NAS needed but with certain requirements

Desmo · 26-07-2011, 09:51

Hey peeps,

I'm looking at getting some kind of NAS for work but I'd also like it to include some kind of backup feature with a removable drive.

At the moment I have an external USB caddy connected to my Mac for my jobs. I also have a second USB caddy as a backup drive that backs up the first using Time Machine for incremental backups.

A second machine (WinXP) connects to my shared jobs drive via the network to also work on jobs. This obviously means my machine has to be on for that machine to connect. Not a huge problem in itself but it would be handy if we had a standalone NAS unit.

The backup drive will be taken home with me each day to keep it off site meaning it needs to be easily removable.

To sum it up...I need a two drive bay NAS that will happily work with OSX and Windows and also allow incremental backups (still happy to allow Time Machine to do this) along with the backup drive being removable.

Does anything fit the bill?

Mark · 26-07-2011, 23:21

The only solution that would work as an internal backup mechanism would be a RAID-1 (Mirror) solution, but continually removing internal drives is a bad idea - and any techie worth their money will tell you RAID-1 is a fault tolerance solution, not a backup.

So the next best solution is a NAS for online/near-line storage and an external USB drive (or second NAS box) for the offsite storage. Finding a NAS box that will handle the backup itself will be difficult, but the Synology line just might.

Don't use Time Machine for your disaster recovery backup. It's (obviously) not Windows friendly and earlier versions at least used some internal data structures that were not particularly fault tolerant. That's not something you want to find out when all else has already failed.

I really ought to figure out a backup strategy for my stuff but my data collection has long since passed manageable size limits.

Desmo · 28-07-2011, 11:35

Cheers Mark, I'll take a look at Synology to see if it leads me on the right path

Pumpkinstew · 28-07-2011, 13:33

How off the shelf are looking for?

If you don't want to compromise your requirements it might be worth looking into a bespoke solution using freeNAS or similar with an SFF case and ION mobo and whatever backup software suits you best.
You could either fit a lockable HDD caddy into the case oruse a hot pluggable USB/E-SATA external drive then.

Desmo · 29-07-2011, 07:31

Hadn't thogut of something like that, could be another option. Thought I'd found something yesterday that would fit the bill...an Iomega StorCenter. Looked to do what I wanted until I read that it had it's own proprietary backup system and you had to send it off to Iomega to get stuff restored. What's the point in that? Unless of course the reviewers on Amazon were talking rubbish.

Zirax · 30-07-2011, 11:25

Have you considered a microserver?
http://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/node/255520

This has £100 cashback but the offer runs out this weekend so you need to do it by Sunday. Its a 4 bay machine but it is rather small so you could quite easily pick it up and lob in the car. Bit more flexible than a NAS in that it is a full machine for £120.

Mondo · 04-08-2011, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmo

To sum it up...I need a two drive bay NAS that will happily work with OSX and Windows and also allow incremental backups (still happy to allow Time Machine to do this) along with the backup drive being removable.

Does anything fit the bill?

A drobo works. It has hot swap so it just pops in and out with 2 clips. It is accessible by both mac and pc. It does incremental back ups.

The only caveat is that you can remove all the HD when it's off. And put it all back in when it's off. Any drives that gets inserted while it's already booted up will be formatted. Also if you have 2 drives inside, it will run in mirror mode, raid 1? But the data can be only read from a drobo, I don't think you can read it with just a Sata caddy. Need to check on that.

Mark · 04-08-2011, 21:09

Drobo, like all RAID, is in itself an availability solution - and not a backup solution. That said, combined with the off-site backup, it's a good solution. I have two Drobos and neither of them have given me any trouble.

They've both given me irritations though, which is why I was hesitant to suggest them as a business solution. Firstly, they seem to like disconnecting themselves after a few days (mine do it quite often, and both Mac and Windows users have this issue), and they use lots of proprietary technology, so if something goes wrong (and like any tech it does sometimes), you're at the mercy of their technical support. For some bizarre reason they even 'encrypt' the diagnostic log (though it's not really encryption as it can be recovered with a few simple commands).

As for the off-site backup, have you considered cloud-based. It's not perfect because if the company goes bust or decides to delete your data, you're up the creek, but services like CrashPlan+/CrashPlan Pro seem to get things said about them.

PS - No, you can't read Drobo disks with anything else. Proprietary filesystem. Mining the data off the disks might work but that's messy and expensive (either in time or money, or both). To be fair though, they're not the only NAS box to do that.

Desmo · 05-08-2011, 07:17

There doesn't seem to be a decent solution that suits what I need, I might just go back to using a second external USB drive bay to backup to. You'd think there would be a need for something like this for small businesses but it seems not. You either get something that runs it's own proprietary system or need to jump to a full on server.

Lozza · 07-08-2011, 20:53

I have a NAS drive at work that holds all the shared artwork files, it has 2 500gb drives and runs in raid1 (I think, I'm not to hot on this network stuff)

So as far as I am aware, I have 2 copies of data at work. should the drive fail I have another there with all data to carry on with. Plugged into this NAS is a USB drive that is backed up every night using the NAS own backup program. So should I accidentally write over a file (happens more often than I care to admit when making revisions to artwork) I can access the USB and restore the file.

I also have another USB drive that is plugged into the computer (but could be plugged into the NAS as well) this does an on the fly backup using yardis.

We do gave a mac on our network and it reads the files from the NAS

If this sounds feasible for what your looking for I'll get more info for you.

26-07-2011, 09:51	#1
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	NAS needed but with certain requirements Hey peeps, I'm looking at getting some kind of NAS for work but I'd also like it to include some kind of backup feature with a removable drive. At the moment I have an external USB caddy connected to my Mac for my jobs. I also have a second USB caddy as a backup drive that backs up the first using Time Machine for incremental backups. A second machine (WinXP) connects to my shared jobs drive via the network to also work on jobs. This obviously means my machine has to be on for that machine to connect. Not a huge problem in itself but it would be handy if we had a standalone NAS unit. The backup drive will be taken home with me each day to keep it off site meaning it needs to be easily removable. To sum it up...I need a two drive bay NAS that will happily work with OSX and Windows and also allow incremental backups (still happy to allow Time Machine to do this) along with the backup drive being removable. Does anything fit the bill? __________________

28-07-2011, 11:35	#3
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	Cheers Mark, I'll take a look at Synology to see if it leads me on the right path __________________

28-07-2011, 13:33	#4
Pumpkinstew Absinthe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mostly Oxford, Sometimes Bristol Posts: 1,156	How off the shelf are looking for? If you don't want to compromise your requirements it might be worth looking into a bespoke solution using freeNAS or similar with an SFF case and ION mobo and whatever backup software suits you best. You could either fit a lockable HDD caddy into the case oruse a hot pluggable USB/E-SATA external drive then. __________________ Get old, or die tryin' PSTEWREVIEWS - Chunks of Meaty Reviews, Mixed with Your Five a Day of News, Comment and Opinion, Floating in a Broth of Suspect Grammar and Seasoned Liberally with Mixed Metaphor. Tasty.

29-07-2011, 07:31	#5
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	Hadn't thogut of something like that, could be another option. Thought I'd found something yesterday that would fit the bill...an Iomega StorCenter. Looked to do what I wanted until I read that it had it's own proprietary backup system and you had to send it off to Iomega to get stuff restored. What's the point in that? Unless of course the reviewers on Amazon were talking rubbish. __________________

04-08-2011, 21:09	#8
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Drobo, like all RAID, is in itself an availability solution - and not a backup solution. That said, combined with the off-site backup, it's a good solution. I have two Drobos and neither of them have given me any trouble. They've both given me irritations though, which is why I was hesitant to suggest them as a business solution. Firstly, they seem to like disconnecting themselves after a few days (mine do it quite often, and both Mac and Windows users have this issue), and they use lots of proprietary technology, so if something goes wrong (and like any tech it does sometimes), you're at the mercy of their technical support. For some bizarre reason they even 'encrypt' the diagnostic log (though it's not really encryption as it can be recovered with a few simple commands). As for the off-site backup, have you considered cloud-based. It's not perfect because if the company goes bust or decides to delete your data, you're up the creek, but services like CrashPlan+/CrashPlan Pro seem to get things said about them. PS - No, you can't read Drobo disks with anything else. Proprietary filesystem. Mining the data off the disks might work but that's messy and expensive (either in time or money, or both). To be fair though, they're not the only NAS box to do that. Last edited by Mark; 04-08-2011 at 21:22.

26-07-2011, 23:21	#2
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	The only solution that would work as an internal backup mechanism would be a RAID-1 (Mirror) solution, but continually removing internal drives is a bad idea - and any techie worth their money will tell you RAID-1 is a fault tolerance solution, not a backup. So the next best solution is a NAS for online/near-line storage and an external USB drive (or second NAS box) for the offsite storage. Finding a NAS box that will handle the backup itself will be difficult, but the Synology line just might. Don't use Time Machine for your disaster recovery backup. It's (obviously) not Windows friendly and earlier versions at least used some internal data structures that were not particularly fault tolerant. That's not something you want to find out when all else has already failed. I really ought to figure out a backup strategy for my stuff but my data collection has long since passed manageable size limits.

30-07-2011, 11:25	#6
Zirax Goes up to 11! Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,577	Have you considered a microserver? http://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/node/255520 This has £100 cashback but the offer runs out this weekend so you need to do it by Sunday. Its a 4 bay machine but it is rather small so you could quite easily pick it up and lob in the car. Bit more flexible than a NAS in that it is a full machine for £120.

05-08-2011, 07:17	#9
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	There doesn't seem to be a decent solution that suits what I need, I might just go back to using a second external USB drive bay to backup to. You'd think there would be a need for something like this for small businesses but it seems not. You either get something that runs it's own proprietary system or need to jump to a full on server. __________________

07-08-2011, 20:53	#10
Lozza Appreciates the very fine things in life Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Simplicity Posts: 457	I have a NAS drive at work that holds all the shared artwork files, it has 2 500gb drives and runs in raid1 (I think, I'm not to hot on this network stuff) So as far as I am aware, I have 2 copies of data at work. should the drive fail I have another there with all data to carry on with. Plugged into this NAS is a USB drive that is backed up every night using the NAS own backup program. So should I accidentally write over a file (happens more often than I care to admit when making revisions to artwork) I can access the USB and restore the file. I also have another USB drive that is plugged into the computer (but could be plugged into the NAS as well) this does an on the fly backup using yardis. We do gave a mac on our network and it reads the files from the NAS If this sounds feasible for what your looking for I'll get more info for you.

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