On a huge downer about living in the UK at the moment

[Del Lardo]

I've been spending the evening seriously considering alternatives to living in the UK as despite all the positives I'm just not happy living here at the moment. I think the problem is compounded by the amount of time I spend in mainland Europe in nice hotels/areas that give me a skewed view of what nice places they are.

Anyways my main issues are (in no particular order)............

I feel like a cash cow for the government. I did some rough calculations in my head earlier and I recon that last year including VAT etc I paid over £20k in tax and I honestly can't think what I get for it. I recently had to wait 3 days for a GP appointment and our road network is a joke. oh! I get my bins collected every 2 weeks.

I pay this insane (IMO) amount of tax yet I can't (and will probably never) be able to afford a house in Cambridge. This really bothers me as I am a very object orientated person. Up until now I've been able to work hard, get promotions and buy the things I want but now it just seems that I work my arse off to maintain where I am now with no chance of buying somewhere (I would want to live) without financially crippling myself. I can't help but think that I am the first of several generations that will be screwed by the recent housing boom and I am at the pivot point (i.e. if I'd been in the position to buy 5 years ago I'd be sorted and would probably think it was the best thing ever )

The social care network. Before I start on this one recent posts by people like Malc have made me realise that being out of work and claiming benefits isn't the bed of roses I thought it was (and believe me mate if I could offer you a job I would just from the attitude you've shown) but for every Malc there is a lazy workshy barsteward whose Marlboro Lights and Sky TV are paid for by me! A prime example (and one that takes me back to the 2 bed central Cambridge flat comment earlier) comes from a few weeks back... I'm having my hair cut and there's a young woman next to me who spends 20 minutes describing how she got herself pregnant when her drug dealer boyfriend got sent down so she could "get one of them nice flats down York Street orf the council". Now having paid rather a lot of rent to get a room in a house close to one of them nice flats I know that they are generally filled by young women whose sense of entitlement far outways anything they will ever contribure to society.

Todays story about Firefighters getting attacked when fighting fires. Now I made a half serious half flippant post of SELOC earlier (Lotus forum) ....

I came up with a rather novel solution (though one I'm sure the majority of SELOC would approve of) while driving to Heathrow this afternoon.

Due to all the terrorism the government tells us we should be scared of there should be armed rapid responce units covering most areas. When the firecrews are attacked the rapid responce units are called in and anyone attacking a firefighter is shot on sight.

and it got a very positive response. Now I'm sure that most people who thought it was a good idea don't really like the idea of people getting shot by the Police but the government need to realise that the general public are so pissed off with the level of anti social behavior in this country that such blatantly daft ideas all of a sudden seem viable.


The strange thing is that despite all my misgivings and rants I really can't think of anywhere else in the world I want to live so we must be doing something right.



DISCLAIMER
The opinions above are what I currently believe. If they upset or offend you I ask that you try to resist the temptation to call me a rude name, count to 10 and in a polite manner tell me why you think I am wrong. Honestly I will listen and my opinions can be changed by well reasoned arguments.

[Mark]

No upset or offence.

Just one question though - what's the connection between not being able to afford a place of your own and tax? (I do realise us old'uns once upon a time had the benefit of MIRAS - very briefly, I should add, in my case).

PS - My tax bill is probably somewhere close to yours (don't have the figures to hand). However, I'll wager I've been paying it about 10 years more, and I'm still here. Though god knows why.

[LeperousDust]

I can't really add anything to what you've said but the real world scares me the more i think abou it. I'm going to leave uni with a metric (and more) ton of debt and be in a horrible situation probably unless i score horrendously lucky with a job (slim chances).

[Del Lardo]

Originally Posted by Mark

No upset or offence.

Just one question though - what's the connection between not being able to afford a place of your own and tax? (I do realise us old'uns once upon a time had the benefit of MIRAS - very briefly, I should add, in my case).

PS - My tax bill is probably somewhere close to yours (don't have the figures to hand). However, I'll wager I've been paying it about 10 years more, and I'm still here. Though god knows why.

My point is (and I'll add in another point) that my high tax bill is what's stopping me from buying a house. IMO the 40% tax barrier was put in place to tax high earners like my father back when earning £34k was damn good as your mortgate was £400. It's now effecting people like me who are first time buyers (in the same way that stamp duty is) because the government needs so much more money from taxes. Hence one of the reasons I feel like a cash cow.

Mark, just as an aside, if you've been paying close on my tax bill for 10 years then you must have been in a postion 10 years ago to buy a bloody nice house and this is half my point. I earn a lot more than I ever thought I would when I left Uni but houses are far more expensive than I ever thought they'd be.

[Del Lardo]

Originally Posted by LeperousDust

I can't really add anything to what you've said but the real world scares me the more i think abou it. I'm going to leave uni with a metric (and more) ton of debt and be in a horrible situation probably unless i score horrendously lucky with a job (slim chances).

Dude, I really feel for you guys.

I have some rather strong views about student loans and peoples choice of courses but I'm going to leave that until tomorrow evening when I'm not falling asleep.

[Justsomebloke]

Dude.
We need the Decent hard working Law abiding people to Stay in the country Not leave.
I do understand where you are coming from though as I personally find great relief in having No assets/money etc because of some of the reasons you mention. I don't want to go into a long post about my own situation as i am quite sure you not only realise how crap it is but also know i do my best to climb out of it every single bloody day. It has to be said though that although i suffer from a lack of cash to do anything i do not suffer the stress or the appalling tax rates that workers in this country suffer.
My own suggestion to you would be to try to work your own situation better & be much more vocal publicly about how you feel. To many British people suffer in silence & we need those people to vocalise there frustration so that something is done about it. If all the decent hard working people leave our country we All will be ******.

[Matblack]

Yes, house prices are currently high and what you get for hard earned money is releatively low, you need to be a lot richer than you used to to afford a nice house but I'm not sure thats a reason to bring into question the existance of the social state.

Without taxes or with very low taxes countries have much higher diferentiations between the lower and higher earners, crime increases, deprevation increases and social divides open up which make for even more unpleasent living conditions for all concerned.

Capitalism is all very well but imagine a country with no social system, where if you get ill you have to pay to get better and if you can't then you die. Where you have to pay to send your kids to school. And remember because the people who are looking after you and teaching your kids have to live in the same country and they have to pay to get well and pay to get their kids taught, do you think that their services will come cheaply?

I suspect they will want to be very well paid for providing those services, right now people can afford to do these jobs because to a certain extent they are looked after by the state. My job for example is badly paid but I can reconsile that against the fact the essentials of life are paid for and if I get sick I don't need to be rich to get well. If however I lived in a capitalist state I would either have to charge for my services, meaning that rich kids got careers advice and poor kids didn't (which doesn't seem like a very good investment for this country) or I leave my job and find something better paid which means no kids get careers advice. This would be the same for all non essential but important services, they would be restricted to those who could afford them making for even greater social divides.

Your last statement is quite telling, that we must be doing something right. There are only a few countries I would rather live in, mostly the Scandinavian countries and guess what? Yep they all pay more taxes than we do in the UK

I could agree with you on the issue of social housing and that people who can't afford it should not be given somewhere to live for free but in your example the person involved has a child, is it appropriate that another child grows up in poverty because of the inadequacy of the parents? Thats probably a little glib and as a consiquence we do reward the parents too which is a shame. I'm not sure what the solution is about that.

MB

[Jonny69]

I have to agree with you Eldorado, I'm with you on all counts here :/

Then to add to those points how are we supposed to bring up a family, have any savings or put towards a pension? It's ridiculous frankly.

I'm not asking for much; I don't spend thousands on holidays or buy loads of stuff and I don't own a new car, nor will I be able to afford any of the above but how am I supposed to progress my life when I can't afford to? It's not even as if we're low earners, we're both on above average wages.

I'm sick of hearing people moaning how their mortgages have gone up because of the interest rate increase. Wow it's gone up from £550 a month to nearly £600 per month. Any idea what I'd do to have a mortgage that low? You're laughing frankly, no wonder you can afford the kids, their clothes and toys and your new cars, holidays and flatscreen tellies and your pension package. If I were to move next door tomorrow I doubt I'd get that place for less than £1200 per month and that's all the money gone every month, nothing left over.

So what am I actually working so hard for if I can't increase my quality of life now OR later? Sure I could get that mortgage but then I can't have any furniture or a new boiler when it goes bang, or a cooker, or a bathroom suite or a bed for that matter.

Life in this country stinks at the moment.

[Desmo]

I'm partly in agreement. I think the taxation as it stands isn't too bad, but I do feel it is being mispent a lot of the time. But that's another full debate in itself.

Picking up on what Jonny says, I feel the same with regards to having a family and saving for our future. With a large mortgage, how are people supposed to start a family. I'd love to have kids right now but I haven't a clue how we'd be able to afford to, especially if Sinead wants to give up work. The current housing market has really taken a toll on millions of people's financial situation...it doesn't bode too well for the future IMO.

[Matblack]

The problem with the housing thing is supply and demand though isn't it?

I agree that house prices are too high but whats the solution? If theres a house price crash then a lot of people are going to get screwed, people have been taking out loans they can't afford for far too long, if prices come down and interests rates go up more than a few percent then there will a ton of homes repossessed.

Ideally I suppose the housing market levels out and wages go up to compensate

But these prices didn't go up on their own people have an urge to move they throw everything they have at the mortgage rather than settle for homes which are adequte and prices spiral and new buyers find it hard/ impossible to get on the ladder Thats not good and taxes compound that but they are a additonal irritant rather than a symptom of the problem.

MB