I want to go racing... Help needed

[Darryn]

Hi folks...

I know Vix and Kaiowas are both active MR2 racers, and im sure i remember reading about someone else on here that also does it. Basically Im very interested in getting into track racing and time attack type events, im looking for some guides, pointers and advice really. Ive no clue where to start looking for information, what kind of club license etc i need to take part in competitive events.

Im prepared to spend what it takes to get my current car (Honda CTR EP3) kitted out to the required level, stripping, roll cage, extinguishers, etc.

Anyways, any links, forums, tips and advice would be greatly welcomed, Thanks Darryn.

This is all on the back of the fact ive got bored of Photography, so thats freed up some spare cash, and ive done a couple of trackdays with some great feedback from the instructor... I think ive finally found something i don't suck at.

[vix]

Just rushing out to work so this is a quick post, but you sound like sprinting is a good idea, slightly cheaper too to begin with.

I'm sure Phil will be on hand later, but have a look around for MSA sprints. Your outlay as well as prepping the car will be an MSA non race licence (if you do MSA sprints which most are), race clothing, helmet etc.

Check the regs for rules on what you can and can't do to the car as well.

[Del Lardo]

Sprints are a very good way of starting some racing as there is minimal chance of you damaging your car if you get it wrong.

Is the Civic your only car and what would happen if you did crash it? If you can't afford to write it off then I very much doubt you can afford proper racing though I'd be happy if someone can prove me wrong.

Personally I'd stick with track days, Sprints have never struck me as particularly good value as they generally cost ~£60 and you get anything from 6-18 minutes of actual track time (dependant on circuit). While a track day is more expensive, you get a lot more track time for your money.

If you do want to do racing then it could be worth looking into something like http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/ though when I looked into it a few years back the cost was about £4k for the car and ~£10k for the race season assuming you didn't seriously damage the car.

[kaiowas]

Most sprinting in the UK is run under the regulations of the MSA. To be eligible for MSA events you need to be a member of an invited motor club plus you need an MSA National B non-race licence. Getting the licence is a simple matter of filling in a form and handing over £30 or so. This needs renewing annually. You'll also need proper fireproof overalls etc and a motorsport approved crash helmet. Entry will cost somewhere in the order of £100 or so per event for which you'll typically get 2 practice runs plus 2 or 3 timed runs. A single MSA sprint will include many classes, in production cars alone there'll be 3-4 bands of engine capacity as well as 3 levels of modification:

Standard Production cars - Virtually no modifications allowed at all.
Road going saloon and sports - Modifications to engine, suspension etc allowed but there are restrictions on what is/isn't allowed.
Modified production sports and saloon - Just about anything goes.

If you're looking to try MSA sprinting I'd suggest starting out in Road going saloon and sports with the Civic and see how it goes. You won't be able to strip it out (one of the restrictions of this class is that your complete interior needs to remain in place) and depending on how your engine size fits in with the classes you may find yourself with no chance of winning anything but it'll get you a feel for what sort of outlay is required to be competitive in the various classes, what class you want to compete in and what car is best for the job.

The sprinting that Me, Vix and Zirax do (Toyota Sprint Series) is not affiliated with the MSA at all. It runs to different rules with a different class structure. For people who just want to try competitive motorsport I think it's much more accessible as you can have a go with no upfront costs (there's no requirement for a fireproof suit, and crash helmets can be hired on the day). We also get 8 timed runs per event for a similar outlay to an MSA event. Of course not having a Toyota will prove a slight hinderance but that's nothing that can't be worked around Javelin who run the sprints also run track events on the sprint course at Barkston Heath which are open to any car if you fancy taking the Civic along for a go.

Circuit racing is a whole new level of expense and commitment. And is probably something to save for further down the line. Getting a licence, registering for a championship and paying your race fees for a season will easily eat up a few thousand before you've even thought about a car. As for the car itself I'd probably not even consider using the Civic. To keep costs somewhere sensible you'll be wanting to start out in a one make series with limited modifications allowed as if you try a more open series you'll find there are plenty of people with the resources to simply spend their way to the front. Once you've selected the series you want to compete in then you'd be best off buying a pre-prepared car, it'll save you a lot of trouble and expense. Then there are running costs to consider, compared to sprinting you'll be a lot harder on the car and that's assuming you stay out of trouble. In a split second you can very easily destroy the car and find yourself either out for the season or facing a huge bill simply to stay on track....

[Zirax]

Just to echoe some of the posts above. One of the reasons I chose to do sprinting in a mk1 mr2 is the cost. For instance if I write the car off into a wall, I will be pissed off, but it is not going to cripple me to quickly go out and get another one and swap over the bits. At the moment your Civic looks good, but I am unsure how a stripped one will compare resale wise as well. I would look at getting a second car for track / sprinting use. Simply because you really don't need a nice looking car.

Circuit racing is wayyyy to expensive, unless you have some serious money behind you. One of the things that puts me off is the ongoing costs. It's all to easy to get a knock and have to repair it each weekend. Sprinting is not really that hard on the car, typically its shorter track meaning you won't have the 20 min continual strain on all the systems.

[Darryn]

Okey kokey thanks for that everyone,

If i crashed the Civic, assuming i walked away, i would buy another and salvage any undamaged parts, Civics are cheap enough and ive now got access to a 2car garage for spares/repairs.

Trackdays are great fun for learning the track and the cars limits, but, the Javelin ones dont allow timing, so, ive no real idea, besides overtaking stuff, how fast/slow and how much i improve over the course of the day...

Sprints seem to be just what i want, after looking on the MSA website it also mentions Hillclimbs, which is another avenue im now interested in.

Im disappointed that circuit racing is soo expensive, my budget will be upto ~£10k per year, i could throw more money at the project, but, im saving for a house.
I realise with simple entry fees, servicing and consumables £10k isnt going to go very far, let alone any damage i pick up, so, Sprints+hillclimbs are the only option.

Ive downloaded the MSA competition Application form and will read thru and fill it in at work... It looks like ill have to make a doctors appointment, which im not looking forwards too.

Ive checked out Javelin (who i did my trackdays with) and the only sprint series they run are the Toyota one, i could buy a Toyota of course, and ive got a lust for a Supra, but, i want to get experience with FWD before i swap to RWD.

So thanks again, any more info is more than welcome and ill keep you updated with my progress.

[kaiowas]

The Javelin days at Barkston aren't really a conventional track day. They're generally listed as drift days although if there's interest they'll open up the sprint course as well, as there's only one car out at a time and no passengers their insurance then allows them to time your runs. Worth contacting Colin and asking what they've got coming up.

Shouldn't need a medical or anything for an MSA licence unless there's already something wrong with you. I've applied twice and didn't need one either time.

Although Javelin only run the Toyota series MLR run one for Evos which I think is still going and there was a story on PH a few months about another one starting up which I seem to recall was a scooby series. If you're seriously tempted by the Toyota series I can give you plenty of advice, first thing being that Supras are a bit lardy and not really nimble enough. We've had a couple turn up but it doesn't really suit them.

[Del Lardo]

Darryn, I think that you are going about this all wrong.....

You want to go racing but have no experience in a RWD car and this is something that IMO you should sort out pretty quickly.

From what I remember your Civic is pretty heavily moddified and without wanting to detract from what is a bloody good hot hatch it is not a sports car. I can't claim to have loads of experience in a Civic but I did take one out for a 2 hour unaccompanied test drive a few years ago when I was considering one as a 2nd car and on the road I was way faster in the Civic than I was in my Elise as I could jump in and drive it at 9/10th straight away as it was such an easy car to drive. Now while this is great on the road I imagine this would get very boring on the track very quickly as there would be no real challenge.

For your £10k budget you are easily into Westfield/Elise territory or if you wanted to start off spending less money a MX-5 would suffice. They are not going to have the huge power figures of something like a Civic but they weigh a lot less and offer something far more important, a geniunely engaging driving experience. Forget power understeer and get ready to learn to catch the back end under power and enjoy a subtlety of car control that you will never experience in a Civic.

As for track day timing, there is an easy way around it. Fit a camera and film the time on track. Not only will this allow you to work out your lap times but also analyse where you can improve in the cold light of day when the addrenaline isn't running.

[Darryn]

Cheers Del Lardo, several good points there.

Unfortunately Ive only been driving for 18months now and my short experience ive only had a a couple of hours in a RWD car, my sisters MX5, i had too much fun but as you say it was a more rewarding driving experiance. My main problem with this is a 2nd car is pretty much a non-option atm... Due to my lack of driving experiance and low NCB means to insure a 2nd car is very costly.

The idea about mounting a video camera and analysing the footage for timing and also improvement is a great idea... Ill look into bullet cameras for mounting into/under both the bumpers.

I did enjoy my time on track with the Civic, as you say the ease at which it can be driven relatively fast was a lot of fun. The LSD and Geometry work has balanced the power understeer and lift-off oversteer to make it very predictable and controllable.

My Civic is quite well modified, simply to improve the safety and trackworthyness...

Tar-Ox G88 Brake Disks all around
Ferodo DS2500 pads all around
Goodridge Braided Hoses all around
AP racing 551 Dot5.1 fluid
Eibach ProKit Lowering Springs
D2 Camber Kit
TyreSure Sensors
Toyo R888
Buddy Club Oil Sump Baffle
Quaife LSD

I am currently planning on adding a Rotrex Supercharger (330bhp) and either Endless, Brembo or Stoptech big brake upgrade kit... The Torox are apparently not all that good and are prone to warping.

Maybe i should save the cash instead. I want to stick to a single car solution for both track and daily drive. Im thinking Elise or S2000, ive test driven both and preferred the S2000 power delivery, but, the Elise would probably more fun on track. Unfortunately due to where i live a Westfield/Caterham is out of the question, it would attract too much un-wanted attention from the local low-life.

[Justsomebloke]

What's your local track ???
I'd spend a bit of time there mate, Put your face about get to know a few marshals, Hang in the pits, Pick up tips rules & regs etc You are also pretty likely to get a track day car For sale as well & that would be ready to race rather than need all the mods prior.