Where have peoples manners gone to ?

[Garp]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

I've always thought the influx of foreigners have done little to aid manners, combined with the perpetuation of chavs. Foreign people, particularly those who come from poor economic climates, tend to have learned manners that are far more confrontational than your average middle-class and even working class people.

If anything I've found it to be the complete opposite. Most of the foreigners I've dealt with have been far better mannered than us Brits, which is quite appalling for what a country once infamous for its "proper" and unfailingly courteous behaviour. In particular I've found the Hungarians to be the most polite.
Blaming the foreigners is a good way to hide from the truth: Britain has gone appallingly down hill, and the fault lies at home, not elsewhere. It's easy to pick on outside targets, but if we were as good as we'd ever be, foreigners would be the embarrassed ones.

Originally Posted by Pebs

I think standards of manners in general have fallen, and this can only be down to parents I think. I'm very strict with the girls and their 'please' and 'thanks you's, if things really seem to start slipping as they invariably do occasionally I become a total manner nazi. I've put dinners in front of them and then 10 seconds later taken them away again lol.

An interesting point that came up in discussions this weekend was that it's not just deeds that need correcting, but attitudes behind the deeds. It's something I never really thought about much before now, but thinking on it I've realised just how much my parents drummed into me why I should be apologetic in certain circumstances or whatever I was supposed to be that I wasn't.
Like with your kids, if I failed to say "Thank You" when served at the table, the food would be taken away and I would get told in no uncertain terms about the hard work that had gone into producing that meal, until I was appropriately thankful, and very aware of why I should be.

This seems to be something that just doesn't happen these days. Schools can do only so much to correct attitude, that has to come from the home and the parents.

Originally Posted by NokkonWud

I do often feel the only person out there with manners. I've never not held a door open for someone, but it seems no one does for me any more.

I tend to feel that way at times too. It always used to surprise students at the 6th form where I was working when I held open doors for them, and the same with teachers too. Most of them would actually thank me though. In some cases certain teachers never would (I was only a lowly 'support staff' member as far as they were concerned, probably about one rank above mud, despite how important our roles were to their day-to-day teaching), and I'd always make the point of saying "Thank you for letting me hold the door for you." It's great when you get to do that with them in front of students too. They soon learn.
What really did cheese me off at the college was the number of times I was left to struggle with a door whilst lugging around projectors, projection screens, TVs, the PA pod, PCs, monitors, printers and the like. All were clumsy big things and awkward at the best of times to lug around, without having to open doors. I could go to a door right beside a student standing chatting, they might even watch me struggling with the door, but they'd often not bother to help. The teachers were worst at that though, by a long stretch.

[loki]

Originally Posted by NokkonWud

The Americans leave us standing, hell they even class people as ma'am and sir.

I do often feel the only person out there with manners. I've never not held a door open for someone, but it seems no one does for me any more.

I agree about the Americans. The first time I went to the States, I was very sceptical and expecting the have a nice day stuff. The thing is either all of them are very good actors or they do sincerely mean it. I suspect that as our manners get eroded here, then when people do speak like that then you assume it's false or put on

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Garp

If anything I've found it to be the complete opposite. Most of the foreigners I've dealt with have been far better mannered than us Brits, which is quite appalling for what a country once infamous for its "proper" and unfailingly courteous behaviour. In particular I've found the Hungarians to be the most polite.

You shouldn't be so quick to generalise about 'us Brits' when we are divided amongst ourselves, unless this is also an admission that you yourself have appalling manners. Your comment is also generalised and of little value unless you have had the benefit of seeing the several parts of London where the percentage and variety of foreigners is much higher than elsewhere.

Blaming the foreigners is a good way to hide from the truth: Britain has gone appallingly down hill, and the fault lies at home, not elsewhere. It's easy to pick on outside targets, but if we were as good as we'd ever be, foreigners would be the embarrassed ones.

Foreigners will bear the blame for that which they are responsible, as well as their successes - were people not ready to generalise on foreigners and at the same time criticise others for doing so.

Also, one visit to the 3rd world would quickly allow anyone to understand why foreign manners are so absent.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Garp

I'd always make the point of saying "Thank you for letting me hold the door for you."

[loki]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

Also, one visit to the 3rd world would quickly allow anyone to understand why foreign manners are so absent.

Serious question. Is it just cultural ?

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by loki

Serious question. Is it just cultural ?

In my opinion, the harsher your living conditions the less need for manners and the greater possibility that being polite in any way may work against you. If you've grown up in this it would seem just like the way everyone is, and as a habit would take time to lose.

I don't think that prosperous people from third world nations suffer from this as I've known people from the poorest countries who got a good education and are excellent in dealing with people.

[AboveTheSalt]

Originally Posted by NokkonWud

The Americans leave us standing, hell they even class people as ma'am and sir.

I would have to say that that is a wild generalisation - America is a VERY big place and there are significant differences in people's attitude from place to place.

I have visited about a dozen places in the USA and whilst I would agree with you about San Francisco, Dallas and New Orleans, I would definitely disagree so far as Miami and New York are concerned. I found the New Yorkers typically to be about as rude as any group of people I have ever encountered. Other placed I have visited in the US seemed no better or worse than the UK.

[Psymonkee]

Oh yes manners....working in a stupidmarket see's just the very best on offer.

Foreigners are the most thankful/grateful
The Locals are a 50/50 split between having any manners at all and nothing.
The staff are some of the worst however.

Most of the tourists are so wrapped up in the fact that there in St.Andrews that they amble in the middle of the street, cross the road where ever the want and generally blame the locals when they get hit :\

Best of the bunch (behind the foreigners) has to be the students actually....

[Garp]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

You shouldn't be so quick to generalise about 'us Brits' when we are divided amongst ourselves, unless this is also an admission that you yourself have appalling manners. Your comment is also generalised and of little value unless you have had the benefit of seeing the several parts of London where the percentage and variety of foreigners is much higher than elsewhere.

Yes there are groups that still have good manners, and yes we are still divided, but you really don't have to go far to keep seeing that as a whole we've gone down hill. Not all generalisations are bad. Heck, you yourself have been sitting there using one when talking about "Foreigners" without even deigning to identify whether you're talking about Europeans, Americans, Australians or wherever. All have dramatically different attitudes to life, manners and pretty much every relevant aspect to this conversation.
Even living in the upper middle-class kind of area I'm in manners are noticeably absent where they never used to be, shockingly also in just the space of 10 - 15 years.

I've lived in the East End of London in a fairly dodgy area, surrounded by Polish, Hungarians, Saffers, Irish, Jews, Iranians and probably pretty much every racial or religious group there is. White Caucasian was the definite ethnic minority. I've also spent time in North and West London, and hung out with people from all over the city. Everywhere I've been, shops, on the buses, in pubs, chatting with people and seeing their general behaviour, almost without fail its been the Brits with the worst behaviour, the Jews with the best, and Hungarians not far behind. The Polish were the most diverse group out there for behaviour. Probably the majority were well behaved and well mannered, but the minority were the most visible ones, generally shaven headed yobs pissing on streets and so on. With the brits the Chavs are by far the worst (hardly a surprise there) but what is appalling are the middle class and upper class people. It's not that they barge you or do anything quite so dramatic and ugly as the Chavs, but when out and about their complete obliviousness to everything going on around them, so focussed on getting to their destination courtesy doesn't even register as a blip on their radar. To them there seems to be no one else in the world. That attitude carries on into other stuff, be it simple things like holding open doors, or the more showy stuff like offering your umbrella to a woman without one when it's raining.

Foreigners will bear the blame for that which they are responsible, as well as their successes - were people not ready to generalise on foreigners and at the same time criticise others for doing so.

Umm.. hypocrite much? A large majority of your political focussed posts are horrifically generalised when it comes to foreigners. If you're going to criticise other people, sort out your own house first.

Also, one visit to the 3rd world would quickly allow anyone to understand why foreign manners are so absent.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you visited a 3rd world country, and more importantly, visited places that aren't the main city in that country?
Wherever I've travelled I've found better manners than in the UK. They seem to have not lost that sense of community that appears to be lost around here, or at least certainly down in the South. It seems the majority of people know more about what is happening in the lives of characters in Soaps than they do about their neighbours. I wonder how many of their neighbours people on BD can name? How many of them do they know anything about more than just the basics?
Most places across eastern Europe I've been to (and in those places I've been away from the cities), including the '3rd world' ones have a very strong emphasis on being good hosts, to the point where it can be very awkward for visitors not used to the culture (e.g. you can't say "That's a nice rug" because they'll be honour bound to give it to you, and to refuse would be highly rude). Anyone seen to be bad hosts tends to be ostracised by the people around them.

[Gnat]

I hate it when people dont use good manners.

The thing I hate most is when people will not use manners towards chidren, as if they dont need them.
Like the other week, someone bumped into me and oliver, and said sorry to me, but not to him, despite almost knocking him over.
If he is able to use manners himself, then he should be given the same courtesy imo.
And I often here parents saying or asking things with children, and not bothering to say please or thankyou to them. It really annoys me.