New building regulations for bathrooms - Unbelieveable.

[Garp]

Originally Posted by divine

To be fair, has anyone actually read the regulations to see what the limits will be?

Or is everyone just angry and outraged over something that might turn out to be entirely sensible?

I don't think you quite understand where people are mostly coming from.
It's not so much the temperature aspect (though in part it is), it's the fact that this is H&S sticking their nose into something that really doesn't need regulated. I'll quite happily agree it's a sensible temperature limit, but it isn't actually necessary.

This isn't the first time and it's almost certainly not going to be the last time that they've stuck noses in and regulated stupid stuff. The more and more they restrict the more and more people are getting pissed off, and the more and more such basic principles as "common sense" just get thrown out the window. If I run a bath of hot water, common sense tells me to check the temperature first rather than just assuming it's right.
Do we really want to be encouraging people with the a level of instictive stupidity so low that they don't? Do we really want to allow them to breed?

This isn't an H&S case, but it's an example of the type of social stupidity they're encouraging: We got rid of sharp knives at the table and put round nosed ones there instead to reduce injuries to self and others.. and now have the rediculous situation whereby if I order a steak I have to have a seperate sharp knife delivered. It never used to be necessary, and it didn't actually achieve anything other than added inconvenience. If someone wants to attack someone with a knife, they'll just order steak, or probably more than half the time in 'high society' find the steak knives are already on the table anyway to go with their meal.
It gained nothing, probably saved no one, and just causes additional cleaning.

[divine]

Originally Posted by Garp

I don't think you quite understand where people are mostly coming from.

I think most people misinterpreted what the regulations are and where they apply and got angry before they knew anything about it.

Originally Posted by Garp

This isn't the first time and it's almost certainly not going to be the last time that they've stuck noses in and regulated stupid stuff. The more and more they restrict the more and more people are getting pissed off, and the more and more such basic principles as "common sense" just get thrown out the window. If I run a bath of hot water, common sense tells me to check the temperature first rather than just assuming it's right.

Some things are stupid, i'll agree. I don't think this is. What exactly is bad about preventing a bath being so hot it can scald within seconds?

Originally Posted by Garp

Do we really want to be encouraging people with the a level of instictive stupidity so low that they don't? Do we really want to allow them to breed?

Are you honestly saying that all in seriousness? I can just imagine you bringing that one up in a meeting about the new proposal.

'Anyone got anything further to add to this proposal?'
"Yes, I think we should scrap the temperature idea so stupid people scald themselves to death, we can't be having dumb people breed, right guys?"
'...'
"Right guys?"
'...'

Originally Posted by Garp

This isn't an H&S case, but it's an example of the type of social stupidity they're encouraging: We got rid of sharp knives at the table and put round nosed ones there instead to reduce injuries to self and others..

I honestly don't think it's similar to that situation at all. It's just preventing a physically dangerous temperature of water filling your bath, similar to how hot water is stored at a minimum temperature to prevent legionnaires disease. Or perhaps we shouldn't regulate that either, after all, if someone is stupid enough to store their hot water lower than 60C they probably deserve to get legionnaires disease right?

What I think this is, is a case of people being too hasty to get angry at 'health and safety' when in reality the idea is perfectly sensible and will negatively impact hardly anyone.

I reckon had this not been publicised and someone bought a house with such a system installed, they wouldn't have even noticed. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some people here already have such a system, the regulation has been in use in Scotland for almost 2 years already and i'd not be surprised if some builds just included them anyway.

Are there any reasons beyond 'I don't want to be told what i can do in my own house' or 'stupid people shouldn't breed' why this is a bad idea? I'm struggling to think of any.

[Glaucus]

How is that similar. Legionnaires is not something you can see/feel or control.

Temprature is. I know in winter I love a hot shower and My shower doesn't actually go that hot which is so so annoying and if it was or it being rented I would of sorted it out by know. What that actual temperature is I'm not sure. But unsurprisingly baths aren't just used for baths. Seeing as its basically a massive sink you can fit other stuff in there.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by divine

Are you honestly saying that all in seriousness? I can just imagine you bringing that one up in a meeting about the new proposal.

Actually, you missed an important point - one I only just realised myself.

H&S apply this reg to new builds only. So, dumb person rents a new build and fills their bath according to what H&S say they can have. Then they go somewhere without this 'safety net' and do the same. Oops!

[divine]

Originally Posted by AcidHell2

How is that similar. Legionnaires is not something you can see/feel or control.

Temprature is. I know in winter I love a hot shower and My shower doesn't actually go that hot which is so so annoying and if it was or it being rented I would of sorted it out by know. What that actual temperature is I'm not sure. But unsurprisingly baths aren't just used for baths. Seeing as its basically a massive sink you can fit other stuff in there.

Stuff that needs to be immersed in 60C water but 48C, well that just won't do? I'm sure people will be facing that issue daily. If temperature is such an issue, you can always go and use the kitchen sink or even the bathroom sink if it's big enough, as these won't be limited. If it's too big to fit in a kitchen sink and absolutely needs water hotter than 48C i'd suggest it's not exactly a common household occurrence.

Originally Posted by Mark

Actually, you missed an important point - one I only just realised myself.

H&S apply this reg to new builds only. So, dumb person rents a new build and fills their bath according to what H&S say they can have. Then they go somewhere without this 'safety net' and do the same. Oops!

Whilst true, the new safety net won't give you a temperature you can just jump in and feel fine. It can still scald you if you spend a few minutes in it, so it will still hurt and feel damn hot, it just no longer has the ability to scald you in seconds should something untoward happen.

In both situations, unless you have elephant skin or something, putting your hand in to test the water will result in you thinking 'ouch, that's pretty bloody hot'. However with the new regulation, should an accident occur and you slipped on a wet tile floor say and landed in the bath, it will not scald you in a matter of seconds, it would take minutes.

[Glaucus]

Originally Posted by divine

Stuff that needs to be immersed in 60C water but 48C, well that just won't do? I'm sure people will be facing that issue daily. If temperature is such an issue, you can always go and use the kitchen sink or even the bathroom sink if it's big enough, as these won't be limited. If it's too big to fit in a kitchen sink and absolutely needs water hotter than 48C i'd suggest it's not exactly a common household occurrence.

Does it mater that it's not an every day occurrence. It's my house, why should I be limited to some stupid H&S rule.

[divine]

Can you actually name anything so big you would need to place it in a bath and that needs water hotter than 48C for whatever reason or is this an entirely imaginary situation to try and make a point?

So far the only reasons brought up as to why this is stupid are

I don't want people telling me what to do
We should let stupid people scald themselves
I want to put huge objects in my bath that need really hot water

So far i'm not being convinced there is any genuine issue with the regulation itself beyond people having a rant at something for the sake of it. H&S is getting mentioned a lot too, though i'm not sure where that came from, i've not seen anything saying they had anything to do with it.

[Glaucus]

making beer for a start. Hotter the better.

someone else puts shoes in the bath to soften. This is probably very common in teh forces I imagine.


I will see how hot my shower gets latter as that is far to cold.

I wouldn't mind it if you where allowed to change it, then have to restore it before selling the house. That would be fine.

[divine]

Shoes/boots will fit in a kitchen sink, unless your sink is considerably smaller than all the ones i've seen.

Making beer in your bath is not an entirely common process, something very few people do and not very often. If very hot water is absolutely critical use the kettle to top it up a few times.

[Pumpkinstew]

I'm on divine's side of this argument.

Helps prevent injury from scalding water.
- reduced cost to NHS to treat injuries
- fewer work days lost to injury

Also improves energy efficiency of the home