you find it useful.

1) Got a summer job doing data entry at the Body Shop head offices after I graduated (Degree was Philosophy, so not IT related

)
2) Learned VBA and automated my job
3) Got offered a perm job writing reports on AS400 systems
4) Moved to another company doing first line support
5) Promoted to second line
6) Promoted to Applications administrator (managing finance/production systems)
7) Promoted to Systems administrator (although retaining all the applications stuff)

You have to be incredibly flexible in these kinds of jobs. You can go through quiet periods if everything is working OK, but during projects, I've done 80+ hours a week and have ended up doing 31 hours straight once.

When you are on first/second line, most companies will expect you to be on call 24/7 for a week every month or 2 depending on your rota.

It's an incredibly thankless job, because even when you complete a major install, you only ever get grief from managers who moan about tiny problems while completely ignoring the major benefits. The hours can screw with relationships as well (not sure that's a problem for you

). But me and an ex ended up breaking up and that was a major factor because I'd be getting calls when we were on holiday etc and in the middle of the night.

I probably would have taken a different direction if I was to go back 8 years. Even if I couldn't do an "A list" job (something in music), you can make as much money doing office work by doing finance and not have all the grief.

02-03-2009, 20:04	#22
Blighter Dubious Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Northampton Posts: 1,571	Someone just suggested thinking about going to uni... is it worth the amount of time + money or should I be looking at getting experience? __________________ Look at your signature, now back to mine, now back to yours, now back to mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine. But if you stopped writing about other things and made this your signature, yours could be like mine. Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on Boat Drinks, reading the signature your signature could be like. I'm on a computer. My Blog \| More Outdoors \| MSN \| Email \| Call Me

02-03-2009, 22:57	#29
Chuckles '09 sexual conquests: 4.5 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,075	As others have said really, although it will be a slight advantage, experience is far, far more desired by employers. I worked up from doing tech support and I think you would find most people did something similar. If you can get a helpdesk/first line support job in a decent company, they will pay to put you through the exams if they feel you need them. About 4 years ago, I did tech support at the Microsoft TechEd conference in Amsterdam and half of the people with MSCE's were totally clueless. They put DHCP servers on the wrong VLAN's which screwed up the whole network and struggled to get laptops connected to the WLAN __________________

02-03-2009, 23:13	#30
Chuckles '09 sexual conquests: 4.5 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,075	This is how I did it if you find it useful. 1) Got a summer job doing data entry at the Body Shop head offices after I graduated (Degree was Philosophy, so not IT related ) 2) Learned VBA and automated my job 3) Got offered a perm job writing reports on AS400 systems 4) Moved to another company doing first line support 5) Promoted to second line 6) Promoted to Applications administrator (managing finance/production systems) 7) Promoted to Systems administrator (although retaining all the applications stuff) You have to be incredibly flexible in these kinds of jobs. You can go through quiet periods if everything is working OK, but during projects, I've done 80+ hours a week and have ended up doing 31 hours straight once. When you are on first/second line, most companies will expect you to be on call 24/7 for a week every month or 2 depending on your rota. It's an incredibly thankless job, because even when you complete a major install, you only ever get grief from managers who moan about tiny problems while completely ignoring the major benefits. The hours can screw with relationships as well (not sure that's a problem for you ). But me and an ex ended up breaking up and that was a major factor because I'd be getting calls when we were on holiday etc and in the middle of the night. I probably would have taken a different direction if I was to go back 8 years. Even if I couldn't do an "A list" job (something in music), you can make as much money doing office work by doing finance and not have all the grief. __________________

02-03-2009, 21:47	#28
Del Lardo Absinthe Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cambridge Posts: 2,539	Agree with what Wyrel has said, looked into doing an MCSE when I finished University and was advised against it without proper experience to back it up. As for whether you should go to Uni, well that's a decision only you can make. I had a great time at Uni (too great if I'm honest as the end result was a fail) but I did leave £11k in debt which I'm still paying off now much to my annoyance. I still consider myself to be lucky in that respect as I'll have paid off my loan in 2 years time (same month I turn 30) and I know plenty of people who will still be paying their loans off when they're 40+ I'd also think very carefully about whether you actually want to work in IT. I know there a number of IT workers on here who can offer advise as well but for me working with computers on a daily basis has pretty much destroyed any interest I once had in computers. I'm lucky that my career path is allowing me to move into technical presales engineering (which not only pays better but means less computers) but if I couldn't then I would have to seriously consider a full career change as computers for me have stopped being a hobby and become a mean to an end. Hopefully not been too negative as I've just dumped my thoughts down but there's so many people that see "IT" as a career nowadays as they know a bit about computers when they'd be far better looking a bit further afield.