Prison - Page 2

Feek · 31-10-2007, 09:31

omg, my first double post!

Treefrog · 31-10-2007, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feek

omg, my first double post!

Oh the irony, given your sig!

Del Lardo · 31-10-2007, 13:14

I posted the article really as a warning to fellow enthusiastic drivers to illustrate how easily a fun blast can go horribly wrong but having read through the PH thread a couple of times I now have a few thoughts...

I am pretty much assuming that 10pence is telling the truth in his posts, given how freely he talks about prison and how readily he admits the accident was his fault I see no reason to think that he would need to lie in other posts.

I do not think that the charge of Dangerous driving was a fair one as it was obtained using what is in my opinion flawed evidence. The charge of Careless driving would have been a fair one as this is what the accident investigation evidence can prove.
The 3 reasons that I believe that 10pence pled guilty to the charge were:
1. The fact that if he pled not guilty it would have been a jury trial with the potential for a much longer sentence. A year after the accident the jury would have seen the accused with not a scratch on him and the biker (victim) with long term injuries. This would have immediately made them hostile towards the defendant.
2. The evidence from the Honda forum where he claimed to be a driving God and claims to frequently drive too fast. The driving god comments 10pence claims were flippant and we know how internet forum posts can often not reflect real life. I would not take anything posted on an internet forum seriously but I would not expect a jury of my peers to do the same, infact I would expect them to do the opposite. The run he had been on that day had also been arranged through the website and the fact that he was running with 4 other very similar cars would certainly evoke images of "Boy racers" and it's negative conotations.
3. The witness statements from the 4 cars he had overtaken prior to the accident and statement from one witness that he had overtaken his on a blind bend (a claim that 10pence refutes). Now the fundemental issue that I have with this is that I do not think that the perception of someones driving by the general public should have any weight or even be allowed to heard in a court of law. They should only be allowed to state facts rather than emotive statements like "he overtook me like a bat out of hell with his engine screaming". No ****! When I overtake I use a much engine power as I need to get past as quickly as possible. It's called minimising Time Exposed to Danger and given the engine characteristics of the ITR and it's VTEC engine he would have been using the upper rev range.

I do not believe that the biker is totally blameless in this accident. To put it simply I think that he was travelling too fast to stop when he came across a very slow moving vehicle blocking his path and he been punished far more harshly than he deserves with his injuries.

The ultimate blame does lie with the car driver as if he had not lost control his car would not have been sitting in the middle of the road and put quite simply IMO this is careless driving.

Now one of the primary reasons that this case has made me think is that I drive a car that is both louder and will be perceived as sportier by most people. Now there is a road between Cambridge and Burwell that I must have driven 100s of times and I know very well. I often come up behind 40mph trains of traffic and given the performance of my Elise and my knowledge of the road I can perform overtaking manouvers that I know are safe but could be perceived by other road users as agressive. Let me give an example, I come up behind 4 cars moving at 40mph in a 60mph zone, I check that there is nothing coming and use my cars performance to overtake all four cars taking my speed up to 80mph and making my car sound very loud as a result of the sports exhaust. I pull back onto my side of the road and am soon out of sight despite slowing down to 60mph. 2 miles down the road someone pulling out of a side road does not look properly and I plow into the side of them killing the driver. The four cars I had overtaken arrive on the scene a couple of minutes later and are later questioned by the Police. I would put money on at least two of them telling the Police I had been driving in a dangerous manner and the initial police assumption would be that I had been speeding which is why I hit the person pulling out in front of me.

If nothing else this story has made me think about not only whether my driving is safe but how it will be perceived by others.

Feek · 31-10-2007, 13:29

I don't disagree with anything you've said. And I'll try not to double post again.

Piggymon · 31-10-2007, 20:41

10 pence short is the dude involved ?? Good god !

Know him off the CTR forums ... was a bit of a tosspot on there :/

31-10-2007, 09:31	#11
Feek ex SAS Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: JO01ou Posts: 10,062	omg, my first double post! __________________

31-10-2007, 13:29	#14
Feek ex SAS Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: JO01ou Posts: 10,062	I don't disagree with anything you've said. And I'll try not to double post again. __________________

31-10-2007, 20:41	#15
Piggymon Lara Croft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: PigmoPad - Braintree Essex Posts: 8,604	10 pence short is the dude involved ?? Good god ! Know him off the CTR forums ... was a bit of a tosspot on there :/ __________________ BF% 28/08/08 - 21%

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31-10-2007, 13:14	#13
Del Lardo Absinthe Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cambridge Posts: 2,539	I posted the article really as a warning to fellow enthusiastic drivers to illustrate how easily a fun blast can go horribly wrong but having read through the PH thread a couple of times I now have a few thoughts... I am pretty much assuming that 10pence is telling the truth in his posts, given how freely he talks about prison and how readily he admits the accident was his fault I see no reason to think that he would need to lie in other posts. I do not think that the charge of Dangerous driving was a fair one as it was obtained using what is in my opinion flawed evidence. The charge of Careless driving would have been a fair one as this is what the accident investigation evidence can prove. The 3 reasons that I believe that 10pence pled guilty to the charge were: 1. The fact that if he pled not guilty it would have been a jury trial with the potential for a much longer sentence. A year after the accident the jury would have seen the accused with not a scratch on him and the biker (victim) with long term injuries. This would have immediately made them hostile towards the defendant. 2. The evidence from the Honda forum where he claimed to be a driving God and claims to frequently drive too fast. The driving god comments 10pence claims were flippant and we know how internet forum posts can often not reflect real life. I would not take anything posted on an internet forum seriously but I would not expect a jury of my peers to do the same, infact I would expect them to do the opposite. The run he had been on that day had also been arranged through the website and the fact that he was running with 4 other very similar cars would certainly evoke images of "Boy racers" and it's negative conotations. 3. The witness statements from the 4 cars he had overtaken prior to the accident and statement from one witness that he had overtaken his on a blind bend (a claim that 10pence refutes). Now the fundemental issue that I have with this is that I do not think that the perception of someones driving by the general public should have any weight or even be allowed to heard in a court of law. They should only be allowed to state facts rather than emotive statements like "he overtook me like a bat out of hell with his engine screaming". No ****! When I overtake I use a much engine power as I need to get past as quickly as possible. It's called minimising Time Exposed to Danger and given the engine characteristics of the ITR and it's VTEC engine he would have been using the upper rev range. I do not believe that the biker is totally blameless in this accident. To put it simply I think that he was travelling too fast to stop when he came across a very slow moving vehicle blocking his path and he been punished far more harshly than he deserves with his injuries. The ultimate blame does lie with the car driver as if he had not lost control his car would not have been sitting in the middle of the road and put quite simply IMO this is careless driving. Now one of the primary reasons that this case has made me think is that I drive a car that is both louder and will be perceived as sportier by most people. Now there is a road between Cambridge and Burwell that I must have driven 100s of times and I know very well. I often come up behind 40mph trains of traffic and given the performance of my Elise and my knowledge of the road I can perform overtaking manouvers that I know are safe but could be perceived by other road users as agressive. Let me give an example, I come up behind 4 cars moving at 40mph in a 60mph zone, I check that there is nothing coming and use my cars performance to overtake all four cars taking my speed up to 80mph and making my car sound very loud as a result of the sports exhaust. I pull back onto my side of the road and am soon out of sight despite slowing down to 60mph. 2 miles down the road someone pulling out of a side road does not look properly and I plow into the side of them killing the driver. The four cars I had overtaken arrive on the scene a couple of minutes later and are later questioned by the Police. I would put money on at least two of them telling the Police I had been driving in a dangerous manner and the initial police assumption would be that I had been speeding which is why I hit the person pulling out in front of me. If nothing else this story has made me think about not only whether my driving is safe but how it will be perceived by others.