Camera Help

Matblack · 16-11-2006, 12:59

We currently have a Canon A80 which I like a lot but which is becoming a little battered and has some issues with lower lighting conditions and isn't particularly responsive. The LCD is a little small too.

We are likely to go on a nice holiday next year and I would like to be able to take good shots and have a decent zoom either optical or a decent pixel count so I can zoom digitally later without losing too much quality(does that work?).

I like a larger camera, its the reason I chose the A80, it has a hand grip and doesn't get lost in my hands, I shoot mostly in AUTO mode and rarely switch to the half manual or full manual modes or change the ISO setting, I do understand what shutter speed does and had a little play recently at a funfair to get some tracing effects but thats about it.

I'm thinking Christmas might be a good time to change, it would be in time to get used to a new camera before we went away. I am certainly not a prosumer or a keen amatuer and I supose I should be in the market for a point and shoot but the Digtal Rebel XT apeals to the geek in me.

I like Canon and I've never had any issues with them so thats my first point of call, I've looked at the S3 IS which looks great with a 12x zoom and generally good reviews, the new G7 is also getting some very good reviews but I'm just not sure. I'll probably go and hold a DSLR and get a geek-on and buy one but this may not be and to be honest proabably isn't the best choice.

Any ideas?

MB

Mark · 16-11-2006, 13:35

If you're prepared to go elsewhere from Canon, and you like the S3 IS. Have a look at the Sony DSC-H5. Similar specs to the S3, but 1MP more (I believe) and a bigger screen. Mejinks has one and I'm in the market when I can afford (had a play with one and like it).

petemc · 16-11-2006, 13:35

Its basically the choice between a point and shoot or a DSLR money pit. No P&S will have the image quality or noise handling of a DSLR, but it will have the one off price, it'll be smaller and easier to carry, and it will also give you nice images from the start. DSLR's are known to have slightly flat looking images compared to P&S's because they know people will be working on them in Photoshop.

DSLR...

+ Better image quality
+ Better noise handling
+ Great range of lenses for any type of photography
+ More manly size, if you get a 10/20/30D not a 300/350/400D
+ Quicker auto focus and image buffer
+ What you see is what you get. You see through the lens which is brilliant.
+ Instant startup time

- Bukly, lots of extra kit to carry. Can never just go out with 1 lens
- Expensive. Constant money pit. "Just one more lens darling?"
- Get told off for being a terrorist

P&S...

+ Small, compact, light. Great to travel with
+ One decent range lens. Can be from about 28mm to 400mm.
+ Cheap. Pay the store price and you're done.

- Image quality and noise handling isn't upto DSLR standards
- Fixed lens. If you want more you have to buy a new cam
- Slowish buffer / autofocus

The Digital Rebel XTi DSLR Turbo is the American name. For some reason they have to brand theirs. Its just a 400D here

The G7 has a range of about 35mm to 210mm. Decent enough range. The guy on Luminous Landscape loved it and bought one. The Canon Powershot S3 IS has an even greater range. I think it goes to about 400mm.

Prices.

Canon S3 = £400 for 36mm to 400mm
Canon G7 = £450 for 35mm to 210mm

Canon 400D = £500 for 18mm to 55mm
Sigma 70-300 = £150ish for 70-300mm - its not *that* good a lens
Canon 100-400 L = £1000 for 100mm to 400mm. Brilliant lens. Rather big, 1 foot long extended.

Also the Panasonic range are great as they have Leica lenses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Indecisive

If you're prepared to go elsewhere from Canon, and you like the S3 IS. Have a look at the Sony DSC-H5. Similar specs to the S3, but 1MP more (I believe) and a bigger screen. Mejinks has one and I'm in the market when I can afford (had a play with one and like it).

Quote:

Compared to the most obvious competitors - the Canon S3 IS and Panasonic DMC-FZ7 - the Sony H5 scores highly in handling, features, overall image quality and ease of use, and only really falls short in a couple of areas; burst mode, focus speed in low light (specifically at the long end of the zoom), and the purple fringing. The Canon S3IS wins hands-down when it coes to movies, the FZ7's lens and superior image stabilization means that at lower ISO settings it still, just, rules the roost when it comes to edge-to-edge sharpness, but the H5 offers a very attractive overall package that handles better than either, and - if that's what you like in a camera - has that nice big screen to boot.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh5/page15.asp

mejinks · 16-11-2006, 18:09

The purple fringing they mention I had to manually force to get any sign of it. By that, I mean bright sunlight behind a dark shadowy scene, like in front of a garage, just ever so slightly around the edges of the garage wall.

If you want some samples of pictures I took in P&S mode, let me know.

I think its a good camera, but as it only has 2 batteries, always carry another set.

To be fair to the camera, I found taking photos of the fireworks this year fairly easy. I haven't used a camera that handles low light as well as the H5, but then im no pro.

I have not only read the reviews on dpreview, but I looked at the forum comments comparing the S3 and the H5 and most people seem to plum for the H5. I got a telephoto lense off the bay of E and its the best thing I bought. The only thing I hate about the H5 is that you have to buy a seperate charger and its not a simple affair using the camera on mains power either.

Matblack · 21-11-2006, 13:42

Thanks chaps, theres some really useful info there

I've also seen the Fujifilm Finepix S9600 which seems like an interesting compromise between dSLR and compact and has a manual zoom action which appeals more than the slow powered zoom.

I will have to go and find time to have a look and see which ones I like the feel of

MB

Mark · 21-11-2006, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matblack

I will have to go and find time to have a look and see which ones I like the feel of

Best way tbh. I don't think my local Jessops has caught on to that trick yet.

Flibster · 21-11-2006, 21:59

The S9600 is a minor upgrade from the S9500 *shock horror*

Got the S9500 here and got some lovely shots from it. Some have been used by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust and I've sold more than a few prints.

I went for it as a stopgap between the A80 and the 20D - use more as a P&S rather than a dslr.

As my 20d failed after 149 shots *not happy* and they couldn't source a replacement and I didn't want it repaired I've not just got the A80 and S9500

4gb card gives around 900 shots on jpeg, 210 on raw.

Set of 4 2500mah AA batteries is around 400 shots on jpeg. Yet to run flat a set while using raw.

Noise is fine up to iso200, bareable and sortable on 400, 800 is a little messy and 1600 is pretty bad.

Internal flash is ok, but can use a basic external flash very easily.

The biggest usefull feature for me is the ring control for the zoom. It's great.

Zoom in and out so quickly.

Can also use XD or Compact flash - which as you've got an A80 you should have some of.

If you want some full size images to take a look at let me know.

They are on the big size though. 4.5mb jpeg, 18.5mb raw and 105mb tiff

I picked the S9500 for many reasons, image quality, zoom usefullness, the way it felt to use, AA battery use, compact flash, ability to use an external flash. Don't regret buying it the slightest. Goes with me everywhere.

Can't say the same for the 20d though.

Simon/~Flibscrooge

Matblack · 29-11-2006, 20:40

OK, I had a look at the Panasonic DMC-FZ7 today which I liked, its a small camera (compared to the Fuji) but its feels like a mini SLR.

However I also like the look of the DMC-FZ30 which is bigger but has 8 as opposed to 6 Mp and will shoot in RAW and also has a manual focus ring

I still like the Fuji's they are larger (more like dSLR size) and the don't have Image Stabilization which when you are using the zoom might be an issue?

The nice thing is I am learning a lot more about camera

Reading about RAW led me to reading about HDR which I think looks amazing, interestingly I found a free piece of software which will control my Canon through USB and get it to take a series of pics which can then be used for HDR

so I might have to give that a go. I'd like to be able to do that HDR effect but it seems like you have to take lots of exposures at different levels and I'm not sure how I'd get a camera to do that without automation like linking it to a laptop and using this software.

So I'm not a lot further towards deciding, I'm erring towards the more expensive Panasonic because of the IS and the good zoom but the Fuji has a better wide angle :/

MB

Mondo · 29-11-2006, 20:56

What you are describing is call bracketing exposure, there is often a button on the camera that does that. It'll take a series of pictures, usually 3. 1 at -1, then 0 and then +1 stop. So you get 3 photos, one is under exposed by 1 stop, then 1 at normal, and 1 is overexposed at 1 stop. Using photomatix you put them 3 in and generate a HDR. That is generally what is a TRUE HDR, rather than using a RAW image. But to bracketing exposure you will need a still subject and even a tripod. Because if you start to move or the subjects move, the 3 images will be slightly different. Hence where I think RAW has the edge because it is 1 photo then split into 3.

petemc · 29-11-2006, 21:31

Yeah having RAW would be beneficial for HDR. You don't need the software, just a tripod. My hdr guide tells all

The major issue with RAW is that on a DSLR at ISO100 the noise can be an issue sometimes. On a digital compact, which doesn't have as good noise handling, it can be a real pain.

16-11-2006, 12:59	#1
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	Camera Help We currently have a Canon A80 which I like a lot but which is becoming a little battered and has some issues with lower lighting conditions and isn't particularly responsive. The LCD is a little small too. We are likely to go on a nice holiday next year and I would like to be able to take good shots and have a decent zoom either optical or a decent pixel count so I can zoom digitally later without losing too much quality(does that work?). I like a larger camera, its the reason I chose the A80, it has a hand grip and doesn't get lost in my hands, I shoot mostly in AUTO mode and rarely switch to the half manual or full manual modes or change the ISO setting, I do understand what shutter speed does and had a little play recently at a funfair to get some tracing effects but thats about it. I'm thinking Christmas might be a good time to change, it would be in time to get used to a new camera before we went away. I am certainly not a prosumer or a keen amatuer and I supose I should be in the market for a point and shoot but the Digtal Rebel XT apeals to the geek in me. I like Canon and I've never had any issues with them so thats my first point of call, I've looked at the S3 IS which looks great with a 12x zoom and generally good reviews, the new G7 is also getting some very good reviews but I'm just not sure. I'll probably go and hold a DSLR and get a geek-on and buy one but this may not be and to be honest proabably isn't the best choice. Any ideas? MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

21-11-2006, 13:42	#5
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	Thanks chaps, theres some really useful info there I've also seen the Fujifilm Finepix S9600 which seems like an interesting compromise between dSLR and compact and has a manual zoom action which appeals more than the slow powered zoom. I will have to go and find time to have a look and see which ones I like the feel of MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

21-11-2006, 21:59	#7
Flibster Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,388	The S9600 is a minor upgrade from the S9500 shock horror Got the S9500 here and got some lovely shots from it. Some have been used by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust and I've sold more than a few prints. I went for it as a stopgap between the A80 and the 20D - use more as a P&S rather than a dslr. As my 20d failed after 149 shots not happy and they couldn't source a replacement and I didn't want it repaired I've not just got the A80 and S9500 4gb card gives around 900 shots on jpeg, 210 on raw. Set of 4 2500mah AA batteries is around 400 shots on jpeg. Yet to run flat a set while using raw. Noise is fine up to iso200, bareable and sortable on 400, 800 is a little messy and 1600 is pretty bad. Internal flash is ok, but can use a basic external flash very easily. The biggest usefull feature for me is the ring control for the zoom. It's great. Zoom in and out so quickly. Can also use XD or Compact flash - which as you've got an A80 you should have some of. If you want some full size images to take a look at let me know. They are on the big size though. 4.5mb jpeg, 18.5mb raw and 105mb tiff I picked the S9500 for many reasons, image quality, zoom usefullness, the way it felt to use, AA battery use, compact flash, ability to use an external flash. Don't regret buying it the slightest. Goes with me everywhere. Can't say the same for the 20d though. Simon/~Flibscrooge __________________

29-11-2006, 20:40	#8
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	OK, I had a look at the Panasonic DMC-FZ7 today which I liked, its a small camera (compared to the Fuji) but its feels like a mini SLR. However I also like the look of the DMC-FZ30 which is bigger but has 8 as opposed to 6 Mp and will shoot in RAW and also has a manual focus ring I still like the Fuji's they are larger (more like dSLR size) and the don't have Image Stabilization which when you are using the zoom might be an issue? The nice thing is I am learning a lot more about camera Reading about RAW led me to reading about HDR which I think looks amazing, interestingly I found a free piece of software which will control my Canon through USB and get it to take a series of pics which can then be used for HDR so I might have to give that a go. I'd like to be able to do that HDR effect but it seems like you have to take lots of exposures at different levels and I'm not sure how I'd get a camera to do that without automation like linking it to a laptop and using this software. So I'm not a lot further towards deciding, I'm erring towards the more expensive Panasonic because of the IS and the good zoom but the Fuji has a better wide angle :/ MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

29-11-2006, 20:56	#9
Mondo Absinthe Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,174	What you are describing is call bracketing exposure, there is often a button on the camera that does that. It'll take a series of pictures, usually 3. 1 at -1, then 0 and then +1 stop. So you get 3 photos, one is under exposed by 1 stop, then 1 at normal, and 1 is overexposed at 1 stop. Using photomatix you put them 3 in and generate a HDR. That is generally what is a TRUE HDR, rather than using a RAW image. But to bracketing exposure you will need a still subject and even a tripod. Because if you start to move or the subjects move, the 3 images will be slightly different. Hence where I think RAW has the edge because it is 1 photo then split into 3. __________________ My Website / MSN / Email / Flickr / Blog

16-11-2006, 13:35	#2
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	If you're prepared to go elsewhere from Canon, and you like the S3 IS. Have a look at the Sony DSC-H5. Similar specs to the S3, but 1MP more (I believe) and a bigger screen. Mejinks has one and I'm in the market when I can afford (had a play with one and like it).

16-11-2006, 18:09	#4
mejinks Magners Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,865	The purple fringing they mention I had to manually force to get any sign of it. By that, I mean bright sunlight behind a dark shadowy scene, like in front of a garage, just ever so slightly around the edges of the garage wall. If you want some samples of pictures I took in P&S mode, let me know. I think its a good camera, but as it only has 2 batteries, always carry another set. To be fair to the camera, I found taking photos of the fireworks this year fairly easy. I haven't used a camera that handles low light as well as the H5, but then im no pro. I have not only read the reviews on dpreview, but I looked at the forum comments comparing the S3 and the H5 and most people seem to plum for the H5. I got a telephoto lense off the bay of E and its the best thing I bought. The only thing I hate about the H5 is that you have to buy a seperate charger and its not a simple affair using the camera on mains power either.

29-11-2006, 21:31	#10
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	Yeah having RAW would be beneficial for HDR. You don't need the software, just a tripod. My hdr guide tells all The major issue with RAW is that on a DSLR at ISO100 the noise can be an issue sometimes. On a digital compact, which doesn't have as good noise handling, it can be a real pain.