Goose have you been flying at Heathrow today? - Page 2

Mark · 18-01-2008, 00:14

LOL. Send that in to one of the sites that posts such things.

Will · 18-01-2008, 08:10

Well from the reports I'd say as much as I hate BA with a passion beyond comparison the crews (stewards/stewardesses) appear to have done a really good job with the evacuation and safety of the passengers. Obviously credit due to the pilots who after experiencing what appears to be a power cut (allegedly) at the last minute when you need all the power you can get did remarkably well - but after all that's what they're paid for, and he definitely earned his money that day.

When I was learning to fly I never had issues with landings, the take off was the most nerve racking time - it's when you push the plane to it's limits i.e. no reserves of power and if something goes wrong you have nothing to fall back on, at least landing you can glide relatively well, but if you **** up and you ain't got no power (I know it's a double neg) you're ****ed

Goose · 18-01-2008, 10:34

^ this man speaks the truth. Landings > take-offs.

Mark · 18-01-2008, 12:03

Aye, I'd agree with that too. I remember it well from my ride on Concorde which had a particularly high take-off and landing speed. There were only two times I really got drilled back into my seat - take-off and when using the reversers to stop after touching down.

Del Lardo · 18-01-2008, 15:31

Goose, can you comment on the glide path into Heathrow? Someone on another forum was saying that due to the angle of decent (or something) a plane could glide over London with no power and still land.

Glad I'm flying TAP today, all BA flights from Lisbon have been cancelled.

Mark · 18-01-2008, 15:48

Pre-emptive strike...

Did some research on this yesterday. Yes, this is possible thanks to various safety measures. Under the right conditions and with sufficient early warning a jet can glide for 100+ miles and land unpowered.

One example among several:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

The issue here seems to have been just how late the problem, whatever it was, happened.

PS - I'd be interested in your experiences with TAP. Got a flight booked with them in a few months.

Goose · 18-01-2008, 15:48

Bearing in mind I fly *ickle* planes and work in IT, all I can do is comment using the basic system taught to me (plus my experience in simulators).

If they'd lost all engines, I *think* the rate of decent in a glide is about 3,500 to 4,500 feet per minute? That's a lot, but I think it still gets you to Heathrow if you are in their airspace. From 35,000 feet, a rate of 4,500 feet lets you travel 8-9 minutes, reaching about 40 miles (this is man-miles btw, not girly-miles) whilst gliding.

Another important thing to remember is there are 2 pilots. One flies, the other goes through the engine restart checks. There have been several incidents in the past where the plane has lost all engines and glided onto a runway.

Gliding onto a runway is tricky but doable. You just need to come in at a steeper angle of decent (something these BA guys didn't have the option to do, hence they came in short) and play the game of "will the next stage of flaps have a positive or negative effect".

Edit: Just looked at Mark's link, having empty fuel tanks and not being on a slow approach is going to help.

Del Lardo · 18-01-2008, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

PS - I'd be interested in your experiences with TAP. Got a flight booked with them in a few months.

Flown with them 1-2 times a month for the last year and they are generally very good. I use them in preference to BA on the same route.

Only had a couple of delayed flights from Lisbon and they were due to aircraft being delayed at Heathrow. You can pretty much guarantee one top totty airstewardess per flight, often two.

The inflight food is pretty poor as it's just a dodgy hot sandwich which smells funny but they're always happy to give me a few beers when I ask nicely.

Most importantly for me, as it's often an early morning flight and I haven't slept the night before, is that I can sleep in their seats. They look **** but are somehow more comfortable than BA.

Mark · 18-01-2008, 16:02

Sounds good enough then. Wish I could sleep in airline seats. Never have been able to, which is a PITA on a long-haul.

18-01-2008, 08:10	#12
Will BBx woz 'ere :P Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2,147,487,208	Well from the reports I'd say as much as I hate BA with a passion beyond comparison the crews (stewards/stewardesses) appear to have done a really good job with the evacuation and safety of the passengers. Obviously credit due to the pilots who after experiencing what appears to be a power cut (allegedly) at the last minute when you need all the power you can get did remarkably well - but after all that's what they're paid for, and he definitely earned his money that day. When I was learning to fly I never had issues with landings, the take off was the most nerve racking time - it's when you push the plane to it's limits i.e. no reserves of power and if something goes wrong you have nothing to fall back on, at least landing you can glide relatively well, but if you ** up and you ain't got no power (I know it's a double neg) you're ed __________________ No No!**

18-01-2008, 10:34	#13
Goose The list is long, but distinguished Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Århus, Denmark Posts: 1,643	^ this man speaks the truth. Landings > take-offs. __________________

18-01-2008, 15:48	#16
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Pre-emptive strike... Did some research on this yesterday. Yes, this is possible thanks to various safety measures. Under the right conditions and with sufficient early warning a jet can glide for 100+ miles and land unpowered. One example among several: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236 The issue here seems to have been just how late the problem, whatever it was, happened. PS - I'd be interested in your experiences with TAP. Got a flight booked with them in a few months. Last edited by Mark; 18-01-2008 at 15:51.

18-01-2008, 15:48	#17
Goose The list is long, but distinguished Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Århus, Denmark Posts: 1,643	Bearing in mind I fly ickle planes and work in IT, all I can do is comment using the basic system taught to me (plus my experience in simulators). If they'd lost all engines, I think the rate of decent in a glide is about 3,500 to 4,500 feet per minute? That's a lot, but I think it still gets you to Heathrow if you are in their airspace. From 35,000 feet, a rate of 4,500 feet lets you travel 8-9 minutes, reaching about 40 miles (this is man-miles btw, not girly-miles) whilst gliding. Another important thing to remember is there are 2 pilots. One flies, the other goes through the engine restart checks. There have been several incidents in the past where the plane has lost all engines and glided onto a runway. Gliding onto a runway is tricky but doable. You just need to come in at a steeper angle of decent (something these BA guys didn't have the option to do, hence they came in short) and play the game of "will the next stage of flaps have a positive or negative effect". Edit: Just looked at Mark's link, having empty fuel tanks and not being on a slow approach is going to help. __________________

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18-01-2008, 00:14	#11
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	LOL. Send that in to one of the sites that posts such things.

18-01-2008, 12:03	#14
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Aye, I'd agree with that too. I remember it well from my ride on Concorde which had a particularly high take-off and landing speed. There were only two times I really got drilled back into my seat - take-off and when using the reversers to stop after touching down.

18-01-2008, 15:31	#15
Del Lardo Absinthe Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cambridge Posts: 2,539	Goose, can you comment on the glide path into Heathrow? Someone on another forum was saying that due to the angle of decent (or something) a plane could glide over London with no power and still land. Glad I'm flying TAP today, all BA flights from Lisbon have been cancelled.

18-01-2008, 16:02	#19
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Sounds good enough then. Wish I could sleep in airline seats. Never have been able to, which is a PITA on a long-haul.