New building regulations for bathrooms - Unbelieveable.

[divine]

They're not. I've just had a quick skim read and I don't think you're understanding the 125l/d/p thing. Saying it is a 'regulation that you cannot draw more than 125' is misleading and not true.

They're not gonna have SWAT teams smashing through your windows the moment you go a drop over 125. In fact, they won't even be checking.

It's a construction guideline to promote more efficient new builds. It's a target of theoretical usage to meet.

1.1
The following document sets out the Water Calculation Methodology for assessing the
whole house water efficiency of new dwellings. The calculation method is to be used
to assess compliance against the water performance targets in Building Regulations
Part G and the Code for Sustainable Homes (referred to in this document as the Code)
as set out below. It is not a design tool for water supply and drainage systems. It is also
not capable of calculating the actual water consumption of a new dwelling. Behaviour
and changing behaviour can also have an effect on the amount of potable water used
throughout a home.

Building Regulation 17K requires that the potential consumption of wholesome water by persons occupying a dwelling must not exceed 125 litres per person per day when calculated in accordance with the methodology set out in the CLG's document 'The Water Efficiency Calculator for New Dwellings'.

It's basically to ensure new builds aren't wasteful, nor promote wasteful behaviour.

It's not a limit being applied to anyone.

[Jhadur]

If this was just a guideline why use the wording of "MUST NOT exceed" and not "should not exceed". Two completely different things.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by divine

building standards

To me building standards = it isn't going to fall down on anyone else, it isn't detrimental to other peoples homes, etc - the temperature I have my bath/shower really isn't going to affect anyone else other than me and the rats who hear me going "ooo ooo ooo" as I get in.

I know you're mainly talking about water consumption but the fact is they have packaged the whole thing together which I don't think is on - water meters with all "old" houses are optional - if they want to introduce any temperature controls into pre-existing houses, they should be optional too.

[divine]

Because the guideline is that a new build must not exceed that value, which is true for many aspects of building.

This limit is 'measured' by way of a table, it gives usage factors which are then multiplied by the capacity or flow rate of the chosen part, which is the bit the builder fills in. These are then totalled up, reduced by any greywater or rainwater contributions and this gives a daily value.

If this exceeds 125, the fittings will need to be reviewed and altered most likely, such as smaller capacity toilets etc.

The point is, it is only applied to new buildings during construction and it is a theoretical limit to ensure water efficient parts are used. It is not a limit preventing people using more than 125 litres per day.

edit - they're not introducing anything into existing housing unless you're carrying out a complete conversion.

The final part of G3 is a new requirement intended to prevent scalding and requires that the hot water supply to any fixed bath in a newly formed dwelling must be designed and installed with measures to ensure that the temperature of the water that can be delivered to the bath cannot exceed 48oC. This final part of G3 applies when a dwelling is created through new-build or conversion.

Building standards incorporate a huge swathe of things, from structural integrity to insulation efficiency to water usage. It is far from just something to prevent your house falling down. They've included such measures for decades and in recent years (and coming) they are being modified to promote more efficient construction and buildings among other things.

[Glaucus]

yep retarded. But it'll just be a special mixer tap, so a quick change. But still retarded and not needed.

[divine]

It won't be a 'quick change' because nothing needs to be changed.

[Mark]

... unless you want to avoid the 48C cap.

Don't have a problem with the 125l/d/p thing - it's a building reg and there's a tonne of those already - none of which affect me.

The 48C thing is, however, ridiculous. OK, so my shower is limited to 52C for similar reasons, but I could have got a different shower if I didn't like that. The fact that I don't like monkey baths is irrelevant - it's all about H&S gone mad (which is a change from the usual PC gone mad).

[Blighter]

I'm not allowed to sell a plastic spork to anyone under 16, but can sell metal tent pegs to a toddler.

[divine]

FFS I typed out a huge reply and then knocked the back button and it all vanished.

In summary:

Hot water is stored at a minimum of 60C to prevent legionnaires, typically 65-70C.
Generally, for an adult, anywhere above 43C is uncomfortable. source (pdf)
48C can cause third degree burns with a 5 minute exposure. source
60C can cause second/third degree burns with a 2 second exposure. source

Is anyone seriously taking baths that put them close to third degree burns if they spend more than a few minutes in the bath?

Check the temperature of your bath next time you have one, i'd be surprised to see anything higher than 45C. Anyone bathing at 48C or higher must have skin made of leather or something.

It may sound silly to some people but ultimately it is unlikely to negatively affect anyone and may well prevent a lot of injuries and even deaths.

[cheets]

Originally Posted by divine

To be fair, has anyone actually read the regulations to see what the limits will be?

Or is everyone just angry and outraged over something that might turn out to be entirely sensible?

This, the temp coming out of a hot water tape now would burn a adult never mind a kid, I cant get into a bath with the hot water tap being on full flow. water is coming out at over 70+C, if housing want to lower the temp then you have no leg to stand on.

You need to get in touch with a plumber.