kit cars...

volospian · 17-12-2012, 11:13

Right, I'll give the background to this before I start the topic. I was, as some of you know, working on a scimitar project. The idea was to have a classic tax free car to drive the 15 minutes or so to work each day, plus doing the general workhorse stuff like visiting the tip, picking up ebay bits and so on. I bought a scimitar as it was something I liked and I had a RV8 hanging around that I thought could go in for a bit of V8 soundtrack. I was intending to tidy it up, replace just about everything wearable, retrim, respary and have a nice two door shooting brake.

However, since then my job has changed. I now work from home, which is good, but need to travel to the main offices (Milton Keynes, Alderley Edge or Hemel) and various customer locations (I've recently been working in Bolton, fo example). Now work have furnished me with a nice diesel powered Jaguar XF for this travelling, so I'm happy there, but now the "projet car" becomes something fun for the weekends.

I could "track day" up the scimitar (as I only live afew miles from Donnington) but if I were starting a track day car, I probably wouldn't start with a scimitar... Anyay, as the wife and I are avid walkers and go up to the peaks or so most weekends, I can see myself making much more use of a soft top for those sunny trips to the countryside (all two days a year, it's such a lovely sunny country in which we live...).

I could go for another classic rag top, but I don't really want a rolling resto, or a total nut and bolt rebuild, as both end up with hours of stripping out the old electrics, carpets, seats, drilling out rivets, wrestling with countless rusty bolts, etc. and I'm not in the mood for such a big job. The scim has been a lot of work to get to where it is and I don't really want to start that all over again. However, I do want a project and not a concourse motor that needs nothing done...

So... I'm thinking of a soft top style kit car. That way there is minimal stripping of the donor, just the specific parts you need, the rest goes to the scrappy or on ebay. Then you refurb those parts and bolt them on, with nice shiny new bolts, to a shiny new chassis, etc. I can even get some parts already reconditioned an not need to strip and refurb them at all.

I'm thinking of either an Aristocat XK120 Replica. This is quite nice. We saw one at the kit car show this year and we were both (the wife and I) impressed with the company. Plus you can now build one using XJ40 running gear.

The alternative that we have decided upon is a cobra replica of some kind. Boring perhaps, but I already have a RV8 an gearbox in the garage which wouldn't be used in the Xk120 , the wife loves Cobras and I must say I like them myself. The issue here is that there seems to be about a hundred different Cobra makers out there. I have narrowed the options down to Dax, AK and Pilgrim. Anybody have an experience of any of these companies or their cars? any advice on kit car building? Sequences, resources, etc.

I'm intending to try and get to visit a few companies this week (off work all week) so that will help, but I thought I'd start a thread here and let your words of wisdom flood in!

Matblack · 17-12-2012, 12:12

My father and I considered this a long time ago and went to see Pilgrim who are very nice and let us dive their Cobra and Austin Healy 3000 models.

We never went through with it though.

To me Pilgrim's car was a replica and designed to be driven on the road, my gut instinct would be Dax if you want a racer, they make some super 7 style cars including a 4x4 Cosworth and even if you don't want they they do seem more performance orientated.

MB

FakeSnake · 17-12-2012, 21:32

I loved building my cobra, although I will be honest, an RV8, unless very well tuned is just not quite enough..
My Roadcraft was a very good car, and relatively easy to build. They are now manufactured my Madgwick cars (Pagham)

Personally, I would not have gone for the Pilgrm, its a bit "budget", at the very least AK, Madgwick, and higher up... Dax

The AK Guys (I guess they are still over peterborough way?) were very friendly and very enthusiastic about their car.

If you want something that you can track, nothing less than a Gardener Douglas GD427.. Race proven and blooming epic.

I will be brutally honest though.. dont use the RV8, its just not enough (std) power to make the car actually very quick.. and if its performance you want.. Ford 351 or a Chevy 350.. WAY more tuneable for WAY less money!

The rules have changed since I built my car, I didnt have to conform the the IVA OR the previous SVA. I have the SVA manual you are welcome to have, it will give you lots of guidelines.

volospian · 19-12-2012, 17:05

I thought I may see you here

I went to AK on Monday afternoon. Very impressed with the car and the staff. As you say, very friendly and a good laugh. I ended up being there for a couple of hours, gassing about Le Mans and stuff. I got to go out in Jon's LS9 engined cobra. Jesus that thing is quick.

The only reason for the RV8 is that I already had it in the garage along with a suitable gearbox. I know the RV8 is expensive to tune, but I'm really not after massive power. I'm happy to cruise rather than aim for bragging rights in the HP stakes. Although... I don't know, I may see if I can source a cheap LS1 from somewhere.

A Place of Light · 20-12-2012, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by volospian

I thought I may see you here

I went to AK on Monday afternoon. Very impressed with the car and the staff. As you say, very friendly and a good laugh. I ended up being there for a couple of hours, gassing about Le Mans and stuff. I got to go out in Jon's LS9 engined cobra. Jesus that thing is quick.

The only reason for the RV8 is that I already had it in the garage along with a suitable gearbox. I know the RV8 is expensive to tune, but I'm really not after massive power. I'm happy to cruise rather than aim for bragging rights in the HP stakes. Although... I don't know, I may see if I can source a cheap LS1 from somewhere.

The only thing I'd add is that even though you're more than aware of the RV8's limitations, and that the whole project is going to be a toy for yourself, I'd advise you to bear in mind the eventual resale value. Yank powered cars will sell faster and for more money so just because you have the Rover sitting around doing nothing it may still be an overall better plan to pickup something like a cheap LS.
Just my 2c.

FakeSnake · 20-12-2012, 20:10

I might know of a chevy 5.0 tpi with computer and 6spd box for sale in the near future!
really nice setup as well!
my friend has just bought an LS6 and box for his Dax!

volospian · 21-12-2012, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FakeSnake

I might know of a chevy 5.0 tpi with computer and 6spd box for sale in the near future!
really nice setup as well!
my friend has just bought an LS6 and box for his Dax!

Hmmm... keep me posted... It sort of depends upon budget at the moment. Can I justify spending more on a new engine/'box when I already have something that wouldprobably do what I need? I appreciate the wisdom of considering the resale value, etc. but I also have to consider my usage. I don't really want a beast of a car, I just want something that looks good and makes the right noises. If it's too powerful the wife won't even get into it, no matter how I drive it and then it will hardly ever get used and I'd end up having to flog it anyway.

She's not good with "fast cars". After a while she stopped going in the Cerbera altogether because the "theatre" scared her too much. It was too easy to hit a damp spot pulling out at a junction and stick the back end out, or spin the wheels, or change down too quickly and get the snap, crackle and pop on the overrun. It made me grin like a fool, but it made the wife hate the car and end up refusing to get into it.

So, my current plan is to use the existing 3.5 V8, tuned to get around 200hp out of it. Then, once she gets used to the whole thing I may swap it out for a 5.0 version from a chimp or griff... There's plenty of those available. That should give me around the 300+ mark in a couple of years.

Mind you, if I found a cheap LS1 and 'box, I could perhaps be persueded as I do agree with the arguments. I know full well that I'll always wish I had 400+ when I'm out in it alone, and it will impact upon the resale value... we'll see. Ak have a 8 to 12 week lead time atm, and as I won't be ordering until after Christmas I have until around my birthday to think about what configuration I actually need the chassis in...

Grandad · 24-12-2012, 00:30

there's no way would I drive anything I had built

volospian · 05-01-2013, 19:06

Well... I have chosen to take the more prudent option and bought myself some american all-alloy 8 cylinder goodness. Not an LS1, but an L33 instead. It's the "truck" engine that goes in the 05-07 Silverado pickups. It's basically an LS1 with a slightly smaller bore but the same stroke to produce a 5.3 litre engine that pushes out around 310hp and 325lb/ft or so as standard.

Parts are pretty much interchangable with the LSx range (apart from intakes as they changed the head design for the LS3 and similar, so I can only use LS1 or LS6 intakes) so I can play with performance parts or forced induction later to leave me plenty of scope for power upgrades.

FakeSnake · 06-01-2013, 10:12

an excellent choice!

I presume you got the ECU as well? or are you going down the "custom" route?

17-12-2012, 11:13	#1
volospian Vodka Martini Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 786	kit cars (now with pics!)... Right, I'll give the background to this before I start the topic. I was, as some of you know, working on a scimitar project. The idea was to have a classic tax free car to drive the 15 minutes or so to work each day, plus doing the general workhorse stuff like visiting the tip, picking up ebay bits and so on. I bought a scimitar as it was something I liked and I had a RV8 hanging around that I thought could go in for a bit of V8 soundtrack. I was intending to tidy it up, replace just about everything wearable, retrim, respary and have a nice two door shooting brake. However, since then my job has changed. I now work from home, which is good, but need to travel to the main offices (Milton Keynes, Alderley Edge or Hemel) and various customer locations (I've recently been working in Bolton, fo example). Now work have furnished me with a nice diesel powered Jaguar XF for this travelling, so I'm happy there, but now the "projet car" becomes something fun for the weekends. I could "track day" up the scimitar (as I only live afew miles from Donnington) but if I were starting a track day car, I probably wouldn't start with a scimitar... Anyay, as the wife and I are avid walkers and go up to the peaks or so most weekends, I can see myself making much more use of a soft top for those sunny trips to the countryside (all two days a year, it's such a lovely sunny country in which we live...). I could go for another classic rag top, but I don't really want a rolling resto, or a total nut and bolt rebuild, as both end up with hours of stripping out the old electrics, carpets, seats, drilling out rivets, wrestling with countless rusty bolts, etc. and I'm not in the mood for such a big job. The scim has been a lot of work to get to where it is and I don't really want to start that all over again. However, I do want a project and not a concourse motor that needs nothing done... So... I'm thinking of a soft top style kit car. That way there is minimal stripping of the donor, just the specific parts you need, the rest goes to the scrappy or on ebay. Then you refurb those parts and bolt them on, with nice shiny new bolts, to a shiny new chassis, etc. I can even get some parts already reconditioned an not need to strip and refurb them at all. I'm thinking of either an Aristocat XK120 Replica. This is quite nice. We saw one at the kit car show this year and we were both (the wife and I) impressed with the company. Plus you can now build one using XJ40 running gear. The alternative that we have decided upon is a cobra replica of some kind. Boring perhaps, but I already have a RV8 an gearbox in the garage which wouldn't be used in the Xk120 , the wife loves Cobras and I must say I like them myself. The issue here is that there seems to be about a hundred different Cobra makers out there. I have narrowed the options down to Dax, AK and Pilgrim. Anybody have an experience of any of these companies or their cars? any advice on kit car building? Sequences, resources, etc. I'm intending to try and get to visit a few companies this week (off work all week) so that will help, but I thought I'd start a thread here and let your words of wisdom flood in! Last edited by volospian; 18-02-2013 at 17:52.

17-12-2012, 12:12	#2
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	My father and I considered this a long time ago and went to see Pilgrim who are very nice and let us dive their Cobra and Austin Healy 3000 models. We never went through with it though. To me Pilgrim's car was a replica and designed to be driven on the road, my gut instinct would be Dax if you want a racer, they make some super 7 style cars including a 4x4 Cosworth and even if you don't want they they do seem more performance orientated. MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

17-12-2012, 21:32	#3
FakeSnake Absinthe Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Devonshire Posts: 1,143	I loved building my cobra, although I will be honest, an RV8, unless very well tuned is just not quite enough.. My Roadcraft was a very good car, and relatively easy to build. They are now manufactured my Madgwick cars (Pagham) Personally, I would not have gone for the Pilgrm, its a bit "budget", at the very least AK, Madgwick, and higher up... Dax The AK Guys (I guess they are still over peterborough way?) were very friendly and very enthusiastic about their car. If you want something that you can track, nothing less than a Gardener Douglas GD427.. Race proven and blooming epic. I will be brutally honest though.. dont use the RV8, its just not enough (std) power to make the car actually very quick.. and if its performance you want.. Ford 351 or a Chevy 350.. WAY more tuneable for WAY less money! The rules have changed since I built my car, I didnt have to conform the the IVA OR the previous SVA. I have the SVA manual you are welcome to have, it will give you lots of guidelines. Last edited by FakeSnake; 17-12-2012 at 21:35.

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19-12-2012, 17:05	#4
volospian Vodka Martini Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 786	I thought I may see you here I went to AK on Monday afternoon. Very impressed with the car and the staff. As you say, very friendly and a good laugh. I ended up being there for a couple of hours, gassing about Le Mans and stuff. I got to go out in Jon's LS9 engined cobra. Jesus that thing is quick. The only reason for the RV8 is that I already had it in the garage along with a suitable gearbox. I know the RV8 is expensive to tune, but I'm really not after massive power. I'm happy to cruise rather than aim for bragging rights in the HP stakes. Although... I don't know, I may see if I can source a cheap LS1 from somewhere.

20-12-2012, 20:10	#6
FakeSnake Absinthe Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Devonshire Posts: 1,143	I might know of a chevy 5.0 tpi with computer and 6spd box for sale in the near future! really nice setup as well! my friend has just bought an LS6 and box for his Dax!

24-12-2012, 00:30	#8
Grandad Old Git Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,016	there's no way would I drive anything I had built

05-01-2013, 19:06	#9
volospian Vodka Martini Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 786	Well... I have chosen to take the more prudent option and bought myself some american all-alloy 8 cylinder goodness. Not an LS1, but an L33 instead. It's the "truck" engine that goes in the 05-07 Silverado pickups. It's basically an LS1 with a slightly smaller bore but the same stroke to produce a 5.3 litre engine that pushes out around 310hp and 325lb/ft or so as standard. Parts are pretty much interchangable with the LSx range (apart from intakes as they changed the head design for the LS3 and similar, so I can only use LS1 or LS6 intakes) so I can play with performance parts or forced induction later to leave me plenty of scope for power upgrades.

06-01-2013, 10:12	#10
FakeSnake Absinthe Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Devonshire Posts: 1,143	an excellent choice! I presume you got the ECU as well? or are you going down the "custom" route?