So..... running - Page 117

jmc41 · 12-09-2011, 13:52

Well I went to see the doc, unfortunately the doc that used to be medic for the England cricket team was unavailable for various reasons so had to make do.

It's the lateral ligement apparently, which is quite hard to injure, the medial is more common. Not sure if that's good or bad as I've not had a chance to google yet, but she seemed to think I could get a support and run, but to keep the distance below 5 miles and not start until Wednesday.

So I got a open knee support and will give it a go with a short distance on the flattest ground around, I have a route that won't take me more than a mile from home so will see what happens. It feels pretty much okay now as it did yesterday, but then it did Friday, if it starts more than twinging I'll stop right away.

Pete: I'm not really sure you should be throwing up after every long run? I've felt pretty bad on a few runs (normally dehydration) but never actually been sick. I do like sticking my head into a sink full of cold water after anything substantial which seems to help. Are you taking on small amounts of water, I've never found the need to drink on runs, but don't normally go over 2h as I'm not (yet?!) marathon training.

[Edit] From what I've read (having never done a race) your ERP should be a minute slower than planned, so if you're doing 12:30 training you should aim for 11:30 race day, that sounds like a massive difference to me on anything above 10k though. Another thing I read is that the distance tends to be more unless you are able to follow the exact path, so I'd bank on it being more ilke 26.5 or slightly more. Again, just what I've read possibly lostkat with a GPS watch has some experience?

BBx · 12-09-2011, 23:40

10miles

1hr 33mins 38secs

BB x

Jonny69 · 13-09-2011, 08:21

Woop! That's big distance BB!

lostkat · 14-09-2011, 05:40

Cracking pace BBx, well done

Do you have any time aspiration for the HM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by petemc

18 miles done

Felt happy about that. Pace of around 12:30. Discomfort kicked in after around 13 miles but I just kept going. Only took a small break every 3 miles for water.

Only two real issues to sort now. Firstly, I will throw up after every long run. My body clearly doesn't like endurance running. So I have to work out what to do at the end. Don't fancy throwing up in front of the crowds. Dunno if I could make it to the loo after. On Sunday I finished 18 miles, walked a bit, had a drink and then went onto the beach to throw up.

Other issue is can I run faster on marathon day? 12:30 pace is around 5hrs 25 for the marathon. I'd like to get under 5hrs. I know that I could run 26 miles at 12:30, so thats the safe bet. I don't know if I could run at 11:30 or even 10:30. I could do a half at 10:30, as I already have. *shrugs*

Firstly, well done on 18 miles. Huge achievement, you should be very pleased

Not really sure what to advise on the vomiting though. How much water did you consume and what did you eat both pre-run and during the run? In my opinion, it could either be down to dehydration & low blood-sugar levels OR simply be because down to the churning of your stomach from running action, and the fact that blood is directed away from the GI tract to muscles, which, over a long period of time can cause problems. Any other symptoms apart from the vomiting? Do you feel light headed or anything?

In terms of your race pace on the day, I would seriously advise that you do NOT set yourself a time to achieve. You'll only end up putting yourself under too much pressure, going off too quick, wearing yourself out and absolutely hating the last 6-8 miles because you'll be walking it. Like JMC said, there is a huge difference between 12:30 min miles and 11:30 min miles over a 26 mile distance. On shorter races, you can expect the adrenaline to push you that bit further, but in a marathon you really need all you've got and you really must reserve something for when you hit that wall and feel like you're actually dying, which will be 20-22 miles. Stick with a pace you're comfortable with and be pleased that you're actually completing a marathon. Who'd have ever thought you'd be doing that? Amazing achievement

Glad you've had some more advice on your injury JMC. I really hope the support works for you *fingers crossed* Let us know how the run goes today

Jonny69 · 14-09-2011, 13:53

w00t! Sale items in Sweatshop. Picked up a Salomon soft-shell jacket reduced by £20:

http://www.salomon.com/uk/product/xt...jacket--m.html

Really nice bit of kit with a breathable stretchy back on it. Will be good for cycling and running

jmc41 · 14-09-2011, 19:40

5k @ 25:24, not really setting any amazing records (pretty flat) but no left knee pain, yey.

Did have some issues with the support, very tight but the top part slipping down so got rather warm and had to briefly walk (which is unheard of for 3 miles) but will give 5 miles a go on Friday and see how that goes.

BBx - great time!

Random thought, was chatting to a guy from work who runs and does BMF, apparently the instructor recommends starting races fast, then slowing down when you can't continue, then finishing fast. This goes against everything I've heard, read (and experienced), but he wouldn't budge. Anyone else heard this?!

lostkat · 15-09-2011, 05:21

Personally I'd leave your watch at home, just whilst you're recovering since you're still thinking about times even though you're injured. You really don't want to pressure yourself into running faster and damaging yourself further.

Where did you get your support? I know the folks down my club don't think too much to the off-the-shelf ones you get in generic sports shops. Did you go to a specialist running shop and get it fitted? Might be worth trying another type if it's not agreeing with you.

Not sure I agree with that instructor either, not for me anyway. If I start a race too fast, I blow up and that's that. There's no recovering half way through, especially if it's a marathon. I start steady to get myself warmed up and my breathing regular and then up the pace if I feel comfortable before attempting a final kick at the end. If I'm doing a shorter race, I'll have a little run beforehand just to warm myself up so it doesn't take me so long to get into it. Doesn't matter with the longer races though as I'm only looking to better my previous time. I'm never going to win any races

jmc41 · 15-09-2011, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostkat

Personally I'd leave your watch at home, just whilst you're recovering since you're still thinking about times even though you're injured. You really don't want to pressure yourself into running faster and damaging yourself further.

Where did you get your support? I know the folks down my club don't think too much to the off-the-shelf ones you get in generic sports shops. Did you go to a specialist running shop and get it fitted? Might be worth trying another type if it's not agreeing with you.

Not sure I agree with that instructor either, not for me anyway. If I start a race too fast, I blow up and that's that. There's no recovering half way through, especially if it's a marathon. I start steady to get myself warmed up and my breathing regular and then up the pace if I feel comfortable before attempting a final kick at the end. If I'm doing a shorter race, I'll have a little run beforehand just to warm myself up so it doesn't take me so long to get into it. Doesn't matter with the longer races though as I'm only looking to better my previous time. I'm never going to win any races

I know what you mean, I'm glad I took it though as I wanted to be sure especially running with support I didn't go too fast. Okay that didn't work as for a slow run, not so much, but I actually went far too fast miles 2 and 3 at the start, (glanced .1 mile into mile 3 and was hitting over 9mph) so slowed down seriously before I did any more damage. I think if I can actually pay more attention and keep it to a slower pace rather than "this feels comfortable right now" I'll be better.

With so few runs of late my pacing it definitely getting worse!

Fitting wise it's a specialist sports shop that the doc recommended (it's the only local one); and they asked if it was for running etc... There was another support that seemed to aid around flex-ing but I guess the best approach is to go back Saturday and see what they say. There was definitely someone there who knew what she was doing, but she was just passing advice through this fairly clueless bloke, so not ideal.

I have exactly the same regarding starting speeds, I've started runs fast to see how far I get and it generally knackers me out, but I can go faster the last few miles if I've had a good slow run first. My best 5k time would actually be the last 3.1 miles of any number of longer runs (9-10 miles).

Thanks

BBx · 15-09-2011, 13:28

So I have 10 DAYS OMG!

Am planning this:

Friday: 7/8mile run
Sat: Nothing
Sunday: 6mile run outside

Monday: Nothing
Tuesday: 7miles
Wednesday: Nothing Carbs
Thursday: Last run how many do you think? 6?
Friday: Nothing
Saturday: Carbs
Sunday: RACE DAY!!!

Drinks: I think I will only sip water, those fizzy drinks bloat me and make me feel zzzzzzz

Any tips would be good

BB x

jmc41 · 15-09-2011, 13:49

The only tip I can think of it the Sunday before (this one I guess) do the race morning itself, just less distance.

So if the race is 9:30 like mine, get up 6am, eat cereal or whatever is normal for 6:30am, then warm up 9:15am and start 9:30am or whatever.

I can't speak from experience, but that's what I've heard works well, it makes sense and is my current plan. It might be easier for you but I normally run after work or if on hols late morning so not used to getting up and going.

My personal taper will depend upon if my knee(s) are working, but I was thinking last run Wed or maybe Thurs but not more than 5 miles? Slow, like 1.5-2 mins under race pace just to keep stuff flowing but not risking any kind of injury of soreness.

I've never taken on liquids during a run. I'd again go for whatever is normal though, and avoid the first overcrowded tables!

Good luck! Do you have a goal of 2h or so or just "finish"?

12-09-2011, 13:52	#1161
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	Well I went to see the doc, unfortunately the doc that used to be medic for the England cricket team was unavailable for various reasons so had to make do. It's the lateral ligement apparently, which is quite hard to injure, the medial is more common. Not sure if that's good or bad as I've not had a chance to google yet, but she seemed to think I could get a support and run, but to keep the distance below 5 miles and not start until Wednesday. So I got a open knee support and will give it a go with a short distance on the flattest ground around, I have a route that won't take me more than a mile from home so will see what happens. It feels pretty much okay now as it did yesterday, but then it did Friday, if it starts more than twinging I'll stop right away. Pete: I'm not really sure you should be throwing up after every long run? I've felt pretty bad on a few runs (normally dehydration) but never actually been sick. I do like sticking my head into a sink full of cold water after anything substantial which seems to help. Are you taking on small amounts of water, I've never found the need to drink on runs, but don't normally go over 2h as I'm not (yet?!) marathon training. [Edit] From what I've read (having never done a race) your ERP should be a minute slower than planned, so if you're doing 12:30 training you should aim for 11:30 race day, that sounds like a massive difference to me on anything above 10k though. Another thing I read is that the distance tends to be more unless you are able to follow the exact path, so I'd bank on it being more ilke 26.5 or slightly more. Again, just what I've read possibly lostkat with a GPS watch has some experience? Last edited by jmc41; 12-09-2011 at 13:54.

13-09-2011, 08:21	#1163
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	Woop! That's big distance BB! __________________

14-09-2011, 13:53	#1165
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	w00t! Sale items in Sweatshop. Picked up a Salomon soft-shell jacket reduced by £20: http://www.salomon.com/uk/product/xt...jacket--m.html Really nice bit of kit with a breathable stretchy back on it. Will be good for cycling and running __________________

15-09-2011, 05:21	#1167
lostkat Good Cat Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,550	Personally I'd leave your watch at home, just whilst you're recovering since you're still thinking about times even though you're injured. You really don't want to pressure yourself into running faster and damaging yourself further. Where did you get your support? I know the folks down my club don't think too much to the off-the-shelf ones you get in generic sports shops. Did you go to a specialist running shop and get it fitted? Might be worth trying another type if it's not agreeing with you. Not sure I agree with that instructor either, not for me anyway. If I start a race too fast, I blow up and that's that. There's no recovering half way through, especially if it's a marathon. I start steady to get myself warmed up and my breathing regular and then up the pace if I feel comfortable before attempting a final kick at the end. If I'm doing a shorter race, I'll have a little run beforehand just to warm myself up so it doesn't take me so long to get into it. Doesn't matter with the longer races though as I'm only looking to better my previous time. I'm never going to win any races __________________ Oooooh Cecil, what have you done?

12-09-2011, 23:40	#1162
BBx Reverse SuBo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London Posts: 8,673	10miles 1hr 33mins 38secs BB x

14-09-2011, 19:40	#1166
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	5k @ 25:24, not really setting any amazing records (pretty flat) but no left knee pain, yey. Did have some issues with the support, very tight but the top part slipping down so got rather warm and had to briefly walk (which is unheard of for 3 miles) but will give 5 miles a go on Friday and see how that goes. BBx - great time! Random thought, was chatting to a guy from work who runs and does BMF, apparently the instructor recommends starting races fast, then slowing down when you can't continue, then finishing fast. This goes against everything I've heard, read (and experienced), but he wouldn't budge. Anyone else heard this?!

15-09-2011, 13:28	#1169
BBx Reverse SuBo Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London Posts: 8,673	So I have 10 DAYS OMG! Am planning this: Friday: 7/8mile run Sat: Nothing Sunday: 6mile run outside Monday: Nothing Tuesday: 7miles Wednesday: Nothing Carbs Thursday: Last run how many do you think? 6? Friday: Nothing Saturday: Carbs Sunday: RACE DAY!!! Drinks: I think I will only sip water, those fizzy drinks bloat me and make me feel zzzzzzz Any tips would be good BB x

15-09-2011, 13:49	#1170
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	The only tip I can think of it the Sunday before (this one I guess) do the race morning itself, just less distance. So if the race is 9:30 like mine, get up 6am, eat cereal or whatever is normal for 6:30am, then warm up 9:15am and start 9:30am or whatever. I can't speak from experience, but that's what I've heard works well, it makes sense and is my current plan. It might be easier for you but I normally run after work or if on hols late morning so not used to getting up and going. My personal taper will depend upon if my knee(s) are working, but I was thinking last run Wed or maybe Thurs but not more than 5 miles? Slow, like 1.5-2 mins under race pace just to keep stuff flowing but not risking any kind of injury of soreness. I've never taken on liquids during a run. I'd again go for whatever is normal though, and avoid the first overcrowded tables! Good luck! Do you have a goal of 2h or so or just "finish"?