360 achievement discussion/need some help for my postgrad work - Page 2

Haly · 08-01-2007, 15:40

Nope perfectly clear thanks

Just going to use various people's comments as evidence to back up my ideas about things.
There's shockingly little research done on it.

Davey_Pitch · 08-01-2007, 16:15

Right, if a long answer is what you want, a long answer is what I'll try to provide.

I personally believe the Xbox 360 achievement point system is one of the most useful additions to gaming in a very long time. For a long time in gaming the only rewards we got for finishing a game (besides the actual sense of accomplishment if it was a difficult game) were perhaps some bonus outfits for a character, perhaps a new weapon or two, or some bonus artwork or music. Every now and then a game would offer additional levels or game modes for finishing levels. The one game that instantly springs to mind is Manhunt, which would unlock bonus levels if you finished 4 consecutive levels with a 4 star or higher rating (and the bonus levels were fun too).

Now, with the achievement system, we have another reward for doing well in games. Obviously, the point system gives us nothing in terms of in-game extras, but I feel that getting a high achievement score in a game means that I've put a good bit of effort into that game to achieve it (with the exception of some sports games where you can get 1000 in about 30 mins - NHL 2k6 and NBA 2k6 being prime examples of this).

I like the games where 1000 is fairly difficult to get, but achievable all the same. You look at a lot of players' profiles and you'll see 1000/1000 on games like the aforementioned sports games, as well as simpler games like Cars, Open Season and the like. However, you'll find very very few people have over say 600/1000 on games like Dead Rising, which actually require you to put in a lot of effort and thought to get that high. Getting 1000 points in a game like that means that you've put in a ton of effort, as there is no way to cheat or sim your way through it in order to boost your gamerscore.

Has the achievement point system changed the way I play games? Yes, I would say so. I will still put in a lot of time into games I love, irrespective of whether I've already got the full points, or whether playing the game in the way I love will earn me any more (for example PES6, I may never bother getting all of the different league achievements as I prefer playing as Real Madrid and playing online). The achievement system has certainly meant I always try to get a little bit more out of games though. For example, before I traded in Top Spin 2 I played through and beat every character in exhibition matches to get 2 extra achievements, and even though I think King Kong sucks major ass (poor level design, bad gameplay mechanics, uninspiring gameplay and weapons), I'll still likely play through it to completion as I know doing so will give me 1000 points. There will be games that I just leave though. I never got to grips with Dead or Alive 4, so even though I had a measly 10 points, I traded it in as I knew I'd never like it enough to put in the time required to get the achievement points. Getting a decent score in games like Condemned and King Kong is the reason I still own them even though they'd be useful to trade in for other games I fancy playing. The achievement system is effectively making me get the monies worth from the games.

Has it made me more competitive? Probably not, I'm competitive enough, but I do like comparing my score to others, and seeing what games I score better than them, and vice versa. Seeing people with high scores in games that I own often makes me want to play those games as the points are obviously achievable. There are also people on my friends list (like Creature) who I would like to try and catch, though as he's a slacking student that probably won't ever happen. Still, it's a target for me.

Has it made me play more games? Yes, I would say so, in two different ways. One: now I rent games I do look for some of the easier 1000 point games so I can boost my score, I do admit to being guilty of that. Two: I look at games that interest me and see what the achievements are like. Some games contain achievements that look really interesting in how you would achieve it (like Frank The Pimp in Dead Rising, escorting 8 female survivors at once, something not easily done), and that may make me want to play the game more. I enjoy a challenge in my games so if a game interests me and has challenging (but achievable) targets then I'll be more likely to give it a whirl.

Ramble over, for now. I've probably got a lot more thoughts in my head about it, so if you have any other questions Jen fire away as they may spark off some more rambling

Haly · 08-01-2007, 16:28

Thank you very much for a very comprehensive reply

If I have any more questions for any of you later on, I'll post them up

leowyatt · 08-01-2007, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey_Pitch

what I tried to say but more eloquently

Fortyseven · 08-01-2007, 17:55

It has changed the way I play games but not a large amount. I still will only play games if I enjoy them and will not pick up a game for an easy 1000 points. It has changed the way I play in that I will try to get the most out of the games that I do enjoy, maybe playing them after completing them or playing modes I wouldn't normally play to gain the achievements (Royal Rumbles on SVR, Activities on Saints Row after finishing the game.)
I prefer achievements that are gained while playing through the game the first time, not just for completing the levels (eg Gears of War) but doing things like conserving ammo (Call of Duty 3.) I also don't like that fact that online achievements can only be gained in ranked servers and no invtations can go to friends when in a ranked server. This is to stop people using friends to gain the achievements by letting them win but it just means that they are letting people like that ruin it for everyone else. I also hate secret achievements as I have no motivation to continually play a game to try and find out what these things are.

Haly · 11-01-2007, 17:01

Some more questions for you lot.
Do you find yourself addicted to the achievement system?
If not, what are your thoughts on this? Do you know anyone who seems addicted?

Do you think it could become addictive?

leowyatt · 11-01-2007, 17:08

Personally I am not addicted to the achievement system, I see it as an extension of my game playing experience.

Depending on the actual personality of the gamer and I could see it becoming addictive as they will purely be focused on their score. They could perceive it to be an indication of how good they are, a kinda e-penis thing

I don't know anyone who is addicted, though perhaps Creature :P

Davey_Pitch · 11-01-2007, 18:34

Am I addicted to the achievement system? No, though I do think it presents a way to extend the life of a game if some of the achievements need multiple play throughs to get (who knows if I would have gone through Dead Rising so much if I wasn't aiming for the achievements). I do know when to stop though, for example I rented Fifa World Cup 2006 with the aim of getting 1000 points, but the game is so crap compared to PES6 I got the easy 500 points and left it, I won't bother getting the difficult 500, it's not worth the time or effort.

The main person I know who seems addicted is McDaniel from The-Reviewer. He downloads his games so can get a lot of them, and I know for a fact he goes through games simply for points a lot of the time. Games that require time and effort to get maximum points (like Dead Rising) will be played for a bit and then left aside. If he enjoys himself, then fair play to him, but going solely for points would surely become a chore in the end, for me at least. I like to enjoy my gaming, and use the achievement system to help with that, rather than aiming for points and trying to enjoy myself along the way.

Haly · 12-01-2007, 18:23

Ty both

You've both been used

Just finished it at last

Just hope it's any good. My main concern is the referencing as the lecturer marking it has a thing about wanting us to use mainly journals and books, which is fair enough and I agree in many cases. But in the case of something as new as X-Box 360s, no one really wants to write about them besides games journalists which he's not so keen on :undecided:
So just have to see.

Managed to find a few 'respectable' people to reference at least.

Ty all who helped.

Haly · 29-01-2007, 16:39

No idea if anyone's interested in the results but if so have a look on http://www.halycopter.com for a PDF or http://www.halycopter.com/uni/achievement.pdf for the direct link. There's a few other essays on there that might be of interest, I apologise for any crapness

08-01-2007, 15:40	#11
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	Nope perfectly clear thanks Just going to use various people's comments as evidence to back up my ideas about things. There's shockingly little research done on it. __________________ Halycopter

08-01-2007, 16:15	#12
Davey_Pitch I iz speshul Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Liverpool Posts: 6,296	Right, if a long answer is what you want, a long answer is what I'll try to provide. I personally believe the Xbox 360 achievement point system is one of the most useful additions to gaming in a very long time. For a long time in gaming the only rewards we got for finishing a game (besides the actual sense of accomplishment if it was a difficult game) were perhaps some bonus outfits for a character, perhaps a new weapon or two, or some bonus artwork or music. Every now and then a game would offer additional levels or game modes for finishing levels. The one game that instantly springs to mind is Manhunt, which would unlock bonus levels if you finished 4 consecutive levels with a 4 star or higher rating (and the bonus levels were fun too). Now, with the achievement system, we have another reward for doing well in games. Obviously, the point system gives us nothing in terms of in-game extras, but I feel that getting a high achievement score in a game means that I've put a good bit of effort into that game to achieve it (with the exception of some sports games where you can get 1000 in about 30 mins - NHL 2k6 and NBA 2k6 being prime examples of this). I like the games where 1000 is fairly difficult to get, but achievable all the same. You look at a lot of players' profiles and you'll see 1000/1000 on games like the aforementioned sports games, as well as simpler games like Cars, Open Season and the like. However, you'll find very very few people have over say 600/1000 on games like Dead Rising, which actually require you to put in a lot of effort and thought to get that high. Getting 1000 points in a game like that means that you've put in a ton of effort, as there is no way to cheat or sim your way through it in order to boost your gamerscore. Has the achievement point system changed the way I play games? Yes, I would say so. I will still put in a lot of time into games I love, irrespective of whether I've already got the full points, or whether playing the game in the way I love will earn me any more (for example PES6, I may never bother getting all of the different league achievements as I prefer playing as Real Madrid and playing online). The achievement system has certainly meant I always try to get a little bit more out of games though. For example, before I traded in Top Spin 2 I played through and beat every character in exhibition matches to get 2 extra achievements, and even though I think King Kong sucks major ass (poor level design, bad gameplay mechanics, uninspiring gameplay and weapons), I'll still likely play through it to completion as I know doing so will give me 1000 points. There will be games that I just leave though. I never got to grips with Dead or Alive 4, so even though I had a measly 10 points, I traded it in as I knew I'd never like it enough to put in the time required to get the achievement points. Getting a decent score in games like Condemned and King Kong is the reason I still own them even though they'd be useful to trade in for other games I fancy playing. The achievement system is effectively making me get the monies worth from the games. Has it made me more competitive? Probably not, I'm competitive enough, but I do like comparing my score to others, and seeing what games I score better than them, and vice versa. Seeing people with high scores in games that I own often makes me want to play those games as the points are obviously achievable. There are also people on my friends list (like Creature) who I would like to try and catch, though as he's a slacking student that probably won't ever happen. Still, it's a target for me. Has it made me play more games? Yes, I would say so, in two different ways. One: now I rent games I do look for some of the easier 1000 point games so I can boost my score, I do admit to being guilty of that. Two: I look at games that interest me and see what the achievements are like. Some games contain achievements that look really interesting in how you would achieve it (like Frank The Pimp in Dead Rising, escorting 8 female survivors at once, something not easily done), and that may make me want to play the game more. I enjoy a challenge in my games so if a game interests me and has challenging (but achievable) targets then I'll be more likely to give it a whirl. Ramble over, for now. I've probably got a lot more thoughts in my head about it, so if you have any other questions Jen fire away as they may spark off some more rambling __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. Last edited by Davey_Pitch; 08-01-2007 at 16:45.

08-01-2007, 16:28	#13
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	Thank you very much for a very comprehensive reply If I have any more questions for any of you later on, I'll post them up __________________ Halycopter

11-01-2007, 17:01	#16
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	Some more questions for you lot. Do you find yourself addicted to the achievement system? If not, what are your thoughts on this? Do you know anyone who seems addicted? Do you think it could become addictive? __________________ Halycopter

11-01-2007, 17:08	#17
leowyatt Chef extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Infinite Loop Posts: 11,143	Personally I am not addicted to the achievement system, I see it as an extension of my game playing experience. Depending on the actual personality of the gamer and I could see it becoming addictive as they will purely be focused on their score. They could perceive it to be an indication of how good they are, a kinda e-penis thing I don't know anyone who is addicted, though perhaps Creature :P __________________ "Dr Sheldon Cooper FTW!"

08-01-2007, 17:55	#15
Fortyseven Nice weak cup of Earl Grey Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 15	It has changed the way I play games but not a large amount. I still will only play games if I enjoy them and will not pick up a game for an easy 1000 points. It has changed the way I play in that I will try to get the most out of the games that I do enjoy, maybe playing them after completing them or playing modes I wouldn't normally play to gain the achievements (Royal Rumbles on SVR, Activities on Saints Row after finishing the game.) I prefer achievements that are gained while playing through the game the first time, not just for completing the levels (eg Gears of War) but doing things like conserving ammo (Call of Duty 3.) I also don't like that fact that online achievements can only be gained in ranked servers and no invtations can go to friends when in a ranked server. This is to stop people using friends to gain the achievements by letting them win but it just means that they are letting people like that ruin it for everyone else. I also hate secret achievements as I have no motivation to continually play a game to try and find out what these things are.

11-01-2007, 18:34	#18
Davey_Pitch I iz speshul Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Liverpool Posts: 6,296	Am I addicted to the achievement system? No, though I do think it presents a way to extend the life of a game if some of the achievements need multiple play throughs to get (who knows if I would have gone through Dead Rising so much if I wasn't aiming for the achievements). I do know when to stop though, for example I rented Fifa World Cup 2006 with the aim of getting 1000 points, but the game is so crap compared to PES6 I got the easy 500 points and left it, I won't bother getting the difficult 500, it's not worth the time or effort. The main person I know who seems addicted is McDaniel from The-Reviewer. He downloads his games so can get a lot of them, and I know for a fact he goes through games simply for points a lot of the time. Games that require time and effort to get maximum points (like Dead Rising) will be played for a bit and then left aside. If he enjoys himself, then fair play to him, but going solely for points would surely become a chore in the end, for me at least. I like to enjoy my gaming, and use the achievement system to help with that, rather than aiming for points and trying to enjoy myself along the way. __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

12-01-2007, 18:23	#19
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	Ty both You've both been used Just finished it at last Just hope it's any good. My main concern is the referencing as the lecturer marking it has a thing about wanting us to use mainly journals and books, which is fair enough and I agree in many cases. But in the case of something as new as X-Box 360s, no one really wants to write about them besides games journalists which he's not so keen on :undecided: So just have to see. Managed to find a few 'respectable' people to reference at least. Ty all who helped. __________________ Halycopter

29-01-2007, 16:39	#20
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	No idea if anyone's interested in the results but if so have a look on http://www.halycopter.com for a PDF or http://www.halycopter.com/uni/achievement.pdf for the direct link. There's a few other essays on there that might be of interest, I apologise for any crapness __________________ Halycopter

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